Multiple Controllers Reacting To Each Other...?

[Migraine]

was reading this thread:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=24112681

 

over at Gamespot and this quote caught my eye...

 

"To be honest, I was expecting the Revolution controller to have an even more unique form, so I was initially disappointed. However, that quickly disappeared. With good use of the expansion terminal, isn't it possible to make, for instance, a versus shooting game without the use of the monitor, where the fight is through the controller alone? I feel that it is a great controller that can inspire many ideas, even aside from videogames."

 

If the console can detect the exact position of multiple controllers, then i suppose it could calculate the position of each controller in relation to each other controller... yeah?

 

Could we be running round our houses playing a simple version of Lazar Quest while the rev ticks away downstairs in the living room tallying up the scores? Maybe this is something Nintendo have been playing with already. it certainly fits with the idea of moving away from the tradition of sitting in front of a screen with a controller...

 

Anyway, just thought it'd be interesting to talk about the possibilities of interaction just between multiple controllers

[Fierce_LiNk]

Haha, i'd love to be able to play Lazer Quest in the house like that. Interesting ideas. I'm not completely sure if the idea is possible though, and won't things like the range of the controller come into account?

[Nick]

You should also not that the controllers have sensors on the front of them, which are detected by devices placed either side of the televsion set. This is what gives the controller 3D control.

 

It'd be great if it were possible, but I don't think that it will be.

[Gaijin von Snikbah]

Nay the Revo controller doesnt need to be pointed at the sensor to work. There is only one sensor last time I checked. There isnt the same range as the Wavebird though.

[RuneSP]

now add a helmet to each person, some sort of "3d-scanner" which before the game scans the entire house trough and creates an identical 3d world, just with the "IRL-objects", walls etc being replaced with a cool game environment and then u can for instance play real life CS maaan that would be cool... =D

[Nick]

Nay the Revo controller doesnt need to be pointed at the sensor to work. There is only one sensor last time I checked. There isnt the same range as the Wavebird though.

 

You abviously didn't check well enough. The sensor is quite visible, and, although it is unknown what it is, it mimicks the appearence of old type IR remote controls for televisions/VCRs etc. I would assume that from the sensor, however, that the signals will almost certainly by light electromagnetic waves (invisible light), rather than radio electromagentic waves, which are what wireless networks and phone signals work on.

 

As for the other part, Nintendo has said that two sensors, to be placed at each side of the television set, are required to track the actions of the Revolution controller.

 

You might not need to have the device pointed at the sensors, but you will enevitably need to be in the same room so that any light signal can be detected.

[Shorty]

I dunno... you can already pick up laser-quest style toys from toys 'r' us for £20 for 10 year olds. I think I grew out of wanting to do that a long time ago.

[revcube]

I thought of this ages ago,but didn't mention it in hopes of it coming true.

[SpinesN]

Got a link for the sensors on the sides of the TV thing?

[Nick]

It's on IGN, I'll go have a look now...

 

EDIT:

 

Here we go, from the TGS in September;

 

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651301p1.html

 

After reading it once again, I am almost certain you now have to be in the same room, and movement is detected by invisible light rather than radio waves.

[Pestneb]

It's on IGN, I'll go have a look now...

 

EDIT:

 

Here we go, from the TGS in September;

 

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651301p1.html

 

After reading it once again, I am almost certain you now have to be in the same room, and movement is detected by invisible light rather than radio waves.

 

invisible light...

so would this be IR, microwaves, radiowaves? or UV, x-rays, gamma rays?

or literally like a regular torch/laser pointer, just with VERY weak light so we can't actually see it with our eyes? :S

[Nick]

invisible light...

so would this be IR, microwaves, radiowaves? or UV, x-rays, gamma rays?

or literally like a regular torch/laser pointer, just with VERY weak light so we can't actually see it with our eyes? :S

 

Well, radio waves are not light, just as x-rays or alpha, beta or gamma rays are not.

 

Invisible light is in the Infra Red and Ultra Violet (bluetooth) region. I would assume it will use one of these forms.

[SpinesN]

Correct me if I am wrong but blue tooth is not light...

Also thanks for the link

 

Edit:

Bluetooth uses raido waves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth

The protocol operates in the license-free ISM band at 2.45 GHz. In order to avoid interfering with other protocols which use the 2.45 GHz band, the Bluetooth protocol divides the band into 79 channels (each 1 MHz wide) and changes channels up to 1600 times per second. Implementations with versions 1.1 and 1.2 reach speeds of 723.1 kbit/s. Version 2.0 implementations feature Bluetooth Enhanced Data Rate (EDR), and thus reach 2.1 Mbit/s. Technically version 2.0 devices have a higher power consumption, but the three times faster rate reduces the transmission times, effectively reducing consumption to half that of 1.x devices (assuming equal traffic load).

[Nick]

Actually, bluetooth is light, it is ultra violet light. Why they called it bluetooth, I don't know.

 

All electromagnetic waves have wavelengths, and thus frequencies, even light. That's why there are different colours of light, as each colour has a different wavelength.

 

Electromagnetic Waves incorporate visible light, invisible light, radio waves, microwaves, other forms of radiation.

 

The spectrum is like this;

[SternJohn]

controllers reacting to each other?

hmm.. any chance of 4 controllers coming together and morphing power rangers style into a giant robot like thing and then fighting games for you a bit like R.O.B for the new age.

awesome!

[Pestneb]

Well, radio waves are not light, just as x-rays or alpha, beta or gamma rays are not.

 

Invisible light is in the Infra Red and Ultra Violet (bluetooth) region. I would assume it will use one of these forms.

 

ok... physics must be rusty, what is the definition of light? as in what makes radiowaves non light, where as IR is light?

[mike-zim]

You abviously didn't check well enough. The sensor is quite visible, and, although it is unknown what it is, it mimicks the appearence of old type IR remote controls for televisions/VCRs etc. I would assume that from the sensor, however, that the signals will almost certainly by light electromagnetic waves (invisible light), rather than radio electromagentic waves, which are what wireless networks and phone signals work on.

 

As for the other part, Nintendo has said that two sensors, to be placed at each side of the television set, are required to track the actions of the Revolution controller.

 

You might not need to have the device pointed at the sensors, but you will enevitably need to be in the same room so that any light signal can be detected.

 

 

the controller does not need to be poited at anything. the reason for the strip infront like a tv remote i have no idea. it was a proto type. the reason for sensors on the TV would be to detect where the controler is in comparison to the tv. otherwise there would be inconsistancies with different size TV's. also when playing nes and snes game the controller would be turned on its side, likely to have the "remote strip" covered by your hand.

 

now with an addon to the basic controller they could be used in this way. instead of them sending info about their possition in relation to the tv they will be sending info about their relation to eachother. this addon could incorporate a small screen big enough for a number to be displayed for kill counts etc.

 

so it is very plausable and exciting.

[Nick]

the controller does not need to be poited at anything. the reason for the strip infront like a tv remote i have no idea. it was a proto type. the reason for sensors on the TV would be to detect where the controler is in comparison to the tv. otherwise there would be inconsistancies with different size TV's. also when playing nes and snes game the controller would be turned on its side, likely to have the "remote strip" covered by your hand.

 

now with an addon to the basic controller they could be used in this way. instead of them sending info about their possition in relation to the tv they will be sending info about their relation to eachother. this addon could incorporate a small screen big enough for a number to be displayed for kill counts etc.

 

so it is very plausable and exciting.

 

I never said it needed to be pointed at anything, I said it needed to be in the same room. Point a remote with fresh batteries away from a televsion. Press a button. In many cases, the device will work, because a flash of infra red light lights up the entire room.

 

Second, I KNOW that the sensors are there to detect the position of the controller, I SAID that. In terms of different television sizes, it will all be determined by trigonomotry. Why? because there are two sensors and a controller. You only need three points to detect depth and position. So it doesn't matter how far apart the sensors are placed, so long as they are in the same room. Which validates my second point. Controllers will not be able to interact directly with each other, because they do not have the motion sensors of the Revolution, in order to detect depth and position. You need at least two. Each controller only has one. The best that can be done is sending information to and from the Revolution itself in orderr to detect the position of other controllers, which is possible.

 

Finally, I never said that IR WOULD be used as the transmission medium, I just said that that is what I most likely think it will be. And I still feel that way. You don't whack a light detector strip on a controller for looks, it has a purpose.

 

In answer to Pestneb. I don't know the official definition of light. I don't think there is a single wavelength value at which it is determined, but according to my physics teacher, physicists have the general perception that electromagnetic waves between and including Infra Red and Ultra Violet are classified as the light spectrum.

[Demuwan]

To clear up all this invisble light IR crap. It is confirmed that the controller uses bluetooth.

[MunKy]

To clear up all this invisble light IR crap. It is confirmed that the controller uses bluetooth.

 

Thank you, I thought I read somewhere that it would be bluetooth. All this stuff confused me. Will it interfere with my phone? Thats what I want to know.

[DCK]

Bluetooth devices' range can reach up to 400 metres, so 50-100 metres should be possible if they want to spare the battery. They'll probably only use infrared for on and off, because infrared sucks.

[YenRug]

Actually, bluetooth is light, it is ultra violet light. Why they called it bluetooth, I don't know.

 

All electromagnetic waves have wavelengths, and thus frequencies, even light. That's why there are different colours of light, as each colour has a different wavelength.

 

Electromagnetic Waves incorporate visible light, invisible light, radio waves, microwaves, other forms of radiation.

 

The spectrum is like this;

 

Bluetooth is not any form of light, it is classed as a radiowave technology, i.e. it falls in the radio part of that spectrum diagram. That diagram is of the Electromagnetic spectrum, not the visible/invisible light spectrum, simply because the word spectrum is used does not mean that they are the same.

[Migraine]

now with an addon to the basic controller they could be used in this way. instead of them sending info about their possition in relation to the tv they will be sending info about their relation to eachother. this addon could incorporate a small screen big enough for a number to be displayed for kill counts etc.

 

I don't reckon you'd need an add on to make this work, If the console knows the exact position of each controller then it could, from that information, create various effects to occur in accordance to the position/distance/orientation of one controller in relation to another... an example (if a bit of an ott one):

 

Two players hold their controller in one hand as if it was the handle to a sword. The console superimposes a virtual 24 inch blade coming out of the top of each controller. When the air above the two controllers 'collides' then the console would register that the virtual blades have struck each other and make a "STINNT!!" noise... or even (if only) use some kind of force feedback to make the controllers bounce back.

 

Tadaa! virtual fencing, kinda.

 

[Edit - well, tacked onto the end]

I always presumed that the Rev controller would communicate with the console in the same way that the wavebird does... in which case you definitely don't have to be in the same room for it to work (alcohol + gamecube = trying to play monkeyball by getting someone to shout directions to you while you sit downstairs and play, but anyway).

I thought the controller only used the two sensors to confirm it's position in relation to the television should it be required... and the dark IR looking thing on the end of the controller? dunno, maybe to enhance light gun-style capabilities?

[Nick]

Bluetooth is not any form of light, it is classed as a radiowave technology, i.e. it falls in the radio part of that spectrum diagram. That diagram is of the Electromagnetic spectrum, not the visible/invisible light spectrum, simply because the word spectrum is used does not mean that they are the same.

 

Actually, light is an electromagnetic wave.

[YenRug]

Actually, light is an electromagnetic wave.

 

And where exactly did I say it wasn't? Oh, that's right, I didn't! Please try and not be picky about the lack of using 100% precise terms, on my part, to justify some apparent misunderstanding, on your part.