Wikileaks - End of the World - lol

[Serebii]

They're also the most egocentric to the point where they rewrite history to look like they win everything. Here's some examples;

 

Vietnam - A significant chunk of the US believe they actually won that way

World War II - They are taught that without them, we would have been screwed. Yes, they helped, yes they probably sped things up, but the Battle of Britain was won months before they joined the war.

 

They need their ego to be taken down a notch. I'm not saying they're useless, but they need to realise that they are not god and that their "manifest destiny" is a load of bull

[Iun]

"Vietnam - A significant chunk of the US believe they actually won that way"

Realistically speaking, they neither won nor lost. It was a failure as they had to accept a negotiated settlement, but a success in that it reassured the Thai government and gave the Indonesian army the impetus to fight the Communists in their own territory.

 

 

"World War II - They are taught that without them, we would have been screwed. Yes, they helped, yes they probably sped things up, but the Battle of Britain was won months before they joined the war."

 

But that wasn't the whole story, was it? The Battle Of Britain lasted forseveral months, and was an air war to establish superiority over the British skies. The land war was much harder to win, and could not have been won without an injection of manpower and industry - an injection the US provided.

 

If you look at the correspondence between FDR and Churchill, the strong impression is that FDR would have joined earlier but for the Isolationist sentiments in Congress. Now, while they did not join in purely altruistically, you cannot but argue that their intervention turned the tide. Must good results always have good intentions behind them?

 

Furthermore, Churchill himself said at the news that America would join the war "Thank god, we have won."

"They need their ego to be taken down a notch. I'm not saying they're useless, but they need to realise that they are not god and that their "manifest destiny" is a load of bull"

There's no doubt that their egos have to take much blame, but then... should people die for the sake of someone's ego?

[Serebii]

I'm not saying that they didn't have a hand in it, I'm not here to write a massive essay on the benefits of the US inclusion in World War II. What I'm saying is how the American propaganda machine warps things to make themselves seem even more important than they are.

 

Also, nobody would die from this. Again, you're going to extremes.

[Jonnas]

"Vietnam - A significant chunk of the US believe they actually won that way"

Realistically speaking, they neither won nor lost. It was a failure as they had to accept a negotiated settlement, but a success in that it reassured the Thai government and gave the Indonesian army the impetus to fight the Communists in their own territory.

 

Many Americans who believe they won the war with Vietnam don't even know or care why the war existed in the first place.

 

But that's where the problem resides, Americans are deluded, ignorant, and proud of it. The reason their ego needs to be taken down a notch is because, as world leaders, their populace should not be this thick*

 

*(Figuratively. Literally is another issue altogether )

 

"World War II - They are taught that without them, we would have been screwed. Yes, they helped, yes they probably sped things up, but the Battle of Britain was won months before they joined the war."

 

But that wasn't the whole story, was it? The Battle Of Britain lasted forseveral months, and was an air war to establish superiority over the British skies. The land war was much harder to win, and could not have been won without an injection of manpower and industry - an injection the US provided.

 

If you look at the correspondence between FDR and Churchill, the strong impression is that FDR would have joined earlier but for the Isolationist sentiments in Congress. Now, while they did not join in purely altruistically, you cannot but argue that their intervention turned the tide. Must good results always have good intentions behind them?

 

Furthermore, Churchill himself said at the news that America would join the war "Thank god, we have won."

 

The USA was valuable to winning that war, just like the USSR, and many other factors.

At the same time, there are Americans who believe the war started with Pearl Harbour.

 

Which, once again, is related to their ego problem. They lived in isolation for so long, their mentality of "other countries don't matter" is still ingrained in their heads (this, thankfully, is gradually decreasing, at least)

 

"They need their ego to be taken down a notch. I'm not saying they're useless, but they need to realise that they are not god and that their "manifest destiny" is a load of bull"

There's no doubt that their egos have to take much blame, but then... should people die for the sake of someone's ego?

 

No one will die due to Wikileaks. I don't want a revolution, or the fall of Western society, and neither do the people behind this leak.

They just want to make sure that Americans, Europeans, and others realize the US shouldn't be held in some sort of untouchable pedestal.

 

If the US is to take the role of a responsible and effective leader in today's world and society, they're going to need to be more humble than this. Mostly in their population's mentality (which, in turn, shapes the decisions its leaders take), and this is just one of many baby steps needed to reach that point.

[EddieColeslaw]

Here are the released cables:

 

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/

[Serebii]

Today, America learns that actions have consequences

[Dante]

Here are the released cables:

 

http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/

 

Only 219 release so far out of 251,287.

[Noodleman]

They're also the most egocentric to the point where they rewrite history to look like they win everything. Here's some examples;

 

Vietnam - A significant chunk of the US believe they actually won that way

World War II - They are taught that without them, we would have been screwed. Yes, they helped, yes they probably sped things up, but the Battle of Britain was won months before they joined the war.

 

They need their ego to be taken down a notch. I'm not saying they're useless, but they need to realise that they are not god and that their "manifest destiny" is a load of bull

 

Have literally never met an American who believed either of those points. I actually think it is a lazy stereotype created by Europeans.

[Emasher]

People who actually believe those stereotypes about Americans need to stop watching interviews from tea party rallies, etc. There are tons of Americans who actually do know something about history or politics, or whatever else. Unfortunately its the less educated folk who tend to be more vocal about it.

[Diageo]

Knowledge of history doesn't equate to your worth as a person.

[Serebii]

Have literally never met an American who believed either of those points. I actually think it is a lazy stereotype created by Europeans.

Unfortunately, I have.

 

I know that not all Americans are like that, one of my very best friends is American and isn't like that at all. She is one of the smartest people I know.

 

People who actually believe those stereotypes about Americans need to stop watching interviews from tea party rallies, etc. There are tons of Americans who actually do know something about history or politics, or whatever else. Unfortunately its the less educated folk who tend to be more vocal about it.

If that was a jibe at me, it fails. I am probably one of the most educated people you would ever meet.

 

Modesty? Pah.

[Jonnas]

Knowledge of history doesn't equate to your worth as a person.

 

No, but it can contribute. If the Americans are raised believing their country has always been the epitome of freedom and justice, and an example for the rest of the world to follow, it can be said that what they've been told about history, culture and geography influences their opinion on worldly matters.

 

People who actually believe those stereotypes about Americans need to stop watching interviews from tea party rallies, etc. There are tons of Americans who actually do know something about history or politics, or whatever else. Unfortunately its the less educated folk who tend to be more vocal about it.

 

I might have exaggerated, but the uneducated folk can easily outnumber the educated. Considering those people are electing their president, the mentality within the country is an important thing.

[Serebii]

So, Hillary Clinton is claiming this is an attack on the world, even though she's caught out on it for doing illegal stuff by requesting passwords, credit card details etc. for various UN representatives.

[Emasher]

If that was a jibe at me, it fails. I am probably one of the most educated people you would ever meet.

 

Modesty? Pah.

 

It wasn't, it was more just a general statement.

 

 

I might have exaggerated, but the uneducated folk can easily outnumber the educated. Considering those people are electing their president, the mentality within the country is an important thing.

 

That's true, but the uneducated tend to have less influence per person.

 

All countries have less educated people and they tend to base their opinions on those of the more vocal educated people.

 

The real problem is that people like Glenn Beck, and their conspiracy theories have way to much influence at the moment, the best way to solve the problem would be to stress getting information from multiple sources and not believing everything you hear on the internet/on TV, in their school system.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Emasher

[Serebii]

It wasn't, it was more just a general statement.

Ok then. I apologise for my arrogance though. It's one of my more unattractive qualities.

[Jonnas]

That's true, but the uneducated tend to have less influence per person.

 

All countries have less educated people and they tend to base their opinions on those of the more vocal educated people.

 

The real problem is that people like Glenn Beck, and their conspiracy theories have way to much influence at the moment, the best way to solve the problem would be to stress getting information from multiple sources and not believing everything you hear on the internet/on TV, in their school system.

 

Yes, people like Glenn Beck still have influence, and that speaks something about what their audience finds acceptable.

And not nearly enough is done to prevent people from believing the first thing they hear on these subjects.

 

Which, of course, brings us to my point: if those uneducated people could at least stop believing that the US is the only place that matters on earth, much of the bad publicity the US gets overseas could be mitigated, and even other flaws on their own society could be corrected.

[jayseven]

I guess the argument here is that through these leaks we can have a more unified 'West' that, once past this dilemma we can hope to have greater trust and faith not only in our own nation but in others and their leaders.

 

While these documents won't change how we view the danger zones of the world, they won't necessarily hinder our relationships in the long terms.

 

That is, unless we start going "hmmm... so what about those top secret files?" But hey, I'm all positive about this now

[Dante]

Interesting stuff about China and North Korea in these leaks.

[Dyson]

Interesting stuff about China and North Korea in these leaks.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[Emasher]

That is, unless we start going "hmmm... so what about those top secret files?" But hey, I'm all positive about this now

 

Unlike "Secret" files, Top secret files are made available on a "need to know" basis. If someone with Top Secret clearance decided to come forward, we would only get very limited information.

[Dante]

Thanks for sharing.

 

Guardians archive on it can be found here.

[Debug Mode]

Just release the whole damn thing on torrent already

 

Jeez, there must be thousands of things more interesting than the head line "Russia - Mafia state", well thanks for the obvious.

 

I love Wikileaks and all now, but this is undermining my confidence in them, in the past they released it all at once, but this method just seems like they're trying to orchestrate some thing.

 

Also, Julian Assange is now on Interpols most wanted list. For sex offence charges. I thought that list was reserved for terrorists, not crimes that were unfounded and resurfaced to desperately trap him for capture.

[Iun]

Do you know what, this hasn't done half the damage it could have done.

 

And what I'm liking is the reaction in China - classic doublethink:

 

America Encourages Allies To Make War!

 

Reaction in China:

 

"Oh! Wicked Imperialists! We know every white person has blood on their hands! Good for Wikileaks! Thank you for bringing this irrefutable truth to light! Long live Julian Assange!

China Derides North Korea as "Spoiled Child"

 

Reaction in China:

 

"Do these Wikileaks come from a reliable source? Is their any irrefutable proof that these are not just made up? Julian Assange should keep his nose out of other people's business and stop spreading lies!"

[McPhee]

Just release the whole damn thing on torrent already

 

Jeez, there must be thousands of things more interesting than the head line "Russia - Mafia state", well thanks for the obvious.

 

I love Wikileaks and all now, but this is undermining my confidence in them, in the past they released it all at once, but this method just seems like they're trying to orchestrate some thing.

 

Also, Julian Assange is now on Interpols most wanted list. For sex offence charges. I thought that list was reserved for terrorists, not crimes that were unfounded and resurfaced to desperately trap him for capture.

 

I guess the idea is to allow maximum exposure for each topic in the press - releasing the whole lot at once would keep a lot of big things out of the headlines.

 

TBH I've found the US reaction more interesting than the leaks themselves. Since they started the government has been running a fine line between limiting damage, protecting security and tearing up human rights, the first amendment and various national and international laws. It could be very embarrassing if the next bout of leaks focuses on the US governments actions in November/December 2010, there's definitely been some foul play at hand.

[Emasher]

Bump:

 

-Wikileaks has released a list of all facilities deemed crucial to US security.

-Anonymous has begun DDoS attacks on Paypal and other websites that have dropped support for Wikileaks and are also planning protests in london

-Julian Assange has turned himself in in London.

-He was denied Bail.

-The courts are currently trying to decide weather to extradite him to Sweden or not.

-He still faces no charges related to the cable releases.

 

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/12/07/uk.wikileaks.investigation/index.html?hpt=T2