The Politics Thread

[fex]

You're missing the point entirely. If a women does an easier job than a man and gets paid less, fair enough. If a women works for less time than a man in the same job, but their salary is proportionally equal, fair enough. However, the problem is, hour for hour, in the same job, women get paid less.

 

 

 

I think you'll find you're talking about the very vocal but also very few female supremests. They are not feminists.

 

I wasn't comparing how much males / females get paid for doing the same job. I was looking at overall men are on high wages.

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Suzuki Tl1000S

Edited April 28, 2011 by fex

[McPhee]

Mikey, i think the problem here is that you taint all "feminists" with the same view. A feminist, buy definition, is someone who wants women to have equal rights to men. Anyone who wants women to have equal rights to men is therefore a feminist.

 

The problem you have is with feminist extremist groups, who do exist and actually have quite a lot of members. On this point, fair enough. They are evil witches who should be burned at the stake

 

You're missing the point entirely. If a women does an easier job than a man and gets paid less, fair enough. If a women works for less time than a man in the same job, but their salary is proportionally equal, fair enough. However, the problem is, hour for hour, in the same job, women get paid less.

 

Sauce? I've never had any experience of this, if someone is being paid more than someone else there is usually a reason. It could be that one party is more qualified, has more experience or has simply been at the company longer. Bare in mind that you're salary can fall if you take a career gap, which does include leaving to have a child.

[The fish]

Really? Pandagon and feministing are 2 of the most well known feminist blogs on the internet.

 

Let me put it really, really simply:

 

A person who thinks men and women should be treated equally is a feminist.. People who think all men are evil, etc. are not feminists. They are female superioritists.

 

The people you call scum are either not feminists or you are a sexist misogynist. It's very simple.

[Mikey]

So a couple want to have a child, the woman has to have time off to have the child and look after it. The current law allows women to have alot more time off in maternity leave than it does for the male to have off in paternity leave. Therefore in order for the child to get looked after, there is more chance the woman will be able to get the time off (paid) than the man. Again this is isn't fair and certainly isn't equal.

 

So thats where the problem starts, already there is an increase in 'house husbands' and if the law was changed so it were more 'equal' so men or women could take up to a year off to look after the baby, then perhaps we would see a decrease in the mount of women dropping out of their careers.

 

 

SO BEFORE RANTING AND RAVING SAYING DO SOME FUCKIN' HOMEWORK AND USE WHATEVER PART OF YOUR BRAIN WORKS TO LOOK INTO THE REASONS WHY.

 

 

 

Additional Info

 

 

Statutory maternity leave is for 52 weeks

 

How much paternity leave can you take?

You can take either one or two weeks. You can't take odd days off, and if you take two weeks they must be taken together.

 

So basically, women shoot theirselves in the foot by getting pregnant, and businesses are doing what's best in their own best interest? The woman has the choice not to get pregnant, she shouldn't even getting paid while she isn't working anyway. Thanks for proving my point.

 

Let me put it really, really simply:

 

A person who thinks men and women should be treated equally is a feminist.. People who think all men are evil, etc. are not feminists. They are female superioritists.

 

The people you call scum are either not feminists or you are a sexist misogynist. It's very simple.

 

You try telling the feminists who declare themselves feminists, they are not.

 

The type of feminists you talk about, are basically ifeminists, and are part of groups like the IWF. Members of the IWF even admit theirselves the pay gap is a load of horse shit. I'll try and find links if you don't believe me.

 

By the way, like I've said before, there are plenty of women who hate feminists too. I guess they're just sexist and misogynistic too.

[fex]

So basically, women shoot theirselves in the foot by getting pregnant, and businesses are doing what's best in their own best interest? The woman has the choice not to get pregnant, she shouldn't even getting paid while she isn't working anyway. Thanks for proving my point.

 

Fuck me, you are simple.

 

Of course the fucking woman has a choice not to get pregnant. Perhaps the couple want to have a child but have the man stay at home and have the woman's equivalent off in paternity leave, but can't because of the law.

 

Ok next time you ring in sick, or happen to be injured from work for 3/4 months with a broken leg or whatever. Your saying you shouldn't get SSP? So, you could effectively not have enough money to pay your bills / mortgage and have the stress of being kicked out your own home because you cannot work.

 

Do me and everyone else a favor and FUCK OFF with your idiocy.

________

MOLLE SHOTGUN SCABBARD UNIVERSAL SLING TAN

Edited April 28, 2011 by fex

[The fish]

You try telling the feminists who declare themselves feminists, they are not.

 

The type of feminists you talk about, are basically ifeminists, and are part of groups like the IWF. Members of the IWF even admit theirselves the pay gap is a load of horse shit. I'll try and find links if you don't believe me.

 

By the way, like I've said before, there are plenty of women who hate feminists too. I guess they're just sexist and misogynistic too.

 

Again, you're missing the point. I've never encountered a women who was not a feminist, regardless if they think the pay gap exists or not. People who say they are feminists, and yet are very anti-male are not feminists, and they're (obviously) giving feminism a bad name.

 

We seem to not be seeing eye to eye. You are talking about people who call themselves feminists, yet are very anti-men. I, however am talking about people who want men and women to be treated equally.

 

Call man-haters whatever you hell you want, if you wish, I'd just rather you didn't give feminists a bad name in the process.

[Mikey]

Fuck me, you are simple.

 

Of course the fucking woman has a choice not to get pregnant. Perhaps the couple want to have a child but have the man stay at home and have the woman's equivalent off in paternity leave, but can't because of the law.

 

Ok next time you ring in sick, or happen to be injured from work for 3/4 months with a broken leg or whatever. Your saying you shouldn't get SSP? So, you could effectively not have enough money to pay your bills / mortgage and have the stress of being kicked out your own home because you cannot work.

 

Do me and everyone else a favor and FUCK OFF with your idiocy.

 

Sickness isn't a choice, pregnancy is. She shouldn't be get paid at all.

 

Sit down.

 

Taking care of children is naturally a woman's job anyway. And before you screech sexist at that, only an idiot would demean such an important job, which nature gave to women.

[The fish]

Taking care of children is naturally a woman's job anyway. And before you screech sexist at that, only an idiot would demean such an important job, which nature gave to women.

 

Before anyone else does, I'm going to have to say "seahorses".

[Mikey]

Again, you're missing the point. I've never encountered a women who was not a feminist, regardless if they think the pay gap exists or not. People who say they are feminists, and yet are very anti-male are not feminists, and they're (obviously) giving feminism a bad name.

 

We seem to not be seeing eye to eye. You are talking about people who call themselves feminists, yet are very anti-men. I, however am talking about people who want men and women to be treated equally.

 

Call man-haters whatever you hell you want, if you wish, I'd just rather you didn't give feminists a bad name in the process.

 

Fine, I'll just leave it at that. If you want to go by the dictionary's definition, fair enough. I'll go by the whole "actions speak louder than words" people who call theirselves feminists.

[The fish]

I'll go by the whole "actions speak louder than words" people who call theirselves feminists.

 

I'm with McPhee on this one. People who call themselves feminists but promote hate against men are indeed in need of a good burning.

[Mikey]

Before anyone else does, I'm going to have to say "seahorses".

 

 

Yes, but we're talking about human's. The female has been designed to take care of young, through breast feeding and nuturing. It's a very important job.

 

I'm with McPhee on this one. People who call themselves feminists but promote hate against men are indeed in need of a good burning.

 

I don't really consider you a feminist, more of an egalitarian, which I don't have a problem with. I don't really consider ifeminists feminists either.

[The fish]

Yes, but we're talking about human's. The female has been designed to take care of young, through breast feeding and nuturing. It's a very important job.

 

True, but if the father want to do it and the women wants to work, it should be allowed in the same way. Also, father figures!

[fex]

Sickness isn't a choice, pregnancy is. She shouldn't be get paid at all.

 

Sit down.

 

Taking care of children is naturally a woman's job anyway. And before you screech sexist at that, only an idiot would demean such an important job, which nature gave to women.

 

Oh shit don't preach to me about nature or instinct because as humans we have the ability to think past our natural thoughts.

 

So what if 'naturally' a woman's job is to take care of child, parts of society only think that because she is the one that gives birth to it and produces milk, which isn't required any more (although is the best way). We live in a society where either sex is perfectly capable of looking after a child, therefore the couple should have the choice of who to look after it.

 

 

Lol you beat me to seahorses. So I'll say penguins. The fathers have a very important role.

 

Oh and why would you not want to allow somebody to live, whilst looking after a baby? Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to live off one wage. So should people just not have children because they cannot afford to have a few months off work?

________

Expert insurance

Edited April 28, 2011 by fex

[The fish]

I don't really consider you a feminist, more of an egalitarian, which I don't have a problem with. I don't really consider ifeminists feminists either.

 

Feminism, by the very definition of the word, a type of egalitarianism. However, this is now turning into a definition war, and, well, I've already shown that dictionaries agree with me, so it's futile. :wink:

[Mikey]

I don't think either men or women should be paid on maternity leave. They both make the choice to have a child. If anything, the whole women being able to have more time off is discrimination against the man. Also, the woman has the choice not to have the time off surely? Either way, even ifeminists have declared the pay gap as bullshit, which is what this is all about anyway..

[The fish]

If anything, the whole women being able to have more time off is discrimination against the man.

 

It is, and is one of several policies in need of fixing. Another of these is the fact the only people that you can still legally assault in the country, apart from in self-defence or defence of others, are your own children.

[fex]

I don't think either men or women should be paid on maternity leave. They both make the choice to have a child. If anything, the whole women being able to have more time off is discrimination against the man. Also, the woman has the choice not to have the time off surely? Either way, even ifeminists have declared the pay gap as bullshit, which is what this is all about anyway..

 

Yes the woman has the choice not to have the time off, but the man doesn't have the choice thats the problem.

________

Medical marijuana patients

Edited April 28, 2011 by fex

[Mikey]

Well, as long as it isn't brutal assault with intent to injure, I think parents should be left alone to raise their kids as they see fit. I'm really not a fan of the state poking their nose in to people's personal lives for many many reasons. (For the record, I don't think any parent should smack their child, but whatever)

 

Again, I've really gotta go to bed.

[fex]

Sickness isn't a choice, pregnancy is.

 

And for the people that accidentally get pegnant? For kids that aren't planned? They should get no help, it wasn't the couples choice she fell pregnant. And don't say yes it is because she opened her legs. Not all pregnancy is a choice.

 

And why shouldn't people get money for being off pregnant? There only getting money back they've paid in tax anyway*.

 

*Chavs have not been considered, everybody knows they have failed in life and the only way to feel important is to have a kid, or 4. Just so they can get a council house and free monies.

________

The cigar boss

Edited April 28, 2011 by fex

[Mikey]

But she DID make the choice. She opened their legs, and unless she didn't know sex results in pregnancy, then she is at fault. If the pregnany was a result of rape, and the woman wanted to keep the baby anyway, then I'd say fine.

 

Either way, none of this matters like I've already said. Even ifeminists admit the pay gap myth is horse shit.

 

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/tenmyths.php

 

2. Myth: Women earn 75 cents for every dollar a man earns.

 

Fact: The 75 cent figure is terribly misleading. This statistic is a snapshot of all current full-time workers. It does not consider relevant factors like length of time in the workplace, education, occupation, and number of hours worked per week. (The experience gap is particularly large between older men and women in the workplace.) When economists do the proper controls, the so-called gender wage gap narrows to the point of vanishing.

 

(Essential reading: Women's Figures: An Illustrated Guide to the Economic Progress of Women in America, by Diana Furchtgott-Roth and Christine Stolba, published by the Independent Women's Forum and the American Enterprise Institute, Washington, D.C. 2000.)

[MoogleViper]

I'd like to offer my views on feminism and be prepared to be raped by all of you. (metaphorically and maybe literally)

 

Personally I wouldn't consider myself a feminist. Now I do believe that men and women should have equal rights but they aren't equal. I don't believe the pay gap exists (if it does it is certainly nto to the degree that "feminists" shout about.) Another reason I wouldn't call myself a feminist is the word itself is sexist. Would women join the movement if it was called masculinist? I think not. Changing the word to "womyn" is a complete joke. I know that the definition of feminist is about equality but as Mikey has stated many people that call themselves feminists do not want equality and are female supremists. And they are the ones that shout the loudest. If you are a true feminist then don't call yourself a feminist.

 

Also regarding the pay gap there are many things in work that are sexist towards men that feminists don't complain about. Correct me if I'm wrong but to be a firefighter or in the army the weight (as in lifting) requirement is less for women than in men.

 

I'm all for equal rights. But I won't call myself a feminist. And I urge you lot to do the same. Yes it's unfair that you all get tarred with the same brush, but that's what happens. So don't let them tar you at all. Don't call yourselves feminists and then the female supremists will be isolated.

[Mikey]

People like fish and his sister need to call theirselves egalitarians, because that's what they are, I don't consider them feminists at all. Why tar yourself with such a dirty label as feminist?

 

Also, I don't think men and women are equal either, but they should have equal rights. Since I hate the state so much, I think "rights" and "laws" should be as limited as possible to give people more freedom. With the lack of state interfering, hierarchy will naturally come in to play more in personal relationships, and it'd promote order and stability in the family unit. Expecting everything to be equal is unreasonable.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=a41532d6-d4df-46a2-a784-f6499938f3b0&k=49786&p=1

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=a41532d6-d4df-46a2-a784-f6499938f3b0&k=49786&p=2

 

http://www.bennett.com/ptv/index.shtml

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=430702&in_page_id=1770

 

 

Be careful, brothers, this is what we face.