Cube Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 And to top it off Nintendo once again obscures timelines by contradicting OOT. How does it contradict OoT? If anything, it cleans up part of the timeline.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 20, 2007 Author Posted August 20, 2007 How does it contradict OoT? If anything, it cleans up part of the timeline. How? By adding 'a' Ganondorf who has the triforce of power, yet the sages knew nothing of it, since they called it "some divine prank". The sages in OOT most definitly knew Ganondorf was given the triforce piece. Because of this fact, this Ganondorf could not be the same as OOT's, but Nintendo provides no hard info to differentiate the two...Thats lazy.
Cube Posted August 20, 2007 Posted August 20, 2007 The sages in OOT most definitly knew Ganondorf was given the triforce piece. Because of this fact, this Ganondorf could not be the same as OOT's...But Nintendo fail to elaborate on what exactly is going on...Thats lazy. The Sages are totally different in TP. In fact, Link didn't even fight Gannondorf, didn't gather the sages. He went back in time and changed the timeline. When he went back in time, he managed to get Gannondorf imprisoned. A different set of sages (the Sages of Light) deal with him when Gannondorf in sentenced to death.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 When he went back in time, he managed to get Gannondorf imprisoned. A different set of sages (the Sages of Light) deal with him when Gannondorf in sentenced to death. ...According to you, it would be 100x better if Nintendo actually said/added this for all to know.
Cube Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 ...According to you, it would be 100x better if Nintendo actually said/added this for all to know. They did. Let me find the interview.
Zechs Merquise Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 It's more like saying Mars are lazy for not making 12 foot chocolate bars. lol, it's a bit silly, because we can all want games to be different. I wish Prime 2 had not had the ammo and just been a huge Aether and no dark world. I wish LoZ:TP had felt like you were a lone hero battling in a mighty raging war between good and evil rather than the world being threatened but the city looking great and no one caring! But both game sin question were still great. I wish Goldeneye on the N64 had another 20 levels, I wish for lots of things. But the developers aren't lazy just because they don;t meet every one of your wishes in every game produced.
Patch Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 "Be grateful"...Isn't that the epitome of Nintendo console owners mindset? Be grateful? Hah! Thats something a starving family would say when they are given some chump change on the street. This is a problem I see all over Nintendo-based forums; fans blinded by loyalty - fanboy/girlism. Most other gamers praise a game for what was good and scorn it for what was bad/weak, but a lot of Nintendo fans will lie to themselves and never admit a particular weakness present in Nintendo games. EVEN Miyamoto himself admitted how 'lacking' WW was. The only one who sees this as a 'problem' is you. Most people here like Nintendo. Some people here love them. If they didn't, they wouldn't be here. Now here's the logical progression from that: People who like something are more likely to talk positively about it. I'm sure every single person here can name one thing they didn't like about Wind Waker. But they can also name ten things they did like about it. So which are they more likely to talk about? Which are they more likely to *want* to talk about? Y'know, given that this is a Nintendo forum and all. By your logic it's also a 'problem' that a car forum generally discusses how great their cars are.
DCK Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 FFS King_V, there's no denying that games have faults. But thing is, sometimes things don't work out perfectly. Not every episode of Futurama is as good as the other, not every album by the Foo Fighters is as good as The Colour and the Shape and Mario Sunshine is not as good as Mario 64. Thing is, shit happens. Maybe some wrong decisions are made, there's a 'game designer's block' but to hell it's not laziness. You obviously don't understand what an intensive process it is to make games, how many design errors can be made... And when they occur, don't blame us for enjoying the good parts of a game.
Hellfire Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 King V don't talk about Zelda's storyline when you understand nothing about it. Zelda's stories are never in your face, you have to put the pieces together. That's why it rocks.
Jack_Thompson's_Wig Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 I think Aonuma and Shigsy don't actually give a toss about the storyline, they just put some crap together that very loosely links to previous games and involves the Triforce. If they wanted to make a huge story, they'd get in Kojima.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 King V don't talk about Zelda's storyline when you understand nothing about it. Zelda's stories are never in your face, you have to put the pieces together. That's why it rocks. ...Right. So we end with what? 50 different storyline theories? It would be much easier to just take the time to explain what the heck is going on in their games! Even if its just on NPC just saying one line. So for example, a question like "What happened to the Gerudo?" comes up with about 5 different answers, each believing their answer to be the correct one; this is great if you live in your own fantasyland where everything you say is fact...But I'd rather like the TRUE story from the people who actually created the storyline...Is that so much to ask? Asking to fill up their plot holes is too much of a request?
Hellfire Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 ...Right. So we end with what? 50 different storyline theories? It would be much easier to just take the time to explain what the heck is going on in their games! Even if its just on NPC just saying one line. So for example, a question like "What happened to the Gerudo?" comes up with about 5 different answers, each believing their answer to be the correct one; this is great if you live in your own fantasyland where everything you say is fact...But I'd rather like the TRUE story from the people who actually created the storyline...Is that so much to ask? Asking to fill up their plot holes is too much of a request? That's what's great about it! There are no plot holes and only two timelines, if you think a little it's not hard to get it. See what're you're really asking for is for something else than Zelda.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 FFS King_V, there's no denying that games have faults. But thing is, sometimes things don't work out perfectly. Not every episode of Futurama is as good as the other, not every album by the Foo Fighters is as good as The Colour and the Shape and Mario Sunshine is not as good as Mario 64. Thing is, shit happens. Maybe some wrong decisions are made, there's a 'game designer's block' but to hell it's not laziness. You obviously don't understand what an intensive process it is to make games, how many design errors can be made... And when they occur, don't blame us for enjoying the good parts of a game. Yup...But why are (mostly) Nintendo fans always too hard-headed to deny the faults?...Even when the CREATOR of the series comes out and ADMITS its faults! But I agree with you...But after such quality games as Link to the Past, ocarina of Time and Majora's mask, I only expect an improvement in overal quality, but I still find the latter N64 games as moreso playable and intriguing the WW and TP.
Cube Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 So for example, a question like "What happened to the Gerudo?" comes up with about 5 different answers, each believing their answer to be the correct one; this is great if you live in your own fantasyland where everything you say is fact...But I'd rather like the TRUE story from the people who actually created the storyline...Is that so much to ask? Asking to fill up their plot holes is too much of a request? Half the point is that it is largely open to speculation. The only official part of the timeline is: Timeline A) Zelda OoT (Adult) - Wind Waker - Phantom Hourglass Timeline B) Zelda OoT (Kid) - Majora's Mask - Twilight Princess. And with regards to the Gerudo...isn't it obvious? TP took place a long time after OoT. And in all that time, the only male Gerudo was imprisoned.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 The only one who sees this as a 'problem' is you.Most people here like Nintendo. Some people here love them. If they didn't, they wouldn't be here. Now here's the logical progression from that: People who like something are more likely to talk positively about it. I'm sure every single person here can name one thing they didn't like about Wind Waker. But they can also name ten things they did like about it. So which are they more likely to talk about? Which are they more likely to *want* to talk about? Y'know, given that this is a Nintendo forum and all. By your logic it's also a 'problem' that a car forum generally discusses how great their cars are. You know, I like my girlfriend, my parents and my siblings...But they do not come without 'faults', so I criticize these 'faults' in order for them to rise above them (where possible) and become better people. Can you HONESTLY not think of a better and much more enjoyable alternative than 'fishing' for the SACRED triforce pieces in WW? Since the pieces were in hyrule, wouldn't it be a much more exciting experience to hunt for these pieces in (old) Hyrule?...Thats not asking for much if Nintendo had the ability to make otherworlds featuring locations with notable differences. (ie frozen Zora Domain, shallow Lake Hylia). And with regards to the Gerudo...isn't it obvious? TP took place a long time after OoT. And in all that time, the only male Gerudo was imprisoned. Ah-ha! But it is said in OOT that gerudo females 'mate' with Hylians. You see? Thats not even the worst speculation, some have accounted the Gerudo as being the Twili...And it could all be cleared up with ONE measely sentence... I think Aonuma and Shigsy don't actually give a toss about the storyline' date=' they just put some crap together that very loosely links to previous games and involves the Triforce. If they wanted to make a huge story, they'd get in Kojima.[/quote'] I can't help but lean to this side of the table.
Cube Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 Ah-ha! But it is said in OOT that gerudo females 'mate' with Hylians. You see? Thats not even the worst speculation, some have accounted the Gerudo as being the Twili...And it could all be cleared up with ONE measely sentence... It said they try. And theres one half-Hylian, half-Gerudo in TP.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 theres one half-Hylian, half-Gerudo in TP. Says who? telma never told me anything about her Gerudo mother...I guess she must of had a secret conversation with you about it...In fado's House no-less XD. You see, the mere fact that OOT had those statues to give you even more information to throw away all this speculation just shows how lacking WW and TP are in terms of the story and added extras. ...And about that locked door. To my memory I have never witnessed a locked door in any Zelda game that NEVER opens during the course of the whole game...But most of you won't call this laziness, you will say something like; "The mystery of having a locked door was funnnnn!!! It made me come up with my own theory of what was inside!!! Yay!!!"...*sigh*
killer kirby Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 "Be grateful"...Isn't that the epitome of Nintendo console owners mindset? No thats more of a normal gamer who knows that a game can not be perfect. Be grateful? Hah! Thats something a starving family would say when they are given some chump change on the street. Yes and they are greatful, as like rich people who aren't greatful for anything and complains about not having enough money even though they have enough to live, kinda like you with games. This is a problem I see all over Nintendo-based forums; fans blinded by loyalty - fanboy/girlism. Most other gamers praise a game for what was good and scorn it for what was bad/weak evey bloody game has good and bads thats the end of the story. I there are things I didn't like about windwaker it could have had more land and could have been a lot harder but hey compare that to the rest of the games greatness then I really can't be stuffed complaining. but a lot of Nintendo fans will lie to themselves and never admit a particular weakness present in Nintendo games. thats because it's always better to look at the positives then the negatives. Just thinking about a game so negative like you would just ruin the game. EVEN Miyamoto himself admitted how 'lacking' WW was. Thats because there was a thing called a 'set time' now think of it as homework at school or uni. you have a set date to finish something. But if you don't finish it then your fucked. There were many things taken out of the game because they didn't have ENOUGH TIME. if they had more they would have added a lot more. So in all......if you don't bloody like it then make your own game if you don't like the laziness form nintendo
Patch Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 You know, I like my girlfriend, my parents and my siblings...But they do not come without 'faults', so I criticize these 'faults' in order for them to rise above them (where possible) and become better people. How magnanimous of you. I bet they fight over who gets to invite you at Christmas.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 Thats because there was a thing called a 'set time' now think of it as homework at school or uni. you have a set date to finish something. But if you don't finish it then your fucked. There were many things taken out of the game because they didn't have ENOUGH TIME. if they had more they would have added a lot more. Okay, lets use your analogy. Say you have a group project with no limitations on how many people can join the group...What do you do to hand in the group project on time and with distinction? Answer: Add more people into that group. Nintendo make enough money to make/train up bigger teams to aid production of their games. There isn't really any excuse - this is what they do for a living. Release dates arn't really that important, because if people want the game they will buy it regardless of when it releases. I'd rather have them delay a quality game further than to rush and release it, whats the damn point in that!? We're still playing Ocarina of Time almost 10 years later, even though it was immensely delayed back in the day. But the overal quality of that product is highly visible and ensured its place in gaming history for its time, but still reaches people two generations later - only a select amount of games have that affect - and most recent Nintendo games don't, imo due to laziness. Agree, agree to disagree, disagree to agree - either way, I will put my point across.
jammy2211 Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 Putting more people into developing a game isn't going to make it go faster. You've got to consider the people who Nintendo put in charge of making games like Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Smash bros etc are their most long-term and experienced employees. You can't just make up a team of developers and make something like WindWaker, it's not that easy. If developing a game on that scale and quality was, then why do we only get about 4 or 5 amazing games every year on each platform (if that?). Making a great game isn't as simple as just throwing as much money as possible at it and hoping it works.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 21, 2007 Author Posted August 21, 2007 thats because it's always better to look at the positives then the negatives. Just thinking about a game so negative like you would just ruin the game. NO! Rightfully criticizing something helps it in the long run. Avoiding the negatives and only recognizing the positives is near dillusional. This is mainly the reason the news highlights all the bad things; in order for it to (hopefully) be identified and dealt with. Its like calling this world perfect, whilst not looking at the criminals, the wars, the disasters and every other negative aspect - thats just dillusional. I balance it out; look at my avatar (which I took the picture of), it shows you that I enjoyed TP enough to play till the end and complete it. I have shown that i have extensive knowledge of the games of this series. Everyone has praised TP for its positives, but what about its negatives? I should keep quite about them? What does that do in the long run? NOTHING! So you'll get a game with similar negatives because no one complains about it.
Cube Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 We're still playing Ocarina of Time almost 10 years later, even though it was immensely delayed back in the day. But the overal quality of that product is highly visible and ensured its place in gaming history for its time, but still reaches people two generations later - only a select amount of games have that affect - and most recent Nintendo games don't, imo due to laziness. I didn't like OoT much. Majora's Mask was the game that got me into Zelda. Also, it reaches people because it's older. Year-old games aren't as nostalgic as 5+ year old games, which is the reason OoT is played today. A few years after OoT was out, I don't remember many people going back to it. In 4 or 5 years, we'll be going back to the good 'ol days of Metroid Prime and, later, Twilight Princess. When playing them is nostalgic. If you bumped up OoT's graphics, but kept everything gameplay-wise the same and released it, it would be pretty horrible because it loses the nostalgic appeal, and all that's left is clunky controls and outdated gameplay (The Zelda gameplay has advanced more than people seem to say since OoT). I'd rather have them delay a quality game further than to rush and release it, whats the damn point in that!? If Nintendo (or any developer) kept delaying games until they were 100% happy, no games would ever be released.
Patch Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 NO! Rightfully criticizing something helps it in the long run. Avoiding the negatives and only recognizing the positives is near dillusional. This is mainly the reason the news highlights all the bad things; in order for it to (hopefully) be identified and dealt with. Pfff, hardly. News coverage concentrates on bad things because they attract attention (and therefore sales). Sounds a bit like someone on this thread actually... Its like calling this world perfect... Absolutely no-one on this entire board is calling Nintendo perfect.
Gizmo Posted August 21, 2007 Posted August 21, 2007 What was the quote, it was said by a Halo 3 developer I believe, but it is still relevant. "But nothing will ever be good enough for the pople in this building...We always joke that at some point someone will have to come alomnh and prise the code out of our hands because we will tweak and tune right up till the final second." You can tweak, finetune and polish as much as you want. But no matter how good a game you want to make eventually the game has to be released and money made.
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