sumo73
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Posts posted by sumo73
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I really am starting to think that Parliament is going to "overturn" (for lack of a better term, since it wasn't legally binding) the referendum.
The country is in turmoil. Almost half didn't vote to leave, many who did are starting to regret it. The political parties are imploding. The UK is fracturing. The markets are mental. Banks are crashing. The pound is the weakest it has been for decades.
They can't ignore these things. Just because a slim majority voted to leave on a non-binding referendum does not mean they have to do it and it'd be negligent to just ignore the millions of people who don't want it. They need to find a compromise, something to make everyone happy.
We're not in a country of direct democracy, and to leave this decision solely to direct democracy when both the campaigns just outright lied to the public is just horrific.
We are moving to the point of no return right now. Yes this referendum could be ignored but at what cost? Do you think 52% of the population would just say oh ok have another vote the last one was just a dry run. What happens if we have another vote and it's the same result or a near opposite result. Imagine if last weeks result was with 48% voting to leave you would still have a lot of unhappy people.
I agree both campaigns lied with big business and the media playing their dirty part in all of this. (I include the BBC in this)
We need to move on together or we are all screwed, simple as that.
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I think Article 50 will be invoked but it won't be started until some of the mess we are in starts to calm down and the markets start to remain more stable.
Although there are lots of voices from the Remain side who are understandably angry and upset with what happened last week we do need to move on as a country. This mess won't be sorted out just by those who wanted to leave.
Regards to the current Labour leader he was never really pro EU to begin with but the rest of the Labour party having been sold the pro EU message by Tony Blair that it was a system without fault did. The Labour leader had to represent the views of his party and he went down a slightly different line to stay in the EU but with reform and not just accept the status quo. However had the party been less pro EU, I believe that Jeremy Corbyn could have campaigned for that and it would have shown a different message that wasn't based on immigration and inward lookingness that others complain about. I believe that now is not the time for the Labour party which are facing some bad waters to boot off it's captain into the sea and then get someone from the engine room to take over.
Regarding the EU, we will not turn our backs on Europe but they need to take some time to reflect on themselves. Were we responsible in any way for this? Could we have done more to show people (not just politicians) that the EU was there to benefit not just big business but all the people across the UK. It would have been nice for someone big in Europe to come over to the UK and stated their case. But EU reform (not just tokenism) is just not possible. It is a system that is stubborn to reform unless it gets a shock to the system. Well it just got it's shock.
If Article 50 is not invoked (I seriously doubt it) then do you expect everything to return back to normal. Do you expect people who voted to leave will just accept this. We are in interesting times right now we need to pull together as the United Kingdom so that everyone can live a peaceful life.
Oh and in regards to ethnic minorities having abuse at them. My girlfriend is a former refugee to this country and went to a party with her extended family at the weekend. Most of them voted to stay although some voted out and none of them have experienced any form of racism about this result. Hardly a scientific test but that's the only thing I know.
Sadly I will add there are several EU states that have no want to leave the EU where racism is on the rise and I would encourage the EU to get it's act together and stop this. Just as the UK needs to, the EU must show leadership.
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Interesting stat I heard yesterday.
Apparently, 4% of UKIP voters voted to remain....
You guys had one job!
I remember some interesting stats coming from the Scottish referendum in 2014 that people went against their parties wishes and voted the opposite way. Some SNP voters voting to stay in the UK and some Scottish Conservatives voting for independence.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/lib-dems-pledge-british-return-eu-next-general-electionThis is not surprising. The Lib Dems have traditionally been very pro-European and consistently call for further intergration. Are the Commons recalled tomorrow? I expect a heated discussion tomorrow. It will be interesting to see if the Commons vote to defy the referendum result. I expect not. What I do expect is that the UK will end up negotiating some half arsed trade deal which will then be put to the country in a referendum with a choice with remaining part of the EU or accepting the trade deal.
If Art 50 is invoked there is no way going back, not without the consent of the other 27 member states anyway.
Before the results came out ask yourself how popular were the Lib Dems? A party with just 8 MPs. I say this as now an ex long term Lib Dem voter. I'm sure the Lib Dems will see their member base increase now because of their new stance on getting back into the EU by invoking Article 49 and also their membership will increase because this online petition about getting a second referendum will almost certainly fail.
If the Lib Dems just want to get back into exactly the same EU that we have now that would be a mistake. There needs reform.
Regardless of the results of this vote the EU themselves need to ask why did this all happen? They need to do some soul searching themselves.
As I see it the UK can decide when to start Article 50 and not when the EU pushes us to start. These discussions have to be in the best interests on not only the UK but the EU as well. There can be a win-win for both now rather than some upsetting and very public divorce.
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Newcastle city centre today
/I'm not reposting that image however/
Stupid idiots all four of them.
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There's a huge difference! We chose to join the EU.
We originally choose to join the EEC and did so back in 1973 and then had a referendum back in 1975 about whether we should stay or leave. Back then it was a free trade association regarding the movement of goods and services and not much else but over time it moved towards great union and more importantly political union and that was achieved in 1993 with the EU.
We never had any referendum back in 1993 about whether we should have carried on or not. All we got was from the then PM John Major was largely an opt out clause which meant that we didn't have to accept the Euro.
This current PM David Cameron desperate to keep his own party together some of whom were anti EU and the PM was also desperate to finish off UKIP biting at their heels called for a referendum. He didn't have to call for one this year but he did. If he had pulled it off that would have been the end of UKIP and other Euro skeptic MP's would have had to put up with the result. He nearly pulled it off.
What Cameron and the rest of the political elite did not understand was the mood of the country, the people. There is now a big divide not just between those who voted Leave and those that voted Remain but a bigger divide between the political parties and the general public. I saw the rise of Jeremy Corbyn last year and with the vast Labour party member support I thought he could speak up for the forgotten but at times he seemed distant and aloof from what the general public felt during the EU debate. I still support Corbyn but he needs to listen not just to the supporters of the Labour party but to the general public.
Last year during the elections I voted Labour (having been a life long Lib Dem voter) and for about two days after the elections when the Conservatives won I felt depressed about the whole thing. I just shut myself away for the weekend thinking to myself another five years of austerity, marginalisation of the poor, welfare cuts, another five years of selfishness and inward lookingness however I accepted the result. I want to add that I don't hate the Conservative party at all which seems to be the common thread with people, tribalism and hatred. What did we get last year? Hatred online for anyone who voted Tory and some protests against them being in power again. With this referendum history has a habit of repeating itself doesn't it?
Regardless of this vote we in the UK are still Europeans. We won't stop being the country that we were (our core principles), we won't become racists, we will still accept others into the country and we won't turn our backs on Europe. It's just we won't be ruled partly by them any more.
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This might be a bit heavy for some but I think it's worth sharing -
And for everyone else-
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No I think based on what you are saying its clearly an emotional vote. You are using the term international government and suggesting the EU are some sort of overlord government that the UK have to follow no ifs or buts... I would say Scotland under the UK is a better example for what you are getting at right now.
"Now, Everything is done in Europe, and Europe doing this, Europe doing that really means the Commission has the powers of initiation and the ministers are under pressure to go along with them, and the public are kept out completely out! The European Parliament has no particular power - you don't elect members anyway, you just follow the list system. So you don't have local representation. The whole thing has been structured to keep the people of Europe from any approval at any stage.... It's a European federation, of a kind...It is an empire being built before our eyes, and what you do about it can't be a nationalist response; it has to be a democratic response". Tony Benn - 19th December, 2007 (The Last Diaries p.48)
On Thursday if there had been a third option when voting "Stay in a reformed European Union" then I would have voted for that straight away. A reformed union that Jeremy Corbyn had spoken about during the campaign but the reality was how possible was that option and how soon could that have happened.
It has taken the UK to leave the EU to prompt Greece's Prime Minister to say "We need an immediate change of course, democratic and progressive breakthroughs in Europe - changes in perceptions, mentalities and ultimately changes in policies".
The idea of the European Union was a good idea but it needs progressive change to become something greater than it is.
Last year I was completely against the UK holding any EU referendum especially when we had more important things to sort out. Last year I was very much pro EU but since last year I've seen the refugee crisis being handled badly by the EU and the rise of nationalism across Europe.
People complain about how now racism has won in this EU referendum in the UK but I suggest you travel to certain parts of Europe. I hate the fact that several EU states love all the benefits of being in the EU especially with the free movement of people only don't like it when new people move to them who are fleeing for their lives. There are other things I want to say but I'm tired out by all of this...
In an IN/OUT referendum there is a only a binary choice, there is no third option. We now must accept the result as painful as it is to some, heal some big divisions across the UK and move forward together.
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I find it absolutely sickening that Sturgeon is using this to further her agenda. She calls it democratically unacceptable for Scotland to be taking out of the EU against it's will yet she has no problem forcing another independence referendum down the throats of the 55% percent who dismissed the last independence referendum.
It will be a 'Neverendum', meanwhile food banks, lack of social housing, health, cost of living, education and other issues will be put on the back burner while another referendum takes place and at what cost I wonder?
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No it wasn't. We voted overwhelmingly that we wanted to stay as part of the UK and EU. Without this verdict, another independence referendum would not be happening anytime soon.
Would they win another referendum? Who knows. No one wants to have the euro and you can bet your arse that England won't allow us to use the pound. Also bearing in mind if we become independent we will also have to re-enter the EU, which is not a quick process. We'll have an eu customs border between Scotland and England. It's not necessarily a given that independence would occur.
For me when you have the SNP in power then they would always push for independence regardless of the EU vote. It's their core belief. Even straight after the Scottish referendum back in 2014 the SNP talked again about another referendum.
This is from their 2016 manifesto -
"In the next parliament, we will try to get the Scottish people to agree that being an independent country is the best option for our country. We will listen to the people who voted No in 2014 and we hope to change their minds".
This is from their 2015 manifesto-
"The same principle underpins our continued support for independence and was at the heart of our campaign for a Yes vote in September 2014."
In regards to Scotland using the pound and that England would not allow them to use it, of course that could happen but Scotland could use a different currency and peg it to the pound. The republic of Ireland used to peg it's currency to the pound in the past so it can work. Jim Sillars (ex SNP deputy leader) has spoken about this (Plan B) previously.
Regardless of the EU results expect to see Nicola Sturgeon popping up on your TV a lot now regardless of where you live in the UK but the SNP voice must not be the only voice coming from Scotland.
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Well, this was fun. Do we want another Scottish Independence referendum or do the Irish Reunification thing next?
Even if Farage was given immediate absolute power immigration wouldn't fall anywhere near what Leave voters might hope for: businesses of every size would be screaming at his door not to.
A Scottish referendum was on the cards regardless of the EU vote. I don't see any Irish reunification in either the short or medium term however. The conditions on the island of Ireland are very different to those in Scotland.
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There won't be, which a lot of Leave voters will be disappointed about. Immigration massively helps our country.
I agree there won't be any real change in immigration in fact in the run up to the UK leaving there is likely to be an increase in EU immigration before we leave the EU.
I posted earlier about the removal of the migrant impact fund and the fact that some businesses here undercut local wages by allowing foreign labour in and paying them less money. Regardless of wherever someone comes from they need to be paid the same going rate. I believe that the migrant impact fund should be reintroduced and an end to undercutting practices.
The bigger question is how to do as a society co-exist with other people, how do we improve social cohesion and no one behind?
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In regards to the results, I'm doing the same thing I did during the general election last year and just go to sleep and find out the results when I turn the telly on in the morning. Not staying up all night listening to new reporters talking about things with the result dragging out.
I've spent too much time watching TV, reading newspapers, watching YT clips and talking to people all about the EU.
Enough, sleep calls...
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If we remain I can certainly see that. If we leave I'd expect shouting rather than violence.
If we remain they're going to say it was rigged. Some already are.
People are going to be upset regardless but I guess it depends how close the vote is.
I won't be upset regardless of the outcome.
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I exercised my right to vote this morning.
Hashtag Remain.
Sorry couldn't resist -
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Regardless of tomorrow's vote in the UK we do need to look into the 'migrant impact' fund which this government removed and look into why some migrants undercut UK workers wages. Both of these points I should add were raised by the Labour leader.
I don't see any clear winners in this EU referendum and I feel that the campaigns on both sides could have and should have been handled better. I saw a very dirty side to politics during this debate and I'm not impressed by it. Let's not forget that an MP died during this campaign. An MP that was prepared to work with others from different parties. An MP who saw the bigger picture away from divisive and tribal party politics that we normally see when we watch PMQ's or look across our media.
When we vote on Thursday regardless of how we vote we are exercising our democratic vote. How we come back together as a country, how we look at the bigger picture, how we can heal some quite big divisions in the UK due to this referendum and how we accept the results is a question for Friday.
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But if the UK votes to leave, Scotland will almost certainly vote to leave the UK. But if we vote to stay then they'll almost certainly stay in the UK.
...'almost certainly', the truth is nothing is 100% any more. As I said before the point is 'when' will the SNP hold another referendum.
The SNP supports a core view that an independent Scotland is in the best view for the country and for it's future.
According to their 2016 manifesto -
"In the next parliament, we will try to get the Scottish people to agree that being an independent country is the best option for our country. We will listen to the people who voted No in 2014 and we hope to change their minds".
Regardless of the outcome of the EU vote, the SNP will continue to push for their core belief, don't think otherwise.
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I think the main argument is that Scotland will have another referendum, and leave, thus taking most of the left wing voters with them.
The question is when? When will it happen?
If the UK votes to leave the European Union then Scotland will pull another referendum within the next few years.
If the UK votes to stay in the European Union then Scotland will pull another referendum only a bit later.
Regardless of what happens on the 23rd June, another Scottish referendum is on its way.
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I knew about the Easter Uprising already but enjoyed the video, thanks.
There were some points I could have discussed here (about the video) but it's St. Patrick's Day and I want to celebrate it so Happy St. Patrick's Day everyone!!
This video is not directly related but is worth watching if you have the time-
And here is a short Irish film which you might like to watch-
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With Virgin Media (50 Mbps) broadband only. Did a speed test and got 54 Mbps download and 3 Mbps upload. Got a letter back in the autumn telling me about a speed increase and yet another price hike but the speed has remained the same. I'm happy enough with the speed anyway especially as before broadband, and only a few years ago my internet speed was very limited and terrible.
If Virgin increase their prices again (this year) I might look elsewhere however.
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It sounds like you had to deal with a difficult customer, you have learnt from the experience and most importantly you still have your job.
Of course you need to be professional but staff shouldn't be subjected to abuse.
On a different point separate to this, I feel at times that if things are not sorted out 'some' staff will start to think that all customers are worthless complainers and stupid and that's a bad hill to travel down.
If you are interested there are a few YT videos out there about dealing with difficult customers which might help.
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Video games in general cost more and more to develop than they did in the past and companies need you to go out and buy the latest version and move away from the older versions so they can get a decent return on their investment. It makes little sense for a developer (or with a publisher breathing down their neck) to make a game that is really future proof.
The single player campaign is moving towards becoming the training level (not all games) and the real game for some is online where developers can spend less time on making good A.I and get you to go out and buy extra DLC levels in order to get the most out of a game or being able to get 100% on all trophies/achievements.
As far as the availability of WiiWare titles goes then I can see them being there for sometime (they are just titles on a server online rather than physical titles in a warehouse) especially as you don't need a Wii to play them on (ie Wii U) just as you can still download DSi titles on the 3DS.
Whereas you can buy old Wii games second hand at a cheaper price, the price of WiiWare and other download titles generally keep their price and as long as Nintendo can make money on it, they will keep them available. The only thing I saw a while back was when Nintendo removed some old Hudson soft titles but they are back again now.
Video games seem to be more temporary than they used to be and less future proof, the lack of offline multiplayer, lack of A.I bots, smaller single player campaign, DLC which at times cost almost the same as the game, bigger reliance on online servers which may or not be free and can be terminated within xx days notice it's not great news. Don't get me wrong there are some great games out there but I don't like what some publishers are doing now with video games.
When the PS3 and Xbox 360 servers go just wait for the complaints. It will be just like 2014 all over again.
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I just bought 'Scarface' on DVD and 'Scarface : The world is yours' for the Wii. Ordered them and both arrived today.
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In Japan there's a TV programme called Game Center CX where someone called Shinya Arino has to complete retro video games in a short time. In this episode he is joined by Iwata.
This video is in Japanese but it has English subtitles.
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Yesterday was never gonna be a great day for me as it was the anniversary of my dad's death so with that in mind and hearing about Iwata's death was not great. It's strange how we all feel some connection with someone who we never met but yet we knew in some way.
It's interesting looking back on what Iwata really did at Nintendo, something which I'm only really starting to find out but I could always tell he loved his job and put a lot of effort into it.
Iwata's legacy of course will continue.
Good to see the N-Europe community responding well here and of course the amazing live stream of 24 hours of Kirby. If you haven't been there please do and give if you can.
EU Referendum - In/Out?
in General Chit Chat
Posted · Edited by sumo73
As I said before if Jeremy Corbyn (the current Labour party leader) had been allowed to campaign on what he truly felt about the EU, what he historically thought about the EU, the Leave campaign would have won on based more on facts rather than immigration and inward looking views.
People of the EU need to ask people who rule the EU these questions -
What power do you have?
Where did you get it from?
In whose interests do you exercise it?
To whom are you accountable?
How can we get rid of you?