Posted August 24, 2006 Back to the stem cell stuff, i honstly believe that untill a child is born its not a living thing. You can remember being born? Can anyone? The fact is, you can't remember much because your brain has to keep building itself up untill you're about 5 years old and even more. If we can use stem cells to cure the living, then so be it no matter the cost. 'Playing God' so to speak has to be done, its the only way we're gunna advance science further and anyway we've already thrown natural selection out of the window when cures for diseases were found... why stop there? lots of people can't remember when they're mashed on alcohol or drugs. are you suggesting when they are in this state it is ok to harvest any organs/cells from them as we please? life isn't defined as memory, what about people with amnesia? and you mentioned 5 year olds - would you be ok with having a five year old killed and their organs harvested as treatment for others? people aren't fully developed until 18-21 (I believe in men often the collar bone isn't fully set till 21), so your argument could have 20 year olds harvested as required by the "living" population. and playing God doesn't need to be done, it is a choice, no one is compelled to do anything. It is purely a case of ethics and personal beliefs, and each person will have varying views on the whole issue, and each of these ought to be taken into account to some extent when laws, rules and guidelines are created regarding these things, thats the way society works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2006 I know i'm going totally off topic and i do agree with some points you've made Haden. The fact is, if you don't think the White House is run by Zionists you must be insane. Lets think here, why did they invade countries and build enourmas oil pipe lines? The Isreali's have so many fingers up America's ass they can pretty much do whatever they want. Why did only America and the UK (mostly because our country is also run by tools...) say no to a cease fire? America has total power over any decision because they'll veto anything they don't like... and just why does so much money go to Isreal every year? Back to the stem cell stuff, i honstly believe that untill a child is born its not a living thing. You can remember being born? Can anyone? The fact is, you can't remember much because your brain has to keep building itself up untill you're about 5 years old and even more. If we can use stem cells to cure the living, then so be it no matter the cost. 'Playing God' so to speak has to be done, its the only way we're gunna advance science further and anyway we've already thrown natural selection out of the window when cures for diseases were found... why stop there? I agree America has a special relationship with Isreal but it isn't run by Zionists. Zionists lobby and have influence but if it was just a Zionist government then the Middle East would look a lot different. I think the ceasfire issue to be honest was a sensible desicion and you could argue that many countries are anti zionist and tried to push Isreal into a mess. All bush and blair wanted was a sustainable peace that an immediate ceasefire obviously woulnd't have given the one that is in place now may in fact fail. As for your other argument. I'm sorry to say I think its ridiculous. Mentally Handicapped grown ups can't remember a lot of what happens so what should happen to them? To say something isn't alive because it can't remember things is just mad. It goes against both science and religion. I think your confusing how councious someone is of their surroundings with being alive. But well yeh lol its just a very odd argument and Pestneb has pointed out some of the things you get into if you really wanted to stand by that line of thought. No offense though I like these discussions and I understand your Israel point but don't think its dominated as much as poeple think but it is a strong influence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2006 Michael J. Fox, the star one those movies, has Parkinson's disease, which supposdly can be cured with stem cell research. OOHHHHhohKay.:awesome: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2006 lots of people can't remember when they're mashed on alcohol or drugs. are you suggesting when they are in this state it is ok to harvest any organs/cells from them as we please? life isn't defined as memory, what about people with amnesia? and you mentioned 5 year olds - would you be ok with having a five year old killed and their organs harvested as treatment for others? people aren't fully developed until 18-21 (I believe in men often the collar bone isn't fully set till 21), so your argument could have 20 year olds harvested as required by the "living" population. and playing God doesn't need to be done, it is a choice, no one is compelled to do anything. It is purely a case of ethics and personal beliefs, and each person will have varying views on the whole issue, and each of these ought to be taken into account to some extent when laws, rules and guidelines are created regarding these things, thats the way society works. I agree with Jordan’s point of view. You've over exadurated his point about embryos not really being alive so much it was pathetic. I'm sure he wasn't suggesting that anything that has actually been born to be ‘harvested’ lets not be silly now. The Idea of making this research illegal because embryos supposedly have a 'Soul' is preposterous when it could be benefiting people with serious conditions. This is my point of view, though I'd expect there to be people with varying opinions. I thought that would be obvious otherwise there would be no debate. The people who plan to use stem-cell research have found a way to bypass those laws and rules. The embryo is still alive, both sides win then? I wish that science would get off with it that easy, but I have a feeling that this debate is going to be opened up again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2006 I agree with Jordan’s point of view. You've over exadurated his point about embryos not really being alive so much it was pathetic. I'm sure he wasn't suggesting that anything that has actually been born to be ‘harvested’ lets not be silly now. The Idea of making this research illegal because embryos supposedly have a 'Soul' is preposterous when it could be benefiting people with serious conditions. This is my point of view, though I'd expect there to be people with varying opinions. I thought that would be obvious otherwise there would be no debate. The people who plan to use stem-cell research have found a way to bypass those laws and rules. The embryo is still alive, both sides win then? I wish that science would get off with it that easy, but I have a feeling that this debate is going to be opened up again. I don't think the statement that a person isn't alive until they are five needs much exgarration. If Mr Odwin saw this thread he would probably have something to say about that. And yes everyones win win now so lets all be happy until the next dispute causes us to say that Bush got pwned or Blair suxxor! :wink: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 24, 2006 I don't think the statement that a person isn't alive until they are five needs much exgarration. If Mr Odwin saw this thread he would probably have something to say about that. And yes everyones win win now so lets all be happy until the next dispute causes us to say that Bush got pwned or Blair suxxor! :wink: Mr Odwin is religious, right? Your right in being happy, I just hope nobody else finds fault in the tampering of stem cells. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
