Eiji Aonuma GDC Keynote

[Dante]

Eiji Aonuma keynote about the Zelda series.

 

Mr. Aonuma is talking about Wind Waker. Unfortunately the game did not sell very well in Japan, but sold very well in the US. Aonuma was convinced that it did not sell well due to the graphical style. There was a mix of seasoned gamers getting border, and new gamers being too intimidated to play. Twilight Princess was originally titled Wind Waker 2, which later moved away as the game went further into development.

 

Aonuma is moving into the connectivity aspect of the Zelda series. He is discussing the Four Sword Adventures for the Cube. Mr. Miyamoto felt this title was important because it would use connectivity as the main aspect of gameplay…and therefore Aonuma went ahead with it. That title did not sell too well either, which is closely related to all the hardware needed to play. Another reason was how difficult it was to pull gamers in due to the nature of the title. It was hard to show off just how to play the game, what you needed and what needed to be done in a simple commercial.

 

Moving back to Wind Waker, while the game did sell over a million units, the title trickled off in sales quickly after passing that mark. The reason Twilight Princess went with a more realistic style was because Aonuma wanted to give the North American market what they wanted. The North American market is much stronger (when talking Zelda) than the Japanese market, so the move was made. The gameplay was to be more realistic as well, when compared to Wind Waker.

 

Once the DS came into play, the team that worked on Four Swords moved onto a DS Zelda project. This team put cel shading to use, and showed Mr. Aonuma that it was possible to do a cel shaded 3d Link on the DS. Originally Link was on the top screen, and you controlled him with the D-Pad. Aonuma wanted to change this to something much more innovative. The team switched Link to the bottom screen, allowing for full touch screen control. On top of this, Nintendo added the battle mode which we saw at E3, and the show floor at GDC.

 

Aonuma wanted to innovate with Twilight Princess, but couldn’t find any way to work something into the Cube game to better gameplay. Eventually the idea of Link changing into a Wolf came to mind.

 

Miyamoto didn’t think the idea of a Wolf Link in a Zelda game would work at all, and thought it amateurish of Aonuma to even mention the idea. Aonuma continued on, and believed that he and his team could find a way to make this idea work. Minish Cap also helped Aonuma see how two worlds could work well together, and helped him to evolve Twilight Princess.

 

E3 2005 came along, and Aonuma felt there was nothing special about Twilight Princess to show at E3. It left Aonuma with little to show at E3. Miyamoto gave Aonuma the goal to strive from Zelda at 120%; it had to be better than Ocarina in every way. Even with Aonuma doubting Twilight Princess, the game was very well received at the next E3.

 

Aonuma felt there was much more to do with Twilight Princess. There was a need to do something else new with Link…something to get people to interact more. That’s when the idea of using the Wiimote on Twilight Princess came about. At first Aonuma didn’t think the Wiimote would be used until the next console Zelda…the one following Twilight Princess. Miyamoto gave the goal of using the Wiimote as the bow and arrow as a main goal for Aonuma to approach. The problem that came up was the one of alienating Cube owners that wanted to play on the Cube, and not Wii. Miyamoto convinced Iwata to wait until 2006 so that a Wii and Cube version could be created.

 

Cube and Wii development with hand and hand, with a goal of completing the Cube version first and then finding out what needed to be done with the Wii version.

 

The first thing to tackle was camera control. Finding a way to combine traditional joystick control, as well as pointer control. After that, motion sensor discussion came up. A first person view was originally used for link swinging his sword, but the development team feels that this didn’t work well. A video was shown, and it actually looked very strange to see a Zelda title work this way.

 

They also tried third person sword control with the Wiimote(like we have in the final version), but the team first felt that it didn’t work. Seeing Link swings his left hand and using your right to accomplish this didn’t function well. The version that was at E3 didn’t have motion sword controls. Miyamoto came back from E3 saying that many people felt there were a lot of issues with controls.

 

Aonuma thought that people had a rough issue playing the game on the show floor, and that the opinions they have would disappear once they had a more relaxed play session. Aonuma and Miyamoto took all the negative feedback and started things over again.

 

Aonuma had to completely redesign the Wiimote controls. The problem of the B trigger came up. The B trigger was used for Link’s sword, but now the team wanted to use it in conjunction with the d-pad for items. This forced the team to rethink the sword controls. The idea came to mind to mirror the world so that Link could be right handed. The team tried this out, and it was decided that this was definitely the way to go. Now players could swing the wiimote as they wanted to to control Link’s sword. All of this work went on to great success for Twilight Princess, except in Japan. Aonuma believes that Twilight Princess gave the impression of being too hard, and that’s why the Japanese public didn’t buy it.

 

This is why work on Phantom Hourglass is so important. One of the first things Aonuma is discussing is the wifi-enabled battle mode found in the game. He is going through how the game works, which many of you saw in the videos posted. The mode is called hide and seek mode. You collect triforce pieces and take them to your base. Your opponent tries to catch you and hit you, which ends your turn. That’s when the two players switch modes. Both modes use touch screen control. One Link versus 3 enemies. Carrying a triforce pieces slows your character down a lot, making it harder to get them back to your base safely. The bigger the piece, that slower you run. Bigger pieces are worth more points. When you play as defense you draw a path for the path of one of three enemies. When you switch to another enemy, the camera switches to him as well. This way you can watch him walk on his path until you switch again. Enemies cannot enter bases or safe zones. Safe zones are scattered throughout the field.

 

Aonuma says that there is something that happened to him that has been very influential. Aonuma’s wife is not interested in games at all. She doesn’t understand the hardships of game development, and thinks that he just plays games all day. Aonuma’s 5 year old son wanted a Wiimote. He didn’t say that he wanted the system, he thought it was a stand alone device.

 

Aonuma had to convince his wife that 5 years old wasn’t too young to start playing games. He started his son on Wii Sports. His son was able to pick up the game very easily. He also brought Twilight Princess home, even though he thought his son was too young. His son had a little trouble at the start, but by teaching him he could fish and call the hawk…and later on he could aim and shoot.

 

Aonuma came home the next to find his own wife playing, and his son cheering him on. His wife said that she was helping his son at first, but then she got more into the game. Now they both play Twilight Princess all the time. His wife stated that with old games she never wanted to try, but after seeing their son play the Wii she became very interested.

 

This reminded Aonuma of playing his first game of Mario on the NES. This is a vital aspect to the Wii.

 

Now the keynote is ending with the Phantom Hourglass trailer.

 

GoNintendo.

[Anakenobi]

He should have added that there was gaming crisis in Japan (before the DS came in the scene, that is). And that these days, most games are designed for western tastes in mind. Because games still sell better over here.

 

Like Twilight Princess sold better in the States and everywhere else than in Japan. Capcom designed RE4 for western gamers (thus the action focused action and such). The company even spoke about that in their annual report, about making their games to fit the needs of gamers of western countries.

[Dante]

IGN Interview.

 

The name Shigeru Miyamoto is synonymous with the Mario franchise, but these days gamers have also come to know the name Eiji Aonuma. Nintendo's game director, who helmed such titles as Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess, has created some of the most compelling Zelda titles ever made and is currently working on the DS effort Phantom Hourglass. We recently sat down with Aonuma and chatted candidly about the future of the Zelda franchise.

 

Nintendo has stressed repeatedly that with Wii it wanted to develop a console that anybody could enjoy and to that end it has also developed a library of games that are simply and easily approachable. Aonuma, however, dismissed the notion that going forward Nintendo would downplay the relevance of epic titles such as Zelda and instead focus its energies on casual-style games.

 

"Nintendo has come out with games like Wii Sports and Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. They're both very different games and the experiences are completely different, but they are both produced by Miyamoto-san," Aonuma said. "It's not as though one is better than the other -- it's just that the overall experiences are very different. They're both fun in their different ways. So it's not as though Nintendo's heading into a more simplified direction. It's all about balance."

 

With more than a million copies of Twilight Princess sold on Wii in America alone, it's no secret that the franchise is as viable today as it was when Ocarina of Time debuted years ago. And for almost as many years, Aonuma has captained the Zelda charge at Nintendo, but will he continue to be the go-to-guy for all things Hyrule?

 

"I'm 43 and I'll be 44 very soon so as game creators go I'm kind of up there," he said, laughing. "I'm hoping to nurture those below me and train them to become Zelda creators as well."

 

Aonuma indicated that Twilight Princess, for as good as it was, is just the tip of the iceberg for what can be done to the franchise on Wii.

 

Said Aonuma: "Twilight Princess was created for the GameCube first and the Wii version came later. When we approached Twilight Princess and added the Wii compatible features, we tried to take advantage of the initial key features of the Wii, like the pointer and the motion sensor -- because it was a launch title. But moving forward, as we get more used to using the Wii controllers and we get more used to developing for the Wii, you can probably expect even more deeper controls."

 

Some critics have complained that Twilight Princess played and looked too similar to Ocarina of Time. We asked Aonuma if that was a design choice.

 

"No, it wasn't my intent at all to make something that looked like or played like Ocarina of Time. I wanted to create something that exceeded Ocarina of Time so that could be why it might seem similar. And some of the staff that worked on Ocarina of Time also worked on Twilight Princess, so that might have impacted it as well. But my goal was to create something new," said Aonuma.

 

Quizzed on whether or not there is room for visual improvement to the Zelda series on Wii, Aonuma responded: "With the Wii version of Twilight Princess, I was creating the Wii version of a GameCube game and wanted to make them similar, so I didn't use the Wii graphics capability to its full capacity. We could actually do a lot more with that and I'm looking forward to doing that."

 

We asked Aonuma why Twilight Princess didn't feature an orchestral soundtrack.

 

"i think you're probably talking about the comment I made at E3 about using fully orchestrated background music for Zelda. [Omitting that] was actually a conscious decision we had to make because of development timing," said Aonuma. "It's something that Kondo-san [the game's composer] is very frustrated about -- he really wishes we could have implemented that. So I'm hoping you'll look forward to that in future Zelda games."

 

Finally, we brought up a common gripe: the lack of any major voice acting in Twilight Princess. Unlike orchestral music, which Nintendo seems intent on doing for future games, the company is not yet convinced that characters should talk.

 

"In regard to voice acting, I made a conscious decision not to give Link a voice because Link is actually the player and to give him a voice would alter the experience for the player so I don't think that that will happen anytime soon. Unless, of course, it benefits the gameplay. It's all about gameplay, so it if benefits the gameplay then we would definitely consider including voice acting," Aonuma said. "There are many games out there that use voice recording and for me, if I were to choose to include voice acting in a Zelda game, it would have to change the game dramatically and make other people realize that it's a completely new way of using voices."

[Kurtle Squad]

Wow...the Japanese are never happy. TP was easy, maybe they should go back to playing Animal Crossing.

[Pit-Jr]

"i think you're probably talking about the comment I made at E3 about using fully orchestrated background music for Zelda. [Omitting that] was actually a conscious decision we had to make because of development timing," said Aonuma.

 

So 3-4 years of internal development by one of the largest software houses in the world isnt enough time to implement orchestral music?

Good one

[motion]

TP was a dry run before the proper Zelda game on the Wii anyway.

[Cube]

TP was a dry run before the proper Zelda game on the Wii anyway.

 

TP was simply the second GameCube Zelda. Hopefully that means we have two more "proper" Zelda games on the Wii, just like the 64 and GameCube.

[DCK]

I hope the orchestral music will happen for the next Zelda. Nintendo has lots of money and therefore time to spend.

 

TP was simply the second GameCube Zelda. Hopefully that means we have two more "proper" Zelda games on the Wii, just like the 64 and GameCube.

I don't think there's enough time for that. Two Zeldas in five years is too much for the team I think.

[Shino]

You all forget that TP was a GameCube game, and therefore there wasn't a lot of media space to storage such a huge world (textures and all) and high quality music.

 

I think the Zelda franchise (and by this a mean Mario and Metroid too) should be put on hold until next generation. They're getting to common, less desirable, and its taking Nintendo's time that could be spent on new IPs.

[Cube]

I think the Zelda franchise (and by this a mean Mario and Metroid too) should be put on hold until next generation.

 

Proper Mario games aren't exactly common. But the break did do a lot of good for Metroid.

[Anakenobi]

You all forget that TP was a GameCube game, and therefore there wasn't a lot of media space to storage such a huge world (textures and all) and high quality music.

 

Correct, if they had added orchestrated music it would've been hard for the little G.O.D. discs to deal with all that memory. How people forget that is beyond me... Let's wait for the next Zelda and Kondo and the rest of us, will have our wish granted (maybe).

 

And I agree, Link does not need to talk. Like Miyamoto and Aounuma have said, Link is the link between the gamer and the game. That's why you are always asked to write in your name for the hero. The hero is suppose to be you!

 

: peace:

[Shino]

Proper Mario games aren't exactly common. But the break did do a lot of good for Metroid.

 

You're right, not that Mario Sunshine was bad, but a game per generation seems like the right amount for each franchise, something to keep the fans expecting and excited. The main problem with Mario its all the milking he gets from nintendo, people get bored and instead of being a return from the classics, its just another repetitive game with the same character.

[Cube]

TBH, I think a new format of MIDI would be better than orchestrated music. It's entirely possible for a format of MIDI to now be created which sounds almost identical to orchestrated music. It would sound as great as orchestrated music, but also have the advantages of MIDI.

 

Just imagine, for example, the drumming in a particular tune (e.g. the "enemy close by" them), to actually come from the "directon" of the enemies, with the rest of the music playing normally.

 

It could be done, but will it be done?

[Tellyn]

Was Aonuma talking about Wi-Fi as in local wireless, or an actual online mode? I hate it when they just say Wi-Fi. I realise multiplayer so far has been local, but I'd like to know for definite.

[Lens of Truth]

The more one hears about the gestation of TP the more it becomes clear that it was all a bit of a mess. Personally, I think Miyamoto's initial gut reaction to the wolf idea as 'amateurish' was probably right.. It could have REALLY worked and been implemented so much better than it was (different attacks, more talking to animals, actual consequences to the story etc), but as it turned out it seemed like a bit of an empty novelty. I think they let the spectre of Ocarina haunt them too much as well - in the struggle to make it '120%' they sacrificed the most vital aspects of Zelda - character and soul -the very aspects that make LTTP, OOT, MM and WW what they are. The statement about including orchestral music not being fulfilled shows that they were confused (to say the least) about the direction of TP, and hints at a somewhat fraught development period.. Aonuma's comments about the inclusion of wiimote functionality also suggest a certain sense of desperation to add something more substantial to the game.

 

I'm glad to hear that orchestral music is still on the cards for the next one. Hopefully this new style will inspire Koji Kondo back to top form!

[Anakenobi]

The more one hears about the gestation of TP the more it becomes clear that it was all a bit of a mess. Personally, I think Miyamoto's initial gut reaction to the wolf idea as 'amateurish' was probably right.. It could have REALLY worked and been implemented so much better than it was (different attacks, more talking to animals, actual consequences to the story etc), but as it turned out it seemed like a bit of an empty novelty. I think they let the spectre of Ocarina haunt them too much as well - in the struggle to make it '120%' they sacrificed the most vital aspects of Zelda - character and soul -the very aspects that make LTTP, OOT, MM and WW what they are. The statement about including orchestral music not being fulfilled shows that they were confused (to say the least) about the direction of TP, and hints at a somewhat fraught development period.. Aonuma's comments about the inclusion of wiimote functionality also suggest a certain sense of desperation to add something more substantial to the game.

 

That's your particular take on the events behind TP, however, the truth seems to be quite different.

 

I subscribed to Nintendo Power just so I could read the exclusive articles that explained several aspects of the making of the game. And let me tell you, the production of the game wasn't a mess at all. Major figures behind the game spoke about TP and they seemed very-very focused in creating the best Zelda game possible.

 

Aonuma himself knew what direction he wanted TP to take and if there seems to be similar aspects/elements from OoT in TP it's because Aonuma was the man responsible for the dungeons of that game (he was also responsible for Majora's Mask). OoT was basically a rehash of the first game (NES). And every game after it, is basically just a new take on the original. The only thing that noticeably changes are gameplay elements and how they are implemented.

 

The whole argument about lack of soul is silly. And more so to claim that the most important aspect of any Zelda game being character development. This is not a Final Fantasy mind-f*ck. The most important aspect of any Zelda game is gameplay. Besides, the writers behind TP just won an award. So they did something right in that department.

 

The whole Koji Kondo wanting to use orchestral music was not possible on GameCube. Unless they compressed the music files to sound all crappy. And I don't see anything really wrong with TP's music as it is.

[Lens of Truth]

I think you misunderstood me slightly. I’m no TP-basher, I love many aspects of the game. However, if TP’s development was indeed the result of a clear-sighted vision, then Nintendo certainly know how to make things appear shakier than they are (just look how completely different in tone the E3 2004 trailer was to the final game, not to mention the delays). Of course I’m only stating my view on things. It just seems to me that occasionally the cracks begin to show through all the PR-speak and hype.. If you think it’s inappropriate not to take it all at face value then that’s fine.. but as I say, it seems a bit suspicious to me. It’s the only way I can account for the patchiness of the end product.

 

I wasn’t trying to say the developers weren’t focused and committed to the game- I would never accuse Nintendo of that! Rather that they almost too consciously set out to make it perfect, and couldn’t quite see the wood for the trees (tho I am overstating it a bit..).

 

By ‘character’ I meant in the general sense, not just simply ‘characters’. I don’t look to Zelda games, or Nintendo games in general, for that kind of obvious character development or plot. If TP managed to sustain the dark tone of its better moments (predominantly in the first half *winks to motion2000*) it would definitely be the masterpiece it’s claimed to be. As it stands it seems an awkward mix of the inspired and the insipid.

 

Unfortunately for TP as well, it straddles 2 generations of gaming, and I would rather have seen it earlier on the Cube. I’d also much prefer to gloss over all of my issues with the game and blindly hail it to be an unequalled masterpiece (just listen to the PR, that proves it!), but the fact is that I know Nintendo can do better..

 

[Apologies for longwindedness and unnecessary sarcasm]

[Anakenobi]

I think you misunderstood me slightly. I’m no TP-basher, I love many aspects of the game. However, if TP’s development was indeed the result of a clear sighted vision, then Nintendo certainly know how to make things appear shakier than they are (just look how completely different in tone the E3 2004 trailer was to the final game, not to mention the delays). Of course I’m only stating my view on things. It just seems to me that occasionally the cracks begin to show through all the PR-speak and hype.. If you think it’s inappropriate not to take it all at face value then that’s fine.. but as I say, it seems a bit suspicious to me. It’s the only way I can account for the patchiness of the end product.

 

I didn't see you as a TP basher. I was only saying that despite how messed up the production of the game might've seem to you, I had a different impression based on the articles I read. The devs behind TP sounded to me like people who knew what they were doing. In the articles I speak about, the devs aren't hyping the game like a PR whore, but are just explaining what they contributed to it. And Aonuma knew very well that the future of the franchise rested with him. So to consider his efforts half-arsed in anyway is probably not true. He was sweating bullets all along. The result was a game that is often considered game of the year (1up.com thought so) right up there with Gears of War and Okami.

 

By ‘character’ I meant in the general sense, not just simply ‘characters’. I don’t look to Zelda games, or Nintendo games in general, for that kind of obvious character development or plot. If TP managed to sustain the dark tone its better moments (predominantly in the first half *winks to motion2000*) it would definitely be the masterpiece it’s claimed to be. As it stands it seems an awkward mix of the inspired and the insipid.

 

Like I said, Zelda games are no mind-f*cks or one of those dark theme games that make some gothic kid wet his/her pants. Zelda games are usually happy go lucky type of games. With a dark touch here and there. Look back at most of them and you'll see that. Ok, Majora's Mask was a bit dark. Only with the whole doomsday atmosphere. But in general, I don't get why some think that "dark=perfection". It's like when Batman became "dark" and suddenly he was all cool and all that. In the end, he was just a guy wearing spandex and a hat with pointy ears on top. There had to more to it. Like a story. In the case of Zelda, if it doesn't deliver in the gameplay department, it fails. Regardless of graphics or anything else.

 

Unfortunately for TP as well, it straddles 2 generations of gaming, and I would rather have seen it earlier on the Cube. I’d much rather gloss over all of my issues with the game and blindly hail it to be an unequal masterpiece (just listen to the PR, that proves it!), but the fact is that I know Nintendo can do better..

 

Sheesh, nobody is asking you to hail anything. Let the PR guys speak and write what they want. They get payed for it. And TP is just another entry in the franchise. One of many. You hardly find a Zelda fan that doesn't have a favorite or who hates one and loves another. You'll get your chance to find a Zelda game that fits your needs... hopefully.

[Lens of Truth]

Fair enough. Perhaps, as you insist, TP turned-out exactly as intended, and there was never a quiver to speak of. Though I wish you wouldn't oversimplify my (essentially ambivalent) viewpoints on the game in order to dismantle them. I still enjoyed the game enormously. Hopefully for the next installment the team will try something a bit fresher (maybe I'm just getting old and jaded)..

[Anakenobi]

Fair enough. Perhaps, as you insist, TP turned-out exactly as intended, and there was never a quiver to speak of. Though I wish you wouldn't oversimplify my (essentially ambivalent) viewpoints on the game in order to dismantle them. I still enjoyed the game enormously. Hopefully for the next installment the team will try something a bit fresher (maybe I'm just getting old and jaded)..

 

Sorry about that. If you feel that TP is not your cup of tea, it's fine with me. Like I said, I have yet to meet a Zelda fan that actually loves every game from the franchise. So to read someone not liking TP or any of the other games, is not strange at all. Heck, I still find gamers who don't consider Majora's Mask part of the "main" series. But more like a spin-off that belongs with the CDi games.

 

[Lens of Truth]

: peace:

 

No probs! I think we can pat ourselves on the back for having engaged in a rare instance of civilised disagreement.

 

How anyone can dismiss MM is beyond me! Their loss i guess.

 

Btw does anyone know anything about Koji Kondo's keynote speech?? I'd love to hear some reflections from the master..

[Anakenobi]

I just met on another board, a guy who claims that Wind Waker is the worst Zelda ever produced.

 

And to prove his point, he's using an excerpt from an article from Spain that points out that Aonuma said that WW was taking the franchise to it's death. And that's why TP was made, to save it from that awful fate.

 

The site is meristation.com and they seem to have published an article that reads "Wind Waker almost killed the Zelda franchise"...

 

But didn't Aonuma actually said:

 

Moving back to Wind Waker, while the game did sell over a million units, the title trickled off in sales quickly after passing that mark. The reason Twilight Princess went with a more realistic style was because Aonuma wanted to give the North American market what they wanted. The North American market is much stronger (when talking Zelda) than the Japanese market, so the move was made. The gameplay was to be more realistic as well, when compared to Wind Waker.

 

So because the japanese market was weak, to make another WW game with that same celshading graphics was not in the cards. Aonuma needed to give western gamers what they wanted. A "realistic" Zelda.

 

So was WW going to kill the franchise? I dunno... the new DS game uses similar graphics and looks pretty good.

[pedrocasilva]

I actually like realistic Zelda better, and I'm one of those rare folks in the forums that actually likes TP more than OoT and WW. TP is in the same place as MM in my heart and that's pretty high.

 

WW was neat I really loved hot Nintendo took the risk and never criticized the game, even before it shipped, but the fan inside me was really screaming when he sawthe original Twilight Princess trailer.

 

Anyway... IMO, Zelda should keep going realistic main-games and cel shaded spin-off's. It's just a important franchise and some publics will not get drawn to a cel shaded game.

 

If I were Nintendo I'd use the Wind Waker engine in other games though, the engine is awesome, still one of the best cel shading I've ever seen, and could be refined futher. it's criminal that they aren't making use of it.

 

Some guy even did a Mother 3 on GC mockup:

 

 

 

 

Imagine a Mother 4 game on Wii with those wind waker'ish graphics, seriously, I'd be at awe.

[Anakenobi]

If I were Nintendo I'd use the Wind Waker engine in other games though, the engine is awesome, still one of the best cel shading I've ever seen, and could be refined futher. it's criminal that they aren't making use of it.

 

Just by reading Aonuma's comments on the NEGATIVE reaction some gamers had toward the cel-shaded Zelda, it's unlikely we will see them used more often. Unless he decides to share the engine with other R&D teams within Nintendo.

 

Here's hoping that they use it again!

[motion]

I don't mind if the next Zelda is realistic or cel shaded. As long as if it was realistic it looked better than TP because I find that game a bit dull, visually. Then again if I'd never played WW I probably wouldn't be saying that.