Grazza

It's odd, though. I always think Retro Studios = realistic graphics, although I am basing that on Metroid Prime, not their latest projects. To me, a Retro Studios Zelda would naturally be in the style of the Zelda Wii U demo (which I thought was fantastic). Handheld Zeldas, on the other hand, have been done in the Wind Waker style ever since they started to use polygons, and so I always imagined Zelda 3DS as very cartoony and probably done by Nintendo themselves. It'd also be great to see the full-on cel-shading again, with graphics more comparable to WW. Both styles are very agreeable, in my opinion.

I'd love to endorse that notion, but Muramasa isn't sprite-y enough for me. It's more like hand-drawn. I appreciate the thought though. Well, if it's anything like Dragon Quest IX, there won't be grumbles from me. If there's one thing I love about handhelds it's how it feels like you're entering a different world - I've felt this since Link's Awakening. The touchscreen technology makes it even more personal, as you can have collections of items, with the potential to swap them with other players. But now they have the technology to actually make it look like Wind Waker.

I reckon they should keep Zelda on handhelds very traditional, myself. Skyward Sword was massively far from the formula, and I know some people really liked it, but if that's the way the console series is going (motion control et al) I'd like to see the handheld Zeldas keep the full A, B, X, Y, L, R + twin analogue setup ("traditional controls" undersells it, I think), as well as overworlds, dungeons, structure etc... Preferably with full-on cel-shading too, continue the Wind Waker series. The other thing I'd like to see at GDC is Metroid Dread, with sprites like Zero Mission and Fusion. You just can't beat sprites for crispness, in both visuals and gameplay.

Looking forward to GDC, personally. That's usually good for handheld games. I'm hoping to see a new Zelda.

Haha, well you played the best two, @Retro_Link! I too will get Starfox now, and also Mighty Switch Force.

Following on from Retro Link's post, this could be its own topic really, but what do you think the 3DS game of the year was? Excluding DSi Ware (because it was available on the DSi), my two favourites were: 1) Pilotwings Resort This is my No.1 because it was really quite original and had a coherent feel and theme. OK, I'm a bit biased, because it introduced me to the 3DS and its stereoscopic feature, but the moment I turned it on and took a tour of Wuhu Island, I genuinely got a feeling I was experiencing something new and high-tech. Very funky music too! One reason I value this more than other 3DS software is that it truly is a superb tech demo. In many ways, flying round Wuhu Island shows what the 3DS can do more than Super Mario 3D Land or OOT. The gorgeous graphics made exploring all the islands a joy. 2) Ocarina of Time 3D This is my No.2 because, great as it is, I can't ignore the fact it's a remake. That said, it was such a pleasure to see OOT running smoother and sharper than ever. I enjoyed it more than Skyward Sword in every way - better graphics, better controls, better art style... You name it, OOT 3D was better. Also enjoyed: SFIV, DOA Dimensions, Super Mario 3D Land and (so far) Tales of the Abyss.

Honestly, I think this timeline thing is getting out of hand. Once upon a time, Nintendo could make a new Zelda game, and all they had to concentrate on was making it awesome. Nowadays, I can't help but think the Zelda series takes its own mythology too seriously. It worked once, for Wind Waker, but since then it hasn't seemed all that genuine to me. The flipside is that I actually love direct sequels, like Majora's Mask. They make sense. But having every Zelda game relate to the series' mythology and timeline means it's less likely we'll get unique, esoteric games like (for instance) Shadow of the Colossus, where a simple premise and bundles of atmosphere go a long way. Just a thought.

I went to a Church of England primary school, just because it was the best local school (which it was - I'm glad I went there). We said prayers and sang hymns in assembly, which I was told not to take too seriously. It's down to the parents to keep their children level-headed. To this day, I still think of hymns like "Cross Over the Road" and stories like "The Good Samaritan". I'm really fond of Christianity as the main religion of the UK, but I suppose that's another matter. My classmates are now all grown up and they are by far the nicest people I ever knew, with really good values. The secondary school I went to was a Comprehensive. They didn't teach you to be religious at all, but as others have said, Religious Education is taught. This is an objective, dispassionate look at various religions (or at least it's meant to be). EDIT - Oh, and about the Evolution thing. Like others have said, it hasn't traditionally been an issue in the UK, as obviously schools are meant to teach you facts. My C of E school would certainly not have told me that Evolution was false! Unfortunately, it seems to be becoming something of an issue now, with students walking out of lectures. But as far as I'm concerned, it's not an issue at all - if they don't want to learn, they must fail.

No, but I've noticed a different issue that I'm not keen on. When viewing your photo collection, you can't touch any of them without it registering as a double-click (eg. you get the option to delete it).

I agree with @Agent Gibbs. No offence intended, but think how elitist it is to say people should be onto games before they're even released. Imagine this in a different industry - a book, DVD or CD that you have to order before it's released, or you can't get a copy.

I don't want to tread on any toes, but about this final dungeon thing:

Just would rather not enter any card details. Probably over-cautious, but if I can buy a card, that's what I'd rather do.

Yes!! Got the best shield from the Boss Run. Found it quite difficult, as I don't exactly "get on" with this game particularly well, but I'm glad I got it. I decided to use a Stamina Potion and choose The Imprisoned first, as that can be frustrating if you make a small mistake. The one I find most difficult is the 2nd version of Ghirahim, so was thinking of choosing him first, but ended up getting him last! Beat him with a few hearts left. Meanwhile, my heart was beating! Looking forward to some exploring and sidequests now with the best shield on my back.

Mighty Switch Force looks fantastic and I really want it, but... still no eShop cards in shops? I'm hugely reluctant to buy points directly.

Is there beach volleyball on it? If not, I don't know what it's for!

There's a funny little thing on the way to Zelda's room (reminded me of Metal Gear Solid). Might be worth watching it on YouTube or something.

I think the 4th dungeon is the highlight of this game. Everything just works so well, and the boss made me grin for ages. Dungeon 5 and its boss is good as well. By the way, there are some good tracks in this game. I particularly liked the "dungeon clear" music and...

Now that really is a 10/10! The Twilight Princess Symphony in particular is unbelievable. I don't want to keep moaning about it, honestly I don't, but it's not normal fetch quests that I dislike. WW's Triforce hunt was great, TP's statues were fine. It's literally when collectathons and trials are set up for you. Never had a problem with any "fetch quests" until the Tears of Light thing in Twilight Princess, and that was really because it was a different gameplay mode rather than a fetch quest. The trouble is, that has continued in all the games since.

It's the classic issue of overworking something. The longer a game takes to make, the less it stays true to the original vision. That said, I have to be honest, I haven't been following this closely, and it doesn't look any worse to me. I still think they should have kept more to the original formula though, because surely when people said they wanted a new Kid Icarus, they meant they wanted a new Metroid-type game, like the old ones?

Here's what I say: let Retro make a Zelda for Wii U. Give them no restrictions whatsoever (apart from no blood and gore, obviously). They can use whatever controller they like, focus it around dungeons if they like, or not, it's up to them. At the same time, let Aonuma develop his Zelda at Nintendo (also for Wii U), and then see which one is better.

If Zelda Wii U doesn't use the Wii U controller, it will be insanity. This goes way beyond whether I like or dislike motion controls, because I don't particularly dislike them. Motion controls were the theme of the Wii, and so Skyward Sword was right to use them. The next console Zelda will be a Wii U game, and so should use the Wii U controller. And although I appreciate the posts by @Agent Gibbs, I don't believe there should be different control options, or we'll just have another Twilight Princess on our hands, which couldn't properly take advantage of either. Wii U controller all the way. Yes, motion control (broadly speaking) allows gameplay that wasn't seen before, but the reverse is also true. I'm disappointed how gamers don't miss all the gameplay developed with a traditional controller, like using the R trigger for shield control and the Mirror Shield (not seen since Wind Waker) and the C-stick for camera control (again, not seen since Wind Waker). Do people genuinely not miss that stuff? I thought it was brilliant. The Wii U tablet could have all that and go even further. Did you all watch the Zelda Wii U tech demo? You could use the screen to control the lighting, not just the inventory. Basically, the tablet is the selling point of the Wii U. It will be absolute madness if Nintendo don't design their best game to use it.

Yeah, repetition is part of what games are about, so the player can understand the pacing of it. I'm just looking forward to when I see the Wind Waker formula applied to another Zelda. Not necessarily the Sea (although I very much liked that), just how advanced it felt. I didn't know we were allowed to mention the Trials, but I didn't enjoy them either. Too much potential to spend a long time on them and then fail. That's the formula for frustrating gameplay. As I say, I can't explain myself fully, what with this being the spoiler-free thread. Maybe I should have a go though:

Yeah, I want the same thing (as OOT, MM, WW), but better. You can never know or predict the exact sequence of events, because different games are different games. I'll tell you what I want: I want atmosphere, I want exploration. I want an overworld that has been designed for pleasure, instead of an obstacle course that impedes your progress at every step. I want technical brilliance. Dungeons like Wind Waker's, that don't feel like cul-de-sacs. I actually want all the advances in controls that were made up to and including Wind Waker, but then forgotten about as though they never existed, like camera and shield control. And how about lots of throwaway things just for the fun of it? Like how you could pick up a Darknut's sword in WW and chop down columns? Or ride a hog in Twilight Princess? Extend that to other weapons and other creatures, and you'd actually have a game world with a sense of fun. Heck, you could even have towns and villages. Above all, I would just like Zelda to turn back into something more like the games I used to love so much.

What I'm trying to say is not that I dislike hand-holding. In fact, I think it's essential in this day and age (as an option, anyway). My point is that the gameplay used to be more clearly defined. If you go back to Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask, for example, you'd spend some play sessions in dungeons and some play sessions gaining access to them, travelling round the overworld, doing detective work and gaining clues. Skyward Sword, on the other hand (and this started with Twilight Princess), sets up a long series of events for you to play, but they're so different, there's no consistency to the gameplay. It's very hard to explain it in the spolier-free thread, but there are so many different modes to this game, it loses all form. I don't know, when I finished Twilight Princess, I had this disappointed realisation that, though the game felt solid (if low-tech), the Zelda magic was never going to arrive. Skyward Sword gave me a more disconcerting feeling, because many of the elements did very much feel like Zelda, and yet I still didn't like it much. It's made me question whether this is still the series I truly used to love so much. When I was playing Wind Waker, I was absolutely ecstatic, convinced that the Zelda universe was the ultimate fantasy world for me. Now, though, I don't know whether it's worth getting the next one, or - by extension of that - even the Wii U. Maybe I'm just tired after a long game.

And... finished, at around 47 hours. Phew! Not an easy game, by any means. By far the hardest 3D Zelda, which I accept is what a lot of gamers wanted. Final thoughts... It's my least favourite 3D Zelda, the only one I don't want to play again. For all Twilight Princess' faults, I played it three times, so it must have done something right. People will say gamers just say the latest one isn't as good as the last, but is it really so hard to believe that TP started the Zelda series on a downward trajectory and Skyward Sword continued it? The problem is the game just leads you on a trail... "Do this, do that, now do this". It's not that I mind hints & tips - I like them - it's just that Skyward Sword is so incredibly inconsistent and incoherent, you'd have no way of working out what to do next even if they let you. As I've said, there are some superb moments, but also many, many dull moments, including the most outrageous, blatant and boring fetch quests of the series. The motion controls themselves were fun at times, but I never got to grips with the "blocking" gameplay. In any group of enemies, my sword was bound to bang against some of their shields, and yet get through with others. It was sheer luck, and I certainly just used waggle with most of them (there were exceptions, which I won't list in this thread). So, I was wrong to think the motion controls would ruin the game for me, but there is absolutely no reason to use them in future Zeldas. It goes without saying that Wind Waker is still the masterpiece of the series, and personally, Spirit Tracks is still my favourite entry since that game. Really thought they were on the right track with that DS game, but maybe not.