Growing Pains

[Lens of Truth]

This is my first attempt at a post, so bear with me..

 

While reading many of the opinions put forth on this forum it has struck me that there’s a certain tension accompanying the release of the Wii that hasn’t been generated for any previous Nintendo console. Often viewpoints seem to swing wildly and hysterically between the extremes of euphoric praise and knee-jerk scepticism. I have to say that my own reactions to the various developments over the past few months have shared something of this schizoid character.. so I thought it would be a good idea to get off my chest some of the more confusing aspects of Nintendo’s Wii ‘strategy’..

 

I think first of all, the big N have been incredibly misleading in some of their self-generated hype. All the coquettish talk of megaton announcements and further revolutionary secrets and so on has only served to undermine the appearance of the final product. When the new controller was first revealed I was ecstatic. It seemed to point to what I had always wished for in gaming – greater interactivity and immersion, the next level of depth if you like. But as things went on Nintendo grew more and more obfuscatory about the nature of the console (supposedly holding back elements so new that, if revealed, would be quickly taken up by competitors). With hindsight we can now say that this was slightly absurd.

 

On the game front, I absolutely can’t wait for Zelda, Metoid and, perhaps most of all, Mario Galaxy. Other games such as Excite Truck and Monkey Ball look ‘fun’. And, having accepted that the mind-boggling revolution is going to be a gentler, less involved process than I thought, I’m quite happy about the unpretentious, accessible emphasis of the Wii. However, I still can’t shake the idea that it’s not just third party developers who’ve been cautiously feeling their way with the system (hence the extremely underwhelming graphics of certain titles) – Nintendo themselves seem to have been very unsure of how far to go with it. The afterthought of Twilight Princess becoming a Wii title (indeed its flagship title!) is just one example. Who knows what wonders the Wii will produce further into its lifespan.. but the fact remains that its launch and pre-release hype has been a bit of a fudge. The last thing I want to see though is for a system with such potential to be used only for its novelty appeal. A few less of the hastily thrown together fischer price mini-game things wouldn’t go amiss. I have to say also that the whole ‘Mii’ thing is just a bit patronisingly simple as well. I’m not complaining that it’s there, I just hope that these sort of incidental gimmicks don’t become the point of the whole venture.

 

Then of course there’s the whole graphics fiasco. I’m not going to rehearse the tired arguments on this subject. Suffice to say that when I first saw 360 titles like Perfect Dark and Kameo I didn’t think they were a significant step up. What has always impressed me about Nintendo’s ability to design graphics is the level of fluidity and integration that they achieve. Take a game that many on this forum have a low opinion of, like Mario Sunshine - having played it again recently I was still impressed by the quality of the animation and effects, the transitions between the different elements, and, like I say, a level of fluidity that even the better designed games on other consoles don’t often match. This goes hand in hand with the intuitiveness of the control too, so this can only be a good thing for Wii. The first party games so far look gorgeous, even with the inevitable gamecubiness of cross-overs like TP.

 

Everyone has been a bit concerned over the Wii. We’re all salivating over the prospect of a new more responsive control system. Only a fool wouldn’t be looking forward to the chance of getting to grips with a new tailor-made Mario. And there are plenty of interesting looking third party titles such as Red Steel and Elebits. But still something’s missing. I think, all things considered, it will take Nintendo (and perhaps ourselves) a little while to grow into the Wii..

[Nintenchris]

Welcome welcome welcome.

Huge first post and im not gonna lie... i was too lazy to read it all, but saying that what i did read i agree with.

[Lens of Truth]

Thanks cube game! I know I was a bit long winded. Sorry about that. Just need to get it out, if you know what I mean.

[Alan77]

Good Thread.

 

I think the reaction to the Wii (and I think someone else said this also) is like that of the reaction to the DS. People were worried and excited by it but didn't 'get' it totally. People needed to get hold of it and play it before they realised the potential. It was also seen as something that could be a total gimmick but looking at it now it's completely blown the PSP away and, more significantly, replaced the Gameboy as the number one handheld.

 

It will prob be similar with the Wii and all the fears will disappear once you've played it for a few weeks/months.

 

I only hope that, like the DS, not all games will be altered to fit the control scheme. I think Mario Kart DS is a good example where the touch-screen isn't really used much and the game is better for it. If the Wii follows that path (no innovation for the sake of innovation) it will be fine.

[Lens of Truth]

Yes. Totally agree with the DS comparison. I think it would take the weight off some of the more non-comittal third party projects if they just stuck with the classic control scheme. Not all will be capable of taking advantage of the wii mote convincingly..

 

Smash Brothers uses the traditional contol though doesn't it?

[That Guy]

Good Thread.

 

I think the reaction to the Wii (and I think someone else said this also) is like that of the reaction to the DS. People were worried and excited by it but didn't 'get' it totally. People needed to get hold of it and play it before they realised the potential. It was also seen as something that could be a total gimmick but looking at it now it's completely blown the PSP away and, more significantly, replaced the Gameboy as the number one handheld.

 

It will prob be similar with the Wii and all the fears will disappear once you've played it for a few weeks/months.

 

I only hope that, like the DS, not all games will be altered to fit the control scheme. I think Mario Kart DS is a good example where the touch-screen isn't really used much and the game is better for it. If the Wii follows that path (no innovation for the sake of innovation) it will be fine.

 

Good point. Thats one of my concerns. I just hope I don't have to play a game where I'm waving the controller about just for the sake of it.

[Alan77]

Yeah and it'll be better for it.

 

My hope is that Mario Kart uses it too (I'm a massive MK fan!!) as I really wouldn't want some type of excite-truck control scheme just for the sake of it.

 

As long as the remote is used well and wisely the wii will be great.

[DCK]

That's rubbish honestly. All Wii games have the motion controls in them 'for the sake of it', everything shown can be played via a normal control setup or via mouse/keyboard. The whole point of the Wii controls is that we control games differently, and every game that can use the Wiimote in a good way is better than an unoriginal game using the VC setup.

 

Roll on more Excite Truck controls, I'm certain playing racing games is much nicer that way. Seems to me you haven't understood the Wii yet, like you ironically said in your first post.

 

I'd feel ripped off really if Nintendo didn't use a new setup for MKWii really.

[Hellfire]

Welcome, good post.

I think most people think in black in white. It's either perfect or a total failure. People don't realise that revolutions are serious business, it takes time to get used to it and balls to do it. Graphically, there was no fiasco, Nintendo intended to do games like this and that's that.

About my reactions, I think there an incredible growth of idiots around here and I simply can't stand anymore being PC and shutting up. Sometimes I'm rude, but most times I discuss with facts, when people disregard that, well, I just insult them.

One things for sure, every time a console is about to launch everyone is very jittery.

[Lens of Truth]

By 'graphics fiasco' I meant some of the absurd responses of fans to the Wii's supposed lack of power. The graphics of most of Nintendo's games for Wii have impressed me so far. Certainly some lesser developers haven't given their games much spit and pollish, but I would guess that's because of taking time to get used to creating games for a unique contol system. The way Nintendo themselves seem to treat graphics is as an integral part of the whole experience of a game. I honestly don't think polygon pushing is really that significant anymore.. but anway, I promised myself I wouldn't go into all that stuff..

 

You're right Hellfire not to shut-up and PC-out. Forums in general can become incredibley anal whenever a contentious topic is raised.. the whole point is to discuss your views, surely.. why not let things get a bit heated occassionally?

[Fierce_LiNk]

Hello, welcome, and what an excellent post. I'm impressed.

 

I think you're right on many levels, especially about Nintendo not knowing how far they can go with Wii. In all honesty, they still have a lot of potential with the DS, and that's been out for a while now. In a way, it is quite exciting for both the consumer and industry-watcher, as well as Nintendo themselves. We're doing things we never dreamed of doing.

 

With an idea, a vision such as this, comes risk. We're all worried that this might just be a novelty. But, i still think that there is a lot more to the console than just the aspect of the controller. Think of a game like Mario Kart DS, which uses very little touch screen or dual screen useage. It uses little of these, however it uses such features as the single card download play, the 8-card wireless battle, and (perhaps more importantly) online functions. I think this idealogy can be applied to other Wii titles, including Smash Bros Brawl, which will use the classic controller, but will use the online functions of the console.

[darksnowman]

Welcome, Lens of Truth. What a mammoth first post : peace: but I did read it all (*looks at cube_game *)

 

I think alot/ all of what you said is right. People everywhere, not just on these forums, have displayed the full spectrum of emotions towards the Wii. Ive tried not to get overly carried away (though I was amazed at the beginning and my interest and anticipation spikes back up everytime theres a new bit of info released) but Im seeing things that could put people off in the longterm. Almost everyone will come around to the control scheme once they get a chance to test it and they might even get used to looking past the graphics - Im willing to do that cos DS is wonderful. However, will Nintendo and other companies be able to deliver on games that arent just a bunch of mini game type efforts? We have Zelda and Mario, but will there be a pile more?

 

We need the blend, Nintendogs isnt a game I go back to much (well, ever) but it was such a joy to play and get caught up in. Feel the Magic is good, but I dont go back to it. I wouldnt trade these games in and Im not slating them, but for all the non-games we need a healthy counter balance of real games using the controller and features to the best of their imaginitive ability.

 

What was the last great secret of the Wii? Has it been announced? Was it the speaker on the controller? The Mii's? The Wii Channels?

[ZeldaFreak]

That's rubbish honestly. All Wii games have the motion controls in them 'for the sake of it', everything shown can be played via a normal control setup or via mouse/keyboard. The whole point of the Wii controls is that we control games differently, and every game that can use the Wiimote in a good way is better than an unoriginal game using the VC setup.

 

Roll on more Excite Truck controls, I'm certain playing racing games is much nicer that way. Seems to me you haven't understood the Wii yet, like you ironically said in your first post.

 

I'd feel ripped off really if Nintendo didn't use a new setup for MKWii really.

 

Wouldn't suprise me seen as they are using the VC/GC controller setup for SSBB so anyway I doubt every nintendo wii game will use pure wii & nunchchuk controls as its easier to play cartain genres of games with the vc controller

[Alan77]

Yeah really could you have imagined trying to control your Kart with the touch-screen on the DS.. would have been terrible. That's what I mean by doing something for the sake of it. Some games just won't work well with the new remote and some games will be revolutionised by it.... I think Nintendo got it right with the DS and I think they'll get it right with the Wii if they stick to a similar blueprint.

 

That's rubbish honestly. All Wii games have the motion controls in them 'for the sake of it', everything shown can be played via a normal control setup or via mouse/keyboard. The whole point of the Wii controls is that we control games differently, and every game that can use the Wiimote in a good way is better than an unoriginal game using the VC setup.

 

Roll on more Excite Truck controls, I'm certain playing racing games is much nicer that way. Seems to me you haven't understood the Wii yet, like you ironically said in your first post.

 

I'd feel ripped off really if Nintendo didn't use a new setup for MKWii really.

 

 

I bet you'd feel more ripped off if the control scheme ruined the game because it wasn't appropriate!!!!!

 

NO game should ever have something put in for the sake of it.. it should only be included if it enhances the game. I agree with you when you say 'every game that can use the Wiimote in a good way is better than an unoriginal game using the VC setup' - that goes without saying but undoubtedly there are also going to be poor examples of wii-mote usage and that's what I was referring to and also what I think some people are worried about. I'm thinking mostly of third party cash-ins and first-party titles that everyone knows and loves (MK, SSB etc) that don't really suit the control scheme. I don't want to see them just having some half-arsed controls tacked-on etc

 

I don't see how you can say 'I'm certain playing racing games is much nicer that way' until you've played it.... some might do but others might not.

[DCK]

What the hell is wrong with the Excite Truck setup for Mario Kart?

 

I'm sorry, I just don't know what you're afraid of. Seems to me you're scared of the Wii... What is the added value of Mario Kart on the Wii with a traditional setup? How can Nintendo sell that on their new console? You sound exactly like the people who are scared of Zelda Wii because of the swordswinging.

 

Brawl using the VC setup is quite dodgy too, but I suppose considering they tried to use the Wiimote for it and it didn't work, this is for the best. Fighting games might be a genre not suited for the Wiimote, but racers most definetely are.

[Dr.Boo]

Welcome to the forums.

I think many people are going to either totally love the Wii at the very start because it's so new, and get tired of it a certain time after, or people will have difficulties gaining control over the Wiimote at start, but totally find it awesome a bit later when they're used to it

[Alan77]

What the hell is wrong with the Excite Truck setup for Mario Kart?

 

I'm sorry, I just don't know what you're afraid of. Seems to me you're scared of the Wii... What is the added value of Mario Kart on the Wii with a traditional setup? How can Nintendo sell that on their new console? You sound exactly like the people who are scared of Zelda Wii because of the swordswinging.

 

Brawl using the VC setup is quite dodgy too, but I suppose considering they tried to use the Wiimote for it and it didn't work, this is for the best. Fighting games might be a genre not suited for the Wiimote, but racers most definetely are.

 

I'm just stating an objective view. I'm not scared of anything, if I was I wouldn't have pre-ordered 2 Wii's (to make sure I def get one at launch!) I'm just voicing an opinion that I think quite a few people are feeling that, as I stated above, as long as the Wii-Mote is used well it will be an amazing thing but I just don't want to see games made to fit the remote that don't suit it. Maybe MK will be brilliant with the remote, who knows but I only use this as an example as it's a massive franchise and I would hate to see it lose something or turn out to be a poor game because it was forced to fit the remote. You even back up what I'm saying yourself: ''but I suppose considering they tried to use the Wiimote for it and it didn't work, this is for the best''. Exactly. As long as this attitude is always applied everyone will be happy.

 

I have high hopes for the Wii and am really looking forward to it but I think your idea of cramming reworked remote controls into every game regardless is a little naive.

[Sarka]

I would say that developers have take advantage of the Wii's capabilities much more than they did pre-DS launch and more than developers still do with the DS. Excitetruck, Super Monkey Ball, Rayman, Mario Galaxy, Wii Sports and Trauma Centre all use the Wii's special controls to give great games which have a lovely control system. So I wouldn't say anyone is scared of it.

 

I would like all Wii games to use the Wii controls, I think that there is ways of enhancing every gaming experience using the remote. I'm positive there is a way MK can be done using it, either using the Excitetruck control scheme or another way. The reason they did MKDS with "normal" controls is - imo - the DS is just a normal console with some extra stuff stuck on. While, I believe the Wii is completely new and that Nintendo should be able to get all of their franchises done using the remote. Infact, I will probably not buy Brawl because it will be similar to Melee and I want new experiences! Not the same as last gen.

[DCK]

Point taken Alan77. I'm just getting tired of people that dismiss a Wiimote setup before playing it, as if the Wiimote causes weird and bad controls for games. I got a bit annoyed on your Mario Kart example as its controls could be perfect:

That just causes drooling with me.