Wii Gamers Are Hardcore Gamers

[Zero]

I can guarantee you that you are one of the three. That you like games from several categories, you belong to the "highest" you get games from.

 

Anyhow, I'm not really talking about people, my focus is on GAMES.

 

I don't see how everyone is one of the three. If I like a game then of course im gonna play it a lot. It's like anything else you like. Does that make me hardcore or mainstream. I doubt it. And I don't think I play games casually either if I can spend a day playing a game I like.

 

I know you focus was on games but I just felt I should say my bit.

[Jonnas]

It's true that this casual gaming thing makes most devs go for the easy money and make a quick mini game cash in, but in all honesty, DS is perfect for FPS too and we don't see any there either and it's a hardcore console if there is such a thing. Also MoH Wii is good, it doesn't matter if the rest of the series is shit, the game is still good. It is indeed a BIG publisher problem and mostly their fault, but you want Nintendo to give us core games? TP, Brawl, Excite Truck, Super Paper Mario,Galaxy,Prime, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart are what? Even Wario Ware is fucking hardcore if anything, any casual gamer won't touch it with a 20m stick, because it's weird ass shit. Nintendo has been giving us all the games their audience, their "hardcore" audience asked from them and in record time. Also, Nintendo little note, keep making Mario Golf, Tennis and Football because they're awesome.

It's an opportunity to breathe new life into the market and it's normal companies do what they're doing and it's shit (I'm looking at you Ubi!),but in in time, I hope we'll se more balance, just like what happened with DS and it's happening, at least it seems like it.

 

If you are a game dev and you indeed think in those 3 terms and about those 3 terms, then you're a part of the problem honestly.

 

Each day I respect you more, Boss. Even if I still disagree with the "Hardcore" concept.

 

I'm hating mini-game compilations too, but to say Nintendo has been neglecting a "Hardcore" audience, it's ridiculous.

 

Am I "Hardcore" because I played games like Fire Emblem, Metroid Prime and Tales of Symphonia? Then how am I so interested in games like Excitetruck and Elite Beat Agents, which can be easily considered "casual", or even "mainstream"? (yet another term)

[darkjak]

If you are a game dev and you indeed think in those 3 terms and about those 3 terms, then you're a part of the problem honestly.

 

Gaming is a BUSINESS, unlike what many people, mostly pirates, think. We have to think of an audience when we create games. Because of the Wii, you have to think of a brand new audience to please: the casuals. Basically, the less advanced a game is, the more people can play it. The games industry needs to make money to survive, just like any other industry. We are professionals, who deserve to be able to make a living on making games.

I have a pirate friend who thinks that all games should be either funded "by alternate means" or made as a hobby (aka, a nerd sits in his basement after school, and makes a game), and I couldn't disagree more. Of course, I'm hoping to start an indy development company, so I won't have to work on these booring games, but chances are bigger I'll have to work for someone else for many year before I get the cash.

 

I've got a Software engineering test in 15 minutes, so we'll continue this debate later.

[Hellfire]

Each day I respect you more, Boss. Even if I still disagree with the "Hardcore" concept.

Thank you, I'll give you a raise :P I hate the hardcore concept, I hate it with passion, I just use it here for dicussion's sake, because people know what I mean by it.

 

 

darkjak, of course it's a business and publishers and producers need to know the audience so they know what kind of game to make, but if they have a simplistic vision of their audience, it just aggravates the situation. When making a game, you just need to know "This game is for those who wanna have a quick burst of fun" or "this one is for arcade fans", etc.. dumbing it down to 3 groups is bad for everyone.

[Domo Kun]

Mmm...

 

But all companies work by imagining niches in the market. Coffee companies imagine the typical Starbucks and Nescafe buyer and market their products towards them. Games companies have realised they can put people in boxes and it's working for them. Someone who buys brain training and wii fit is more likely to buy nintendogs than call of duty. I own all four of these games, so I span the boxes, (as do most people who like games enough to join a gaming forum) but I prefer call of duty to all those games put together. Nintendo knows who I am, and it's because of people like me that they haven't given up on zelda and mario, but also know people like my girlfriend, who's doesn't like to be in the same room as someone playing call of duty.

 

Really just think of your typical football fan- they're unlikely to, but could be female, they're unlikely to, but could be a hippie. So that's why you see adverts for playstations, beer and credit cards on the football pitches, not perfume and folk music albums.

 

If companies didn't think like this they wouldn't make half as much money.

 

 

As for 'hardcore gamer' as a definition. I think it's a useful phrase in that it describes people who like games a lot more than the average joe. Just like film buff and food lover. It doesn't make you a better person than anyone else though.

[darkjak]

Thank you, I'll give you a raise :P I hate the hardcore concept, I hate it with passion, I just use it here for dicussion's sake, because people know what I mean by it.

 

 

darkjak, of course it's a business and publishers and producers need to know the audience so they know what kind of game to make, but if they have a simplistic vision of their audience, it just aggravates the situation. When making a game, you just need to know "This game is for those who wanna have a quick burst of fun" or "this one is for arcade fans", etc.. dumbing it down to 3 groups is bad for everyone.

 

There are plenty of more niches, but these are a rank of how advanced the players are. When I wrote my game idea, I wrote that my audience was "First person shooter players who truly want to experience the terror of war, and are tired of allways playing as Americans". But I also had to add that my game was for the core players, since gameplay would be so complex.

 

If you get the go ahead of making a casual game, the publishers are going to pretty much shut you down if you end up making a game that's too long or has too advanced controls.

[Jamba]

Mmm...

 

But all companies work by imagining niches in the market. Coffee companies imagine the typical Starbucks and Nescafe buyer and market their products towards them. Games companies have realised they can put people in boxes and it's working for them. Someone who buys brain training and wii fit is more likely to buy nintendogs than call of duty. I own all four of these games, so I span the boxes, (as do most people who like games enough to join a gaming forum) but I prefer call of duty to all those games put together. Nintendo knows who I am, and it's because of people like me that they haven't given up on zelda and mario, but also know people like my girlfriend, who's doesn't like to be in the same room as someone playing call of duty.

 

Really just think of your typical football fan- they're unlikely to, but could be female, they're unlikely to, but could be a hippie. So that's why you see adverts for playstations, beer and credit cards on the football pitches, not perfume and folk music albums.

 

If companies didn't think like this they wouldn't make half as much money.

 

 

As for 'hardcore gamer' as a definition. I think it's a useful phrase in that it describes people who like games a lot more than the average joe. Just like film buff and food lover. It doesn't make you a better person than anyone else though.

 

Exactly. I still can't see why people get so upset by the term "hardcore". It was used quite a while ago now to decribe the kind of games that the Playstation was getting and the N64 wasn't. It was originally used by publishers and marketting people to get a handle on their audience and it is just a labe, a word. That term got taken up and perpetuated by both the gaming press and by gmaers themselves.

 

It is a term that dates back from an era when the industry was a lot simpler and publishers very very rarely use the term. I wish people would stop having a go at them when it's really the press and gamers themselves that use the term, not to mention that people here are over reacting anyway.

[Hellfire]

It's not the term itself that matters, it's the importance and relation to quality people give it.

[ultrajamie]

This is kind of a non-story...

 

 

yes the gamers on wii are probably just the same as they;ve also been... but there's a lot of people playing wii who aren't gamers!

 

I'm never quite sure why people need to justify this too much... if anyone is missing out on Wii because they perceive it not 'hardcore' enough then, well, their loss.

[darkjak]

This is kind of a non-story...

 

 

yes the gamers on wii are probably just the same as they;ve also been... but there's a lot of people playing wii who aren't gamers!

 

I'm never quite sure why people need to justify this too much... if anyone is missing out on Wii because they perceive it not 'hardcore' enough then, well, their loss.

In a games developers eyes: Casual gamers = non-gamers

In the eyes of the people who have been debating here so far: Casual gamers = non-gamers

In the eyes of media: Casual gamers = non-gamers

 

We're not talking about gamers missing out on Wii because they think it's too casual. We're talking about Wii gamers who are missing out on games because publishers and developers consider the Wii a casual console.

[ultrajamie]

In a games developers eyes: Casual gamers = non-gamers

In the eyes of the people who have been debating here so far: Casual gamers = non-gamers

In the eyes of media: Casual gamers = non-gamers

 

We're not talking about gamers missing out on Wii because they think it's too casual. We're talking about Wii gamers who are missing out on games because publishers and developers consider the Wii a casual console.

 

But surely it wasn't traditional gaming that drew those people to the wii anyway... or indeed the Nintendo brand before they repositioned it.

[darkjak]

But surely it wasn't traditional gaming that drew those people to the wii anyway... or indeed the Nintendo brand before they repositioned it.

 

Of course not. But now when the Wii is leading the market more and more core gamers are buying Wii's. No gamer is more core than us game dev students, and practically everyone who owns a current format also owns a Wii. There's an army of us out there who want some more core games.

 

Also, people who are using the claim that developers were watching the Wii before making investments: I have not seen a trace of these investments, apart from No More Heroes, Zack and Wicki and a rare few other. Every developer out there should after six months of constant "out of stock, pre order only"-status for the Wii have realised that the format would do well.