OVERLORD

With 75+ GC titles I can wait. I still have my PC to fall back on. :happy: Just hated some parts of the GC journey. It's been a bumpy ride! With Zelda TP delayed still further it's turning into a Greek tragedy! Just don't want the same poor marketing effort for REVO! Whilst Nintendo strive to innovate gaming. Nintendo Marketing need lessons from all the above! :no: Thanks for chat. Good to know differing opinions don't necessarily have to descend into flaming. These contrasting articles give me some hope:- http://www.gamesfirst.com/index.php?id=682 http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=685

Whilst Toyota as a brand couldn't establish brand recognition with regard to prestige in the past. I still remember Jeremey Clarkson linking most of their cars to Granny brigade. Toyota's involvement in Rallying and now F1 have countered many of these perceptions. Furthering this drive for excellence & recognition Lexus have established Toyota in Luxury arena http://www.lexus.com/mccartney/?s_ocid=20275. By associating the brand with sucess they have elevated themselves beyond merely being another large car manufacture. But one that make desirable cars for both young and old. This kind of sponsorship wouldn't be the same if it said presented by Toyota! I doubt many could imagine McCartney driving a Camry for a start! Both brands compliment one another the Sponsored event and the target audience. That's where the problem lies. Nintendo's audience of yesteryear have grown up. Nintendo haven't made that jump with them. They put more emphasis on typical Nintendo titles and just leave other mature games to their own devices. These have to rely more on word of mouth more so than the likes of Donkey Konga and others which get priority! Anyone see any Ads for Killer 7 or Geist? Even if GC was still @ forefront of Nintendo's thoughts I don't think they'd even bother! That's a pity because when the good games come out as previously mentioned they arrive well below the radar of the gaming conciousness of most casual gamers! 3rd parties certainly don't want to see all their effort going to waste! So stories like Viewtiful Joe, Killer 7 & RE4 rather than being the exception become the norm. Out of all 3rd party providers Capcom should be hailed and not derided as some previously did whenever a new announcement underlined Capcom's predicament ie Poor sales of games on GC.

Nintendo has much the same problem that companies like Disney and Toyota had! Whilst both Parent companies choose to stick to what they do best. Both have evolved the business where previously they had failed. They have strengthened their brand by sucessfully introducing new IP for todays audience and customers. Customers they could not previous target because of these misconceptions. Whilst Toyota previously failed to establish themselves in the luxory sector. Creating Lexus introduced the brand to a new userbase. Same goes for Disney's collaborations with Pixar! This applies to many who may have outgrown Mickey, Donald & Goofey. Nintendo in comparison to Sony and MS has done little or neither of the above with regard home console market. Both of these companies have challenged Nintendo in their core business and Nintendo remains in a state of paralysis. They may loose more marketshare because of it. I'm certainly glad they have plugged some of the damage on handheld market by having 3 tiers ie GBA Micro, GBA/SP & DS. This has even successfully sandwiched PS2/PSP onslaught in some regard. Now they need to apply this preasure with more vigour! As for Kylie. Not that I consider myself a fan but there is much to admire! :lmao: Music would be way down my list! I used her as example because she has established a long music career which has outlasted some more talented from her generation! There are a lot of people who survive by selling crap. Usiually they're the ones with biggest hand in marketting! Just look @ MS or EA! :p

Marketing is not just about throwing money into it. Just look @ IT projects worldwide for examples on bad strategy and planning. Many high profile projects become money pits and are a strain on a companies resources! What is kiddie in somes view can still establish a cult following! Just look @ Simpsons, South Park, Ren & Stimpy! Though I'd try to avoid Animaniacs! I have to admit I watched quite a bit of Ant & Dec's SMTV programmes in the past with most of my kids for the cartoons and sometimes even the sexual inuendo believe it or not! This programme certainly didn't target solely kids. Even the likes of Jerry Springer hardly what you'd call kiddie made appearance! A lot went straight over the majority of the audience ie kids heads but that's what made Ant & Dec far supeior to Dick & Dom or MOM! These are pure crass in my opinion. It doesn't take much goodwill to give games or consoles away as a prizes. How many PS2 games consoles or games have I seen on same derided kiddie shows! How many awards did SMTV show collect? Here's the answer http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267217/awards Not all were soley kiddie awards either! LG isn't what I call a tier 1 brand name like Sony yet they sponsor ITV F1 coverage. Who would have imagined this when they were still called Goldstar a few years ago? That's 16 races a year for prestige by association. I now just look for the cartoons when they are on. Don't tell me the likes of X-MEN, Fantastic Four, Max Steal, Captain Scarlett et al are purely for kids. This is what I grew up on. I'm so glad they still have the following they enjoyed all those years ago. Re-image helps somes of these after a major blockbuster film release no doubt. This was why I didn't say money in marketing was the problem. I think the problem in marketing are those people responsible for marketing! You don't need loads of cash for this. Just effective ideas. Most great ideas don't necesarilly cost the most. You can't put a value to common sense! Product placement cost a lot less than most Ad campaigns. Just look @ how the Film industry has excelled in this respect! For example RE4. A film like RE Apocalypse comes long which you know has some link to your IP. It would help you if you advertise then. Either a trailer of RE4 or poster ads in cinemas when this film comes out. Even tagging trailer to DVD release would help. Not the cross-country deal we had @ some obscure locations! Most people in gaming who wanted this game had already made up their minds. The game had already generated the momentum there for the sales it achieved and more. This sort of advertising would target new potential customers or counter previous preconceptions. It would counter the negative perception Nintendo suffers now! An effective company would get some relationship going with such an event as explained above for RE4. Sponsor Film premieres where you know people go to be seen. Have your demo booths there while people wait for the main event. This would be more effectual than leaving it to a retailer like Game. Who show a distinct lack of any commitment in promoting your products! You'd be better off placing your demo booths in a retailer like TESCO's. I'm sure whilst most mature gamers do the weekly shop those playing would get them to notice Nintendo more! After all isn't it more likely these same customers are the ones Nintendo should be targetting. Look how many companies Sponsor Sports. They don't necesarilly have anything to do with the sport in question. Even the post game/race chats are now littered with company logos. Just look @ Football or F1 racing. I'll use AMD for example. Whilst they may not influence the IT industry to same extent as Intel (Intels marketing budget would probably dwarf most countries GDP alone) AMD now appear to be making in roads, although a good product in the 1st instance also helps. Good effective product placement helps. Sponsoring gaming events help. Sponsoring Ferrrari team @ a time (A team that was winning) speaks volumes for some who don't see AMD as a competitor. Ferrari may not have won anything this season but AMD have now covered this. AMD now sponsor FIA the governing body. Perception can be countered by being effectual and not accepting the status quo. Another example. How many people took Kiley Minogue seriously as a music Artiste after leaving neighbours? Some still don't! Now fastfoward a few years. How many people saw Kiley Minogue lingerie AP Ad 1st hand? I bet a lot more know about this 2nd hand, off Net than actually those who saw it @ Cinema! People are still discussing it. I saw it recently again on C4. Several years after the original promotion. She has reinvented herself with her maturity and no doubt her new found confidence. Soap star turned Pop princess Kiley Minogue had changed the perception people had about her with a single stroke! Did AP the lingerie firm or Kiley have more marketing clout than Nintendo? There is another doubt attributable to Nintendo today. Lack of Confidence. Retailers lack it. Fans lack it. It's Nintendo's resposibility to reinvent and re-establish this confidence. Effective marketing! Now there's a thought. Whilst retailers were falling all over themselves not to support Nintendo especially GC. Nintendo should have countered this perception by seeking effective suitors! So what if Dixons group pulled out. Nintendo should have seeked out new ways to generate business. TESCO's are very effective @ what they do. Look @ their marketshare! I just have to look @ the number of emails I get from this company a week! And I already shop there! Not to mention all the different schemes they concoct just for me to dispense more of my hard earned cash. In reaching this leadership goal Tesco's constantly reinvent themselves. They have gotten to know their customers! It has got to the point where they now target me the customer more effectively in their promotions. Nolonger am I getting money off things I have never purchased. They now get me buying more of the things I value not the other way round. You have just again highlighted Nintendo's problem their past glory. I don't have any previous Ninty experience or history to compare. I 'm just going by my experience now. This lack of previous Nintendo gaming only made me want to invest my money in buying most of these games even if they were poor in comparison to games of the past or only the same, eg Starfox Adventures & Assault. Hence I certainly have a number of games which although were pivotal in past Nintendo gaming failed miserably on GC. Even new games @ time of GC launch failed to generate the sales they deserved because they weren't traditional Nintendo type games. eg Eternal Darkness. Where would Timesplitter 2 stand amongst GC games? Failure in sales cannot be attributed solely to Nintendo but some of the fans seemed hard to please in this regard. In fact these pivitol games show a steep decline on GC compared to N64 for instance. Just look @ Mario, Pokemon & Starfox games for GC for example. People keep killing the goose that laid the golden egg in my opinion. Even when Nintendo try to change peoples preconception this effort isn't reflected in sales. Look @ current games like Geist. No doubt this will still have a hard time with some!

Thanks for reply. I just think Nintendo have failed to follow through with some of their ideas. Online presence being a prime example! No GC sponsoring of Family oriented TV programming could be another. Yet look @ DS sponsoring on C4. Most of this I wouldn't consider Nintendo target audience either. They'd have been better off sponsoring Sat/Sun morning shows which feature Nintendo IP like Pokemon, Beyblade et al during prime time family hours. This is where pester power lies for Ninty fans. Not after the watershed like they are doing now! GBA/DS play would shore up the lack of GC content by providing GBA/DS games whilst we suffer GC delays. DS touch input could be put to greater use as well if you ask me! What was the idea Ninendo had to extend life of GC? Rumoured about year ago! They mentioned something a while back. Once again they didn't execute! Now tHAT XMAS is here where are Ninty Hardware packs! For one PSP you could buy 3 Nintendo consoles. THere must plenty still gathering dust! For many families this could be a godsend! I know as I have three kids. Things weren't pretty having just GC when they all want to play games. So now I have a GBA, a GBA/SP as well as GC. Sorted!

What's wrong with all above? I see no evidence either camp know what the other is doing. Far less justify there continued existence. Whilst games wise Nintendo excells. They have much to learn in these areas! There have been too many missed opportunities for Gamecube this generation! So what if GC had no ability to play DVD's. This isn't the business that would benefit Nintendo. Selling more games do more for Nintendo than any other company. Apart from linking GBA to GC for certain games. Nintendo demonstrated that it can play all GBA games very admirably. Why weren't these games pumped up to max when played on GC. PC emulators from 3rd parties have demonstrated this is achievable. Instead of going around with big stick Nintendo should have learned lessons from those that were successful and build upon it not settle for same. This would benefit Nintendo in both camps. Imagine if GBA games could play on GC out of the box without additional cost of buying a seperate player to achieve the same. This needn't apply prevoiusly but new consoles could have this built in. Nintendo wouldn't need to discount because they'd have added value to GC. Nintendo see Revolution as a Virtual machine for playing past Ninty games. But fail to exploit current IP! This idea may not have been viable before but I'm sure this could be done now. Have they trully expoilted this capability? GBA/SP and DS have kept Nintendo in the game. Why not capitalise on your major strengths? Where is a DS player for GC? I'm sure we could have new gaming idea's now.Using current technology and not have to wait for Ninentdo's controller to achieve new ways to play! Why haven't they assimilated GBA/DS player tech into GC? This would be better option near GC's end of life than still incorporating a useless broadband modem port within a console with no online presence! Nintendo need to rethink strategy and not just let things stagnate the way they are heading. Just look beyond Zelda TP software wise and there isn't any strategy! Ninty fans will have to cling on to every misstep, games delayed yet again or suffer the indignation of games being cancelled. Haven't we suffered enough? The hardware has already been proven & tested. Nintendo need to use it now not tomorrow. The comparison with Apple IPOD by some can also be applied to GC not just Revolution. GC should be hub for all Nintendo tech. The Swiss army knife. Not the spare wheel it has become. Rant over!

No wonder GC is where it is today! Discussion and debating ones opinion is one thing but chastisement or name calling is petulant to say the least. Please keep the personal attacks for another site! Especially as this is primarily a Nintendo fan site. Anyone would think some here aren't true Nintendo fans This sort of thing is becoming typical within Gamecube forums everywhere I seem to visit these days! Some visiting this thread would think most hardcore Nintendo fans are Nintendo's worst enemy not the other consoles or the poor 3rd party ports to the GC we have had to endure in it's lifespan. All above are personal accounts with little or no facts to back them up. Most are subjective insights based on too much of past Nintendo glory! I have 75+ games and there are still games out there for me to collect like some of those mentioned in this topic and games still yet to be released. I have games based in most genres not just a select few. Although I haven't invested much in RPG type games. Not a great fan of this unfortunately. No doubt I am missing out on some corkers there. Gamecube isn't a letdown for me personally and yes I also bought it for my kids. So what! This is why. Most muliplatform games are best served on PC platform. They generally come out 1st on PC and games are usually way cheaper! You can also find some good mods to extend the life of some of these as well. PC also serves my Multiplayer needs well. I'm not tied to an expensive tarrif solely for gaming! I bought my GC for Nintendo games not PS2, XBOX or PC type games. That's the difference! It's not about how many game titles are available it's about the quality of the games out there. I'm still having fun with some of the games I initially bought with my GC over 2 years ago. Some people I know have bought all 3 consoles. One guy in particular even bought PSP as apposed to DS! He even bought GC just for RE4 because @ time Capcom said it wouldn't be releasing it on any other platform! He buys only a select few titles and only buys another title once he's finished it Some of these games within weeks of buying he sells barely having touched it because it wasn't the experience he looked for in a game :shock: No wonder out of the 3 Nintendo do best with the little resources they have. The other 2 companies don't make enough games to subsidise the huge hardware development cost! Selling a console is one thing feeding it is quite another. Many people eat the Sony/MS McDonald meals with little disregard for the quality of the produce. Whilst I have dined their many times myself. I know I'll get a better experience eating @ a Nintendo restaurant!

Not strictly a Japanese title but only releasing Winning Eleven in Japan was a crime against Europe the home of Football not just GC owners. Yet it comes to DS! Good move Konami. Let's hope they don't repeat this fiasco.