Etrian Odyssey I, II & III - first person dungeoneering

[Ike]

Play Asia have the US versions of the DS games on special offer for £15.42 + p&p. Says they won't get stock until 1 -2 weeks. Haven't checked if these are the cheapest prices mind. :P

 

Etrian Odyssey I

 

Buy Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard

 

Buy Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City

[Grazza]

Thanks Ike. I believe they're being reprinted and Play Asia are just waiting for that. News to come on this...

[Ike]

Thought they were getting a reprint, wasn't sure when though.

 

Tried the EOIV demo which got me in the mood for playing EOII so I think I'll be starting it soon.

[Grazza]

Tried the EOIV demo which got me in the mood for playing EOII so I think I'll be starting it soon.

 

If all goes well, I'll be joining you!

 

I don't think there's a thread for it though? We'll have to make one.

[Ike]

Ah cool, will hold off for a while then.

 

Was just going to use this one, but if you want a new one go ahead. :P

[Grazza]

I just thought, there are threads for the other three games. Etrian Odyssey II is the only one without its own thread, and it deserves one without me moaning about the Primevil! Watch this space... (the darn thing probably won't arrive now!)

[Grazza]

@Ike

 

Etrian Odyssey I, II & III arrived today! (I'm not going to play the first one again, but it was a pack.)

 

I was going to take a photo of them, but my camera has broken, so I sent a low-res one on Letterbox instead. Am currently having a browse through the instruction manual before playing. See you in the labyrinth!

[Ike]

Cool, that was fast.

 

I probably won't be able start until the weekend, feel free to start though.

[Grazza]

OK, here we go (I apologise if the mods think this should be a separate thread but, thinking about it, it might only be me and Ike playing it. Please thread rip if necessary. No offence intended.)...

 

Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard

 

In 1989 I went into an arcade and, much to my surprise, found Double Dragon II - the sequel to my most beloved coin-op of the day. Though it looked familiar, the moves and controls were completely new, and thus I didn't get very far. To this day, I have not played it again.

 

In 1992 I went into Virgin Games and, just as surprisingly, found Golden Axe II, the sequel to my favourite Megadrive cartridge. Though I quite enjoyed it (you had to get your money's worth out of £34.99 games!), my excitement fell a little bit flat when I realised it was very, very similar to the first game - just not quite as good.

 

I mention these two because Etrian Odyssey II gives me a very similar feeling. The characters in the town are not quite as well-drawn. The enemies are similar, but not quite as good. The FOEs on 3F are the same as the corresponding ones in the first game. Not that you can fight them, because they are way too strong for you when you first encounter them (again, like the previous game!), but then FOEs in general are best avoided at first, as they no longer give EXP.

 

The main thing that reminded me of Double Dragon II is that the moves are very different. The 5-turn buffs, like Immunize and Defender are completely absent. As far as I'm aware, the Troubador (Bard) is the only character that can buff, but even he loses Relaxing (the "song" that restores your TP). Some of the strongest attacks have apparently also been weakened, meaning you can no longer necessarily rely on Crush or Apollo.

 

But then apparently some of the other moves have been improved, such as Climax. As for gathering items, I was surprised that a Survivalist can only Take, Mine or Chop five of each item instead of twenty. Also, the first Mission on 1F (the typical "map the forest" type task) is rock hard, and you could very easily fail it! Make sure you have decent armour and healing abilities!

 

All in all, I'm not saying I don't like it, but it's going to take quite a different playing style.

[Ike]

Did you enter the password from EOI? Mine's a lot longer then the space I have in EOII.

 

Edit: PAL > NTSC password doesn't work... oh well.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Ike

[Grazza]

Yeah, I would have done though. That said, I never noticed a password in Etrian Odyssey.

[Ike]

You got one when you finish the game and you can view it from the options screen. Not that it matters since it doesn't work anyway.

 

Picked up my copy preowned since I found it for £6 at a local Grainger Games, thought I had started a new game on it before but the characters didn't seem to be named anything that I would pick so I just started again since I didn't remember anything and I was totally confused. Didn't look like the previous owner got very far though.

 

You weren't kidding you can die on the first mission, because I died. Stupid guard wouldn't let me past to revive my team. Good job it saves your map data as I only had a little bit left. Grinding takes ages as well, normally level 1 > 2 is pretty quick in RPGs, but not this one.

[Grazza]

You weren't kidding you can die on the first mission, because I died. Stupid guard wouldn't let me past to revive my team.

 

Yeah, that last aspect of it was particularly annoying. Also, I thought the task was simply to get back to the starting point. I did that, and the guard said I hadn't mapped enough! And yet you don't have to map it all (the area on the right), just whatever the game considers "enough".

 

Grinding takes ages as well, normally level 1 > 2 is pretty quick in RPGs, but not this one.

 

Thought it was just me.

 

On a happier note, I have found something about this game I really like - Auto-battle! Just tap L and it just does normal attacks for you, very quickly too. You can get through three turns in no time.

 

Watch out for Chop/Mine/Take points. The developers thought it'd be fun if you were sometimes ambushed by an overly-powerful monster. :wtf:

 

Some thoughts on the classes:

 

Survivalist - Absolutely essential, in my opinion. I was only using one for Chop/Mine/Take, but then I found out about the monster ambushes. If only I had maxed-out Ambush and Sagacity first (which you can do by Level 12, as it takes 15 points including the Agility pre-req). Oh well, I know what to do now. I can't see my party not having a Survivalist.

 

Landsknecht - To me a "warrior" is pretty essential, but I don't really know which axe skill to max-out. I'm going for Brawn, as it has the highest pre-req (and the disadvantage of going last), so I'm hoping it's worth it. Silencer would also be pretty useful.

 

Protector - I really like protectors/paladins in general, but I'm not convinced one still has a place in Etrian Odyssey II. His defence hardly seems any better than the others, and without Defender I'm forced to rely on his other skills. I regret going for Front Guard, Back Guard and All Guard, because he's just not tough enough to take it at the moment. I'm hoping he'll prove his worth when I've maxed-out Shields and Vitality (which I think I should have done first).

 

Dark Hunter - I hear a Dark Hunter is pretty much essential for this game. I'm going for the binding skills + Climax. Maybe Bait and Magibait much later on if I have the skill points.

 

Medic - Supposedly, the Medic is not so essential this time (War Magus can heal), but they are well worth using in my opinion. Got Cure, Salve, Refresh and Revive at the moment. Am definitely going to have to Rest or Retire this one later on though, in order to swap to Cure 3, Salve 3 etc. I am missing Immunize, but I hope Phoenix will make up for it.

 

Alchemist - I started off using an Alchemist instead of a Survivalist, but their high TP cost makes them much harder to justify this time round. Shame, as I'm sure I'll need one for some of the conditional drops.

 

Gunner - Think I'm going to need one sooner or later, but I don't know who it will be instead of.

 

Troubador - I think I'll need their buffs for the boss fights but, again, I don't know who instead of. Without Relaxing, they don't help you throughout the Labyrinth as much.

 

...

 

Just completed the 1st Stratum.

 

Ice.

 

That and bindings will be useful for the 1st boss.

 

Edited February 4, 2013 by Grazza
Automerged Doublepost

[Grazza]

Quite enjoying it now. I'm using:

 

Landsknecht - because you need some attack

Dark Hunter - for her binds + Climax

Survivalist - because I want Ambush + Sagacity (plus Chop/Mine/Take)

Alchemist - brought him back because I'm the type who likes to get all the elemental/conditional drops

Medic - seems the best healer at the moment

 

So, I'm pretty satisfied with that. As much as I'd like to use a Protector, his attack is not much good and he no longer has any really good moves. Maybe I'll need him for the dragons, but we'll see. This team is working for me now and making me enjoy the game more.

[Grazza]

OK, I've completed the game and beaten every post-game boss, so here goes...

 

Etrian Odyssey II Review

 

I would say Etrian Odyssey II has a steep learning curve, but that's not quite true. Even if you know what you're meant to be doing, you simply do not have the stats to pull it off, nor the TP (this series' equivalent of MP), until a significant way into the game. Steep difficulty curve? It's more like a cliff! Most of the best moves from the first entry have been removed, like Immunize, Defender and the TP-restoring Relaxing. Almost the only character who can buff is the Troubadour (Bard) and if you use too many of those, some of the bosses will get angry and defeat you even faster. Perhaps worst of all, FOEs no longer give EXP, so there is absolutely no benefit in encountering one until you are strong enough to go back and get their drops - in fact, they are almost certain to defeat you all on the spot when you first fight them. I battled my way through the first two Strata (ie. the first ten floors) thinking to myself "This is a bad game."

 

That's not to say there are no improvements. Auto-battle is handy, and Resting (which gives you back your skill points if you spent them unwisely) now only sets you back five levels instead of ten. Best of all, the "Boost" bar has been replaced with "Force" moves. Whereas in the first game, Boost would boost any attack, buff or debuff, Force gives each class a completely unique move (similar to the Coup de Grace in Dragon Quest IX), which include guaranteed stuns, buffs, debuffs or just an incredible attack. These are quite awesome and come into their own for boss fights. To activate these, you need to spend around 50 turns in battle (or around 15 turns later on in the game when you've got the Force weapons), which is worth doing before a boss fight as it can mean the difference between victory and defeat.

 

Etrian Odyssey II may start badly, but it starts to pick up in the 3rd Stratum. From that point on, and until the post-game, you can play it at a normal pace, relying on your natural instincts and skills. In fact, for three Strata, it becomes a very enjoyable game indeed. Once you have got enough TP, you can use the new and/or improved skills more often, such as Climax, Midareba (which no longer needs the "stance" to be set up) and the Hexer's insanely-awesome skill, Revenge. Whereas the first game was about going deeper into a labyrinth, Etrian Odyssey II is about climbing higher up a tree. Because of the high difficulty level, you really get the sense you are exploring relatively uncharted places (there is far less about this on GameFAQs than there is the original, for instance).

 

One of this series' strengths is its stories and storytelling. The stories are clever and subtle, and told to you mainly through the villagers you become friends with. Each floor is also entitled to give you a clue about the scenario. It may be subtle, but there is most definitely a real story there, not just one open to interpretation.

 

From the 3rd Stratum onwards, you can play Etrian Odyssey II quite normally until you complete the main story. You may groan to see some of the worst ideas from the original have returned, such as Quests where you have to spend several days on one floor; areas full of unmarked pits to fall through; and floors full of FOEs that respawn as soon as you leave... but overall, it's not too frustrating. You won't be able to afford all the equipment, so it's a good idea to stick to the elemental weapons, which help you to get the conditional drops without even trying. It's probably quite fair to say the main game is a 6/10, as it is literally 60% good.

 

But then there's the post-game.

 

Oh dear! The 6th Stratum. At this point, the pace drops and the intensity really begins! Obscure ways to get to the next floor; FOEs that are almost impossible to defeat and only appear if you spend too long in battle; Floors full of confusing warps. The post-game is infuriating, but there is always a way to prevail. Most of the optional bosses are back (but not Primevil, thankfully!), plus two more. They are all rock hard and all have conditional drops.

 

Conventional wisdom says you don't need to Retire. Well, I Retired! I bought all the best equipment, I obtained all the boss drops, and I battled my way back up to Level 71 (the level cap is 70 unless you Retire). By this point I had become more familiar with the skills, and spent my extra eight skill points on moves I hoped would make it easier to get to the end. I battled my way up to Floor 30, where the post-game boss resides. Not surprisingly, it is rock hard, but is more predictable than Primevil, and this time you have those fantastic Force skills. Using my Hexer's Revenge skill, which by this point was doing about 2,200 damage (per turn), I defeated him in nine turns (and am sure I could have done it in eight if I'd remembered to Revive my Hexer before the fight!)

 

Etrian Odyssey II is not a great game from the beginning. It becomes a great game. I emerge feeling battered, tired, and knowing its idiosyncrasies off by heart. More than that, though, I am ready for the next installment!

[Grazza]

BUMP

 

So, I was in the process of playing through Etrian Odyssey II and III, when the 3DS's crazy year started and I haven't been back to the 3rd game since. However, in anticipation of Etrian Odyssey IV, I decided to play some more of III. It might be unrealistic to expect to complete it before IV is out (I've done the first three floors), but I really just wanted to familiarise myself with it and how the series has moved on with each instalment.

 

My first impression was that the atmosphere is fantastic. The hub town is just right - a sunny fishing village by day and a trendy nightspot in the evening. Everything about it is the best yet.

 

My second impression was that the gameplay is a lot more complex. There are a great many classes to choose from, most of them unfamiliar. No Landsknecht or Protector here (although there are similar classes), and many of the skills are different. Atlus obviously didn't want people to fall into their old habits from the beginning.

 

A big difference is the special move, fuelled by a bar that fills up as you battle. The 1st game had "Boost", which greatly emphasised any move. The 2nd game had the best - Force - which gave each class a unique (and amazing) move. The 3rd game has Limit, which is in effect a selection of moves that have to be shared and assigned between characters. For example, your Gladiator and Hoplite can build up a powerful attack between them, and when it's ready, either of them can use it.

 

The hardest thing to explain is the difficulty. It's not that it's too easy, just that it seems like you can make your way through with any skills. Whereas the first two Strata of Etrian Odyssey II were too hard even if you had the right skills, with Etrian Odyssey III, I'm getting the sense that there are no "right" skills. Normally in an RPG this is good, but not to have any essential skills doesn't feel very Etrian Odyssey. That's what it seems like at the moment, anyway, but I'm enjoying it and I haven't even got to the first boss yet, so maybe my impressions about this are wrong.

[Grazza]

How far are you through this, @darksnowman? I've started getting into it properly now, and am going for it.

 

I've got through Stratum 2 and unlocked sub-classes, which give you 5 extra skill points just for having one. You have to be a bit more careful than in IV, as Resting sets you back 5 levels in this (as opposed to 2), but on the plus side, you can actually max skills in your sub-class! You can't put skill points into their unique class skill when used as a sub-class, but you can max anything else.

[Grazza]

Final BUMP because... I have completed Etrian Odyssey III!

 

The DS trilogy is finally at an end. I have completed the main story, traversed every floor and defeated the post-game boss of all three games. And what an epic it was!

 

As I said before, Etrian Odyssey III has a great atmosphere from the start. It's generally easier to play than the first two and in many ways sets the form factor for Etrian Odyssey IV. Although there are a bewildering number of classes, the game is designed in a way that lets you play in your style... for the most part.

 

I played most of the game with a Gladiator (for attack), a Hoplite (defence), Zodiac (elements), Wildling (binds + status effects) plus a Monk for healing. Ninjas, Princes and Buccaneers excel as sub-classes, whereas Farmers are highly specialist for gathering. Whichever you use, I highly recommend creating two of each class and leaving the ones you don't want in the Guild, with Combat Study gradually increasing their EXP.

 

Let's get a negative out the of the way - Etrian Odyssey III has sea exploration which, in my opinion, just doesn't fit the game. It's completely rigid, with the player having to plot precise courses over the grid; therefore reaching the destinations can be very frustrating. Happily though, when you do so you are greeted with a boss battle, all of which are up to the Etrian Odyssey standard. You'll certainly want to fight them for the drops.

 

A unique aspect of Etrian Odyssey III is that that are multiple endings for the main story - one good, two bad - and a choice of two different paths, each of which unlocks another class! Personally, I got both bad endings first, then the good one. It's easy enough to loop the game.

 

And so, after seeing the credits roll three times, it was onto the post-game. Deciding I needed a bit more oomph, I introduced an Arbalist to my team. These are absolutely brilliant and great for fighting the dragons. The final stratum is a bit easier-going than the previous two games, and so my confidence was high.

 

Then I met the post-game boss.

 

Oh man, this chap's a nuisance. He's easily up there with Primeval, and makes EOII and IV's look weak. With his high defence and ridiculous heal, even my Arbalists weren't enough.

 

Defeated and demoralised, I wondered if there was a way I could beat him. The great thing about the DS Etrian Odyssey games is that there is usually a strategy that allows you to overcome the immense difficulty of the post-game bosses... it makes them possible. But this time, the path wasn't clear.

 

Then I heard about a strategy called Warrior Might. Basically you have one or two Gladiators with the Shogun sub-class, then two Shoguns with the Buccaneer sub-class. The idea is that the Gladiators use Warrior Might, which chases all normal attacks. The Shogun/Buccaneers have a passive ability called Swashbuckling, which (if you're lucky) follows up Warrior Might, and so you have a long ping-pong of attacks.

 

Forging an ice Dragonbane and a fire Dragonbane, I trained up my Warrior Might team. They were powerful - it seemed to be working. I headed back to the post-game boss, hoping I was sufficiently prepared. Gladiator, Gladiator, Shogun, Shogun and a Hoplite for the elemental walls. Yes, that's how crazy this boss is - there's not even room for a healer!

 

We executed our strategy, but it wasn't enough. Despite a plethora of buffs on our side, the boss kept healing and going back into defensive mode. Was it even possible to beat this chap?

 

Thankfully, he does have one Achilles Heel - on Turn 40, he becomes entirely aggressive rather than defensive.

 

With one last throw of the die, I had my characters defend until Turn 36 or so. Then, I spent three turns preparing my buffs. On Turn 40, he entered attack mode, and I blocked his offensive with a Limit Skill.

 

Now was the time.

 

We unleashed Warrior Might. Luck was on my side. I watched as Swashbuckling activated again and again. The turn ended and he unleashed his own attacks, leaving most of us with 1HP. I wondered how much HP he had left - only a tiny amount, as it happened. Sweating in the July humidity, I had my twin Hoplites (Ninja sub-class) Bodyguard both Gladiators. I set them to attack with Warrior Might and...

 

...The Abyssal God is defeated!

 

It's nine years since I was introduced to Etrian Odyssey. At first I was baffled by its idiosyncrasies, but I have come to see it as the best current RPG series. By completing III, I am finally done with the DS trilogy, and indeed the DS in general. However long Etrian Odssey continues for, I will be there with my Landsknecht, Protector, Alchemist and everyone else in the Sherwood Guild, ready to obtain all the drops and explore the labyrinth.