Kojima: PS3 Is Like A Movie Theater, Xbox Is DVD, Wii Is A TV!

[system_error]

I do need a Kojima game for Wii - more would be even better. Wether you like his games or not he is know for big and epic games. That is what Nintendo is missing right now when it comes to third party developers. A epic game like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, ... from a third party. Sony has Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid, Microsoft has Fable, PGR and what has Nintendo? Small to medium sized games which will never see a sequel so far.

[dabookerman]

I do need a Kojima game for Wii - more would be even better. Wether you like his games or not he is know for big and epic games. That is what Nintendo is missing right now when it comes to third party developers. A epic game like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, ... from a third party. Sony has Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid, Microsoft has Fable, PGR and what has Nintendo? Small to medium sized games which will never see a sequel so far.

 

A few mistakes there, where as MGS and FF are actual 3rd parties, fable is a second party and PGR is a 1st party.

You shoulda mentioned Ninja gaiden, i would love team ninja to make a ninja gaiden game for the wii. Instead they are making a golf game were they not?

[system_error]

Sure, but Fable started as a third party game from Lionhead - it went good and MS bought them. Something Nintendo might never do ... at least I don't know a specific example.

 

PGR is a exclusive game but the developers Bizzarre are neither a first nor second party developer to MS. They are currently developing a game for 360 and PS3 together with Sega.

 

But you got my point - Nintendo seriously lacks dedicated third party developers. An issue which started with the N64 and so far it did not get much better. Where are the third party blockbusters? Like Bioshock? Star Trek Legacy? Oblivion?

 

I admit that the launch lineup looks okay when it comes to variety but quality or better said AAA titles it doesn't look as good as Nintendo could have done. Which means actually doing everything for developers and spending money.

 

There must be a reason why the big games are not mentioned for Wii - and I say it is Nintendos own fault. Yes they did great with the controller, Connect24, free WLAN but their third party support seems to be still "not working".

[Pit-Jr]

There must be a reason why the big games are not mentioned for Wii - and I say it is Nintendos own fault. Yes they did great with the controller, Connect24, free WLAN but their third party support seems to be still "not working".

 

The biggest problem is that 3rd parties know they have to go toe to toe with Nintendo's own 1st party games. It also didnt help that the GC had the smallest user base. Its an odd predicament for Nintendo to try to woo 3rd parties and simulatneously outsell them in software

[system_error]

The biggest problem is that 3rd parties know they have to go toe to toe with Nintendo's own 1st party games. It also didnt help that the GC had the smallest user base. Its an odd predicament for Nintendo to try to woo 3rd parties and simulatneously outsell them in software

 

Well that sounds like only Nintendo has triple A first party titles. I mean come on MS and Sony have both a few good titles aswell and it seems like PGR, Forza and Burnout can work together. I don't see developers there complaining. So that argument is a bit weak.

[Pit-Jr]

Well that sounds like only Nintendo has triple A first party titles. I mean come on MS and Sony have both a few good titles aswell and it seems like PGR, Forza and Burnout can work together. I don't see developers there complaining. So that argument is a bit weak.

 

Point taken but these are two different audiences. A large chunk of Nintendo users turn their nose up to anything that isnt AAA or published by Nintendo themselves. Also Nintendo heavily markets its own software (logically) while 3rd party games go unnoticed.

However if this years E3 is any indication, they want 3rd party games to share the limelight this time around (as demonstrated by having all Wii games in the same video reel and same booth)

I think theyre finally getting a grip on how to promote 3rd party games.

[YenRug]

I thought you lot might like to read the second part of that editorial I pasted from IGN Insider:

 

http://insider.ign.com/articles/716/716496p1.html

 

The Next Wave, #33

Kohler Does Tokyo, Part 2: Social pressure and Japanese game buying, or how the Wii will win the Japanese console market.

by Chris Kohler

 

July 5, 2006 - One week later, and I'm ready to jet out of the Land of the Spending Yen. I sure am glad I got to crash at my friend's place in lieu of getting a hotel, because I blew 'nuff cash just walking around this week. And I didn't even buy a Japanese Xbox 360, even though I was entertaining the idea. In fact, if you look at the stacks of games currently on my buddy's floor it's clear I don't have that much to show for the spending, just a few expensive games and assorted trash. Most of the money went to food and entertainment; I'd nearly forgotten how fast it flies out of your wallet here. Part of me will be glad to be back in the States; San Francisco is expensive but dirt-cheap compared to this place.

 

But for the time being, I'm sitting here in the ManBoo! internet cafe smack in the middle of Shinjuku. Actually, although "internet cafe" is the best phrase we have in English to describe places like ManBoo!, it's a bit of a misnomer. Yes, I'm using the Web. But I could just as easily be reading one of the many manga on the shelves (what looks to be the country's entire output is piled in giant stacks all around the booths), reading any one of the latest magazines, watching a DVD from the shelf of brand new movies, or getting another soft drink from the vending machines. For $1.75 an hour, it's all yours to enjoy in a private booth with a sliding door. If you want to sleep here overnight, the chair reclines right back. There's a safe for your valuables. These places grew out of a Japanese invention called the manga kissaten, or "comic coffee shop", where customers could read manga as they relaxed and drank. Even now, ManBoo! and the like are called manga-kisa.

 

As you might imagine, ManBoo! is pretty popular. It's a Sunday afternoon, and there's a long wait for a booth. Couples have to wait even longer to get one of the deluxe booths with a couch and larger TV. They're out there now, milling about the manga shelves. What's funny is that nobody's leaving, even though the wait is so long for a spot and there are plenty of other manga-kisa in the immediate vicinity. It could be because this one is so classy, but something else comes to mind. The other day, I was talking with my friend Delyana, a Bulgarian expat who's lived here for a few years. "The Japanese are attracted to lines," she said. "Americans see a long line outside of a restaurant, and they'll go somewhere else. But Japanese people see the line and they want to stand in it. They'll stand there for a half hour in their high heels just because everybody else is."

 

I thought back to a couple of signs I'd seen this past week. In two instances -- once next to a GameCube, and once next to a chocolate-dipped bun -- I saw signs that read, ima, uretemasu! This translates to "These are really selling right now!". I'm a bit reluctant to take the game shop's word for it that the GameCube is really selling, even though it did move more units than Xbox 360 this week. But the message is clear: consumers are being told very specifically, hey, everybody else is buying this, and so should you. The signs don't read "Recommended" or "Special This Week". They read "We're selling a lot of these."

 

Ima, uretemasu is typical in a country in which social conformity is prized. Take a course on Japanese culture, and from day one you'll learn about how rigid the social structure is. Rules governing what to do and when to do it. How to address people. How to bathe. How to live. This is not to say that the Japanese don't know how to have fun, or that they can't be individualistic. The current ruined state of my liver is testament to the ability of Japanese people to totally let loose. But even frivolity has its rules here. Knowing all this, it's no surprise that for all intents and purposes, the most prized consumer product here is the one that everyone else is buying, too.

 

During one of my visits with some game developers this week, I was explaining the difference between the American and Japanese markets. I pointed out that in Japan, games sell about eighty percent of the copies they're ever going to sell, ever, in the first two weeks. Sales then plummet dramatically. But in the US, a game might not have a really huge opening week, but sales go along steadily thereafter for quite a while. I pointed out that one of the best-selling game titles in terms of unit sales for the month of May was God of War, a game that shipped over a year ago. They were surprised to hear this, immediately asking, "But don't you guys want to play the game as soon as it comes out?" I said that while this was the case with core gamers, most people didn't feel that way, many of them buying games largely based on price.

 

"But, I really want to play the game when everybody else is playing it," they chimed in, and I realized that yet again this was another example of social pressure. By and large, we don't feel the same way. We are a nation that prides ourselves on our individuality, each person having their own style, their own rules for life. We will buy games when we're damn good and ready to play them, not when other people say we should have them. Then again, another reason for this discrepancy, said another friend of mine later in the week, is because video games don't really have release dates in the US. In Japan, every game store has every game on the exact same date, without exception. This is largely a result of the small size of the country; it's easy to get that kind of distribution. But in the US, it just takes far longer to get the games rolling out to stores across the whole country, and specific release days are only held to for major games like Madden or Halo 2.

 

With that sort of discrepancy, it's easy to see how American gamers might not pay so much attention to release dates and just buy when they feel like it, assigning priority to some games and putting others on the back burner until the price drops or they get bored. But it's not just when people buy things, it's what they buy, too. Although we usually do have a clear first-place game console in the US, it's generally a closer race, and ties are even possible. The PSP and DS are selling in just about equal quantities in the States, much like the Super NES and Sega Genesis did in the early nineties. Many more PS2 consoles were sold this time around than Xbox, but it is perfectly socially acceptable to have Microsoft's console. You aren't an outsider.

 

There is no such thing as a tie in the Japanese games industry. Well, the GameCube and Xbox 360 are roughly tied for getting their asses beat. But the Japanese always choose a clear winner in the console wars. Once it becomes apparent which console is ima, uretemasu, everyone flocks to it -- developers and publishers alike. The PS2 and the DS are light years beyond the competition. There is no more competition. Many developers liked the GameCube from the first, but software development efforts quickly and dramatically shifted away from the console as soon as it became obvious that PS2 would sell more. Conversely, PSP can limp along on the strength of Sony's industry clout, but it's not selling. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him play LocoRoco.

 

I think the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 will be roughly tied in the US; one will come out on top but it won't make that much difference. In Japan, where the battle is between PS3 and Wii, there has to be a clear winner. One has got to sell more than the other, and in a big way. One has got to be the ima, uretemasu console. And I don't see how it couldn't be Wii. I haven't yet talked to a person in Japan who has told me otherwise. The PS3 is a big, powerful, expensive, impressive piece of hardware, and it's coming right at a time when the Japanese market is absolutely eating up inexpensive, unique content played on stylish, miniature hardware.

 

Much like they are doing with the PSP and its Johnny-come-lately assortment of brain-training games, Sony will undoubtedly try to give PS3 some of that appeal, but it won't work very well. It's just too intently focused on the current gamer demographic, to the detriment of the casual consumer. Meanwhile, the Wii is tiny, quiet, easy to use, and wireless. The Wii is designed with the intricacies of the Japanese market in mind, while the PS3 is designed with Sony's business in mind. Blu-Ray might end up being the preferred high-end storage format -- in about five years. For now, it is a millstone around the PS3's neck, one that it can never remove. The $600 price tag is a bargain compared to what the Japanese will end up paying on launch day for the "open price" high-end configuration. It won't be able to reach Wii's price point in any reasonable length of time.

 

I'm not saying that Sony is going away anytime soon, mind. The PlayStation brand is still massive. It's just as much a part of the video game sphere of influence as ever. And there are plenty of Japanese game fans who will buy it because it is so powerful, and because it's the only Japanese console on which games with incredible bleeding-edge graphics like Final Fantasy XIII and Metal Gear Solid 4 will be available. There's still a whole lot of gamers out there for whom Wii will not be sufficient, and since Xbox 360 is out of the race, PS3 will take that crowd. Certainly it has a very strong chance of outselling Wii and maybe even 360 in the US. I think that Nintendo's wildest hopes in the US would be to come within range of making things a three-way tie in the US market, and that's if the Wii concept really takes hold.

 

But being in Japan and seeing things first-hand has made it very clear to me that, on their home turf, Nintendo is entering the console wars in a position of power. They're the hot ticket in the Japanese games industry right now. The DS isn't just doing well for a game system; it's the single hottest consumer device in the country right now. All week long I have heard stories of people lining up outside of stores to buy DS Lite -- not even knowing if the stores will have them in stock. They're just there on the off chance. Approximately 150,000 of them get lucky every week, but it's still not nearly enough to satisfy demand. All Nintendo has to do is use the same kinds of pervasive advertising campaigns they're already running to convince their new legion of fans that Wii is like a DS for your home, and they're golden. Stores won't need signs that read ima, uretemasu!; it will be made clear simply by the big empty spaces on the hardware shelves.

[DCK]

Very interesting read. From a cultural perspective, the Wii is favourite for sure and it makes sense.

 

Thanks for posting it YenRug.

[YenRug]

This was where I was saying the first part backed up Hideo Kojima's position on supporting the PS3, at present. He believes, at present, that with the PS2's position of dominance in Japan he has to voice his support for the PS3, it's not until there is a cultural shift (which sounds likely) to supporting the Wii wholeheartedly that he will change his stance.

[dabookerman]

This was where I was saying the first part backed up Hideo Kojima's position on supporting the PS3, at present. He believes, at present, that with the PS2's position of dominance in Japan he has to voice his support for the PS3, it's not until there is a cultural shift (which sounds likely) to supporting the Wii wholeheartedly that he will change his stance.

 

Makes the most sense from his point of view, Also the same reason why final fantasy remains exclusive to the PS3 (the main ones) And tekken. I mean its the same reason why soul calibur 3 was exclusive to the PS2, because it sold the most.

[McMad]

I mean its the same reason why soul calibur 3 was exclusive to the PS2, because it sold the most.

 

Actually Soul Calibur 2 sold the most on the Gamecube.

 

It was a big shock to see the sequel on PS2.

 

EDIT: Okay i understand you now booker.

[dabookerman]

Actually Soul Calibur 2 sold the most on the Gamecube.

 

It was a big shock to see the sequel on PS2.

 

I was referring to the fact the PS2 sold the most, and not the game, just to clear that up.

[Hellfire]

I was referring to the fact the PS2 sold the most, and not the game, just to clear that up.

It's still poor reasoning, proof is that SC2 sold better on GC and SC3 sold very poorly.

[dabookerman]

It's still poor reasoning, proof is that SC2 sold better on GC and SC3 sold very poorly.

 

yes indeed, but Everyone and their wife knows why it sold the most on GC.

[Hellfire]

yes indeed, but Everyone and their wife knows why it sold the most on GC.

And gay people

[ShadowV7]

And gay people

That was a good one

[STU-bot]

yes indeed, but Everyone and their wife knows why it sold the most on GC.

 

Without Link the game wouldn't have shifted as many units as it did. Although it sold more on GC it wasn't enough to convince Namco to make the next game a Nintendo exclusive. The PS2 version of Soul Calibur 2 did very well too, many people forget this.

[dabookerman]

Rolls on the floor.