tapedeck
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Posts posted by tapedeck
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Either way you view MS or Sony's strategies they are foolish. It's like chewing your own arm off just so you can get fatter. It isn't good business sense. Sony and MS can fight the big fight and I'm sure we will see MS win due to their sheer nerve and cashflow. Sony are obviously a giant too but I don't think even they can match MS's financial muscle. It's all coy at the moment as MS and Sony push each other to see what happens. But I don't think Nintendo will ever give up the fight. They have done the right thing by finding their niche. Let the games do the talking and the winner will come.
Jordan: As our resident PC pro (I've noticed
) what's your thoughts on the GeForce 8800 series? Is it worth it? At around £400 does it justify itself by the games available / coming? Or from the pricey PS3 to the £179 Wii, what do you think is going to offer a better gaming experience? The consoles or a rather pricey graphics card.. -
I see the lifespan of this generation of consoles being longer because:
Producers and devs need longer to recoup money.
Developers try to chase and build consumer bases through their online communities.
Technology is at a comfortable level for developers to realise ideas.
Everyone launched in (roughly) the same window.
All consumers covered, old and new gamers. (Currently something for everyone)
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I'm not so sure Jammy. Can a franchise so popular just exist on one platform and won't someone start developing a WoW killer? Is it unbeatable?
I'm going to sleep on this one and post a reply if and when I answer these questions. Interesting idea.
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I played/completed Godfather and I still love it now. It feels as fresh as a daisy with the motion controls. I can't wait for the sequel. If the Wii can get it's own sandbox game with motion controls akin to The Godfather it would pi$$ on GTA IV's parade. The game is incredibly immersive and makes me actually harbour genuinely violent feelings towards the other (in-game!) families due to the intrinsic emotions felt when physically bashing heads with a baseball bat, throttling someone or (via IR) picking a shot out across a crowded street. Fabulous game and one I restart requently if only to extort shop owners all over again. It's physically fun in the same vein as Wii Sports is.
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I completely agree Mike. The RTS genre has never really been taken seriously on the console front. I remember the Command & Conquer ports on the SNES and MD and they were (as I vaguely remember) well received. Westwood studios were fantastic back then.
I feel that the RTS genre is perfectly suited to the DS and Wii's control systems. There is so much potential with IR and touch screen functionality and the tactile feeling it would bring is interesting. (Slight Note: Wouldn't Viva Piniata have been excellent on Wii!)
The reason for no RTS on Wii is that I think the developers of these titles feel the Nintendo systems aren't a good fit for them. Like you mentioned, the 360 got C&C3 - and I was stumped as to why the Wii didn't. Don't EA handle the franchise now? Haven't EA products been selling well on the Wii? Is the game too graphically intense for the Wii? There are lots of reasons this game could and should have been out for the Wii and only one reason I can think of as to why it never...Lack of faith in sales on a Nintendo console. This irks me somewhat as business is about taking risks sometimes. If EA released C&C3 on the Wii now (port away, just add IR) the Wii RTS market would be owned by them. Simple. I'm dissapoined that game never made it to Wii. The closest we will get to RTS is, commendably, Pikmin.
I would hope that the MMO genre on consoles would go down the root of WoW and if Nintendo "spun" the genre then something with an Earthbound or Animal Crossing vibe would suit their style. Hunting worldwide for fish etc..Yet returning home at the end of the day. I think with this being the generation that truly brings system updates, downloadable content etc...We could finally see MMORPG's developed specifically for consoles. Didn't SEGA kind of pioneer this with PSO? Hmmmm. I'll probably respect that franchise a little more now!
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Looking around the forums here (and elsewhere) it seems that many Wii owners are twisting about their consoles. In relation to many of us on here who know this is farcial (like Hero, Fierce, Jammy,Gaggle) I feel we should all try the following to feel better: peace:
Make a mental or physical list of existing and non-existing games you want on the Wii..
Now put a mark next to them as OLD or NEW. New cannot be a sequel. New has to be something not made before.
Now when you do this you'll have lots of OLD/typical games on the Wii with NEW/exciting games that you have never played before (but you came up with).
With these NEW games comes the real factor of the Wii.
You see that list you've made? Evident that we all want a mixture of OLD and NEW isn't it? But it took you seconds to think of or write those old games down. But it probably took you a while to think of NEW games. This is exactly what developers are facing right now. The OLD games may come but the NEW games will take longer. And surely the NEW games in your mind are FAR more exciting!! Oh and if your list was mostly populated by old titles buy a 360! if not..You're in the right place...It's just "good things come to those who wait"!
Put your lists up people...Could be the start of something beautiful
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Interesting caris, in my other thread about gamers deciding when the next gen comes I touch on your mentioned subject heavily. Have a read there. I understand the "forcing hands" debate...But maybe Sony and MS cannot afford to keep losing money.
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I found the swing mechanics were ok yet the power variation was way off. Chipping at only half power seemed horrendously difficult at times. And the games ability to over-shoot the green when you were only mere yards away was unfathomable.
I'm a lover of the Tiger Woods games yet I agree that they are far too easy; (which you probably need to see everything the game offers!) yet I just wasn't enamoured by the motion controls. For £40 I expected something (as you stated) with good presentation, control choices and progressive scan. Instead I went back to the "free" Wii sports Golf and started praying EA got it right the next time they took Woodsy into their studios for some more mo cap hijinks.
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I thought the PC would crop up ...
It's an age-old argument that PC's should or shouldn't be classified in the same vein as consoles. And it's extremely difficult to include the PC in technology debates. If only because PC specs are moving so fast that a comment is already redundant as soon as it is posted!
As buzz words like USB,CD,DVD playback and hard drives become common factors within home consoles - the PC crowd are going to see a console as nothing more than a streamlined (weaker) version of the fully customisable PC. Don't get me wrong...I've followed PC gaming for a long time and have many fond memories of games such as Wolfenstein, Settlers, Quake, Sim City right up to Half Life 2. For me that's where I got off the train of PC gaming. Direct X10, incompatability and XP to Vista issues were the final straw. I don't have the patience anymore. I just want to play. And I'm one of the "hardcore".
Plus, I just can't keep up financially.
The PC will always exist as it has it's own niche. (And the killer apps that are the internet, office suites etc help!) So you cannot really compare the PC to consoles.
Interesting idea about the graphics cards being cheaper and more powerful in 2-3 years
BUT...
Imagine you're developing a fantastic 1st person shooter with graphics akin to Crysis. You could reach 25% (maybe lower?) of PC owners (those who have Direct X10 and sufficient system capabilities to run the game in a stable manner). NOW...You can put the game on the Wii, XBOX360 and PS3 and reach 100% of those console owners. (With system stability and potentially equal graphics). This is where the PC will never be seen (in the eyes of developers) as equal... There is just too much money to be made on the consoles. This is why we see ports, original IP's and movie-to-game tat on consoles.
If you want further proof of how the PC hasn't really affected the console arena in the past - Look at how long it took DOOM to appear on 16bit consoles. It hardly set the console world on fire like Sonic or Mario did.(I've probably opened a whole can of worms now!)
But hey, maybe this will all change with the VISTA, XBOX360 crossover getting underway. Maybe the PC gaming scene will be revolutionised...Probably another debate entirely...
For nintendo this is not a problem because they offer a different product. But PS3 and 360? i think they wont want to lose market to people increasingly upgrading their pc's.
I don't think this will affect their market too much. The PS2 probably shows that. (It's ancient in respect to commonplace PC graphics cards)
I respect your viewpoint and it's excellent to have such a varied mixture of gamers here. Your an avid PC gamer (...apparent from your sig: peace: ) and so you probably understand how fast PC technology moves forward - Specifically when it comes to graphics cards? Yet I think the longer Microsoft have to get the XBOX360 and vista gaming platforms together..the more the PC gaming scene will stall. If only so the PC game scene can hitch a ride on the XBOX360's popularity. Then MS make money from both angles. PC and XBOX360. it also enables the spread of IP's. Interesting no?
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If Nintendo are to fully appeal to the casual market then the Wii needs to have a longer lifespan. Putting Wii in the typical 4-7yr console lifespan for a want of better processors etc isn't something the casual gamer will like. (Alienation could creep in again). The vast majority of casual gamers will probably want to harbour the console they have spent money on for years. It's mainly core gamers who want the upgrade....
Or do we?
Who has given the industry this need for 'updates'? Is it the developers themselves wanting to create the bigger and the better and forcing this? Or is it the core gamers themselves who go out and buy whatever new tech that comes out (thus proving those developers right)?
I'll use last gen consoles as examples:
The XBOX was a victory in the eye of the consumer. There were many games released and Microsoft's online focus was well received. And the image of the console struck a chord with many people. There were also a mass of PS2 ports put onto the XBOX and Microsoft themselves cleverly forced hands on development through the PC arena (IE Bungie development for the PC was instead shifted onto XBOX). But when we see the losses Microsoft made, it is easy to understand why they released the XBOX 360 so soon. This sudden shift harmed the XBOX image and the sudden drop of software for the original XBOX didn't help. It was almost like Microsoft forced XBOX gamers to upgrade. Not even an XBOX redesign..Nothing.
It is all business afterall and my point about the XBOX is that, if it was making a profit we probably wouldn't have seen the 360 for another year or maybe longer. So if MS (Microsoft) were losing money they spent more cash making a console that would recoup money for them. Therefore they forced their own hand into next-gen as they used the XBOX merely as a means to disrupt the industry to get their name involved. Now we will see a different MS as they have to bust their back to make money. (Surely Bill Gates won't stand for more losses from the XBOX division).
MICROSOFT'S DECISION TO GO NEXT GEN: MONEY.
MICROSOFTS REASON TO CONSUMERS: TO OWN THE MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE
Sony were then forced by Microsoft's decision to release the XBOX 360 so sudden. The PS2 was selling well and there were many games to come - But it was old tech. Because MS released the 360 so soon, Sony had to get something onto the market. The PSP wasn't pushing the numbers they hoped it would and I think it shows that the PS3 product was released too early - By two years perhaps.
SONY'S DECISION TO GO NEXT GEN: PUSHED BY COMPETITOR
SONY'S REASON TO CONSUMERS: TO OWN THE MOST POWERFUL CONSOLE
The Gamecube was dead in the water in many regions due to the domination of the PS2 format, poor ports and a limited online interface. Nintendo had other incomes though in their portable arena. They could take their time yet needed to stay in the public eye in the console arena. By releasing the Wii when they did they not only met Sony out of the door but positioned themselves in the field of next-gen too.
I sometimes don't think Nintendo ever really wanted to go next gen. I think the wii-mote could have been an add-on for the Gamecube yet the install base and perception of the cube (and the strength of the Wii idea) was enough for Nintendo to develop a new console (righting wrongs)!
NINTENDO'S DECISION TO GO NEXT GEN: STARTING AGAIN TO RIGHT GAMECUBE WRONG DOINGS
NINTENDO'S REASON TO CONSUMERS: TO SEE A NEW FORM OF GAMING
But I now think we are in charge for the time being. This generation is a lot more even than the last with more room for all three companies to co-exist comfortably. When looking at all three reasons I have stated, it is apparent there are probably more reasons within these. The fact is that the technology is all on a level pegging. Nintendo obviously shirk away from this and therefore if they develop their games to this idea then technically, to them the graphics won't matter. The fun will. The PS3 and XBOX360 are here to stay for a long time. Sony need to recoup money as do Microsoft. Nintendo are making lots of money right now and we could even see them have the earliest of the nex gen consoles with equal/better stats to those of the PS3. (I feel Nintendo currently hold the cards of the industrys movement as such). If they forced the industry to move forwards with new tech and innovation, we could see the collapse of Microsoft and Sony's games divisions. Bottom line: Money is the reason for the change in the industry..It's political yes (trying to appeal to new people, existing gamers) But look into the past..The Megadrive started losing sales to the SNES, cue 32X and MegaCD. The Saturn started losing money to the PS1, cue Dreamcast development. (And doesn't the dreamcast's sudden release echo the 360 somewhat?)
I wonder if anyone else has ever thought of this and I'd love to hear your comments. Thanks. Tapedeck.
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Also on the note of developement costs, they will fall for the X360 / PS3 but I don't honestly think they're ever going to be comparable to the Wii. Wii's could easily fall to a tiny figure in the future.Good point Jammy. I think this could be another of Nintendo's trump cards. As the cost to develop drops further down, more indie developers will jump on board. When Nintendo stuck to cartridges we saw price as an ongoing issue. The proprietry Gamecube format also wasn't cheap compared to DVD's neither. Now Nintendo have a good format for the Wii (and the DS in comparison to the PSP) and therefore constantly falling costs, this could; in theory again contribute to the longevity of the console.
If casual consumers see software appearing on the shelf at a steady rate then the image of that console will always appear fresh to them no matter what the tech level inside the console is.
I'm sure the development costs for the Wii will also fall way faster than PS3 and XBOX360 costs. Result!
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As consumers / gamers we get attached to the systems we buy and we try to validate those choices (sometimes ferociously!) What we also want is our system to have a natural curve which peaks with incredible software. I'm sure we all know the term 2nd/3rd generation software..Gobbledegook really....The Wii 'should' last a long time due to it's VC features/downloadable channels/updatable firmware and controller innovation (For how long is another debate). One area lacking is obviously horsepower and in three or four years developers will be itching to get onto the "then" lower development costs of the PS3/XBOX30. Who knows how it will pan out but I think the Wii could potentially be the longeest lasting console or the shortest. Difficult one to call. The PS2 (7 years and counting!!) got lucky with it's lifespan. The DVD functionality came at the perfect time for consumers and the sheer market share it had probably won't happen again. This generation is oo hard to call.The PS3 is a long haul console -- It will therefore be interesting to see if Sony keep the PS2 going (to recoup losses) and what Microsoft do in 3-4 years could be interesting too. Maybe Add-Ons are the future of the industry now that USB/RAM tech isn't as costly. The 32X or 64DD may have been ahead of their time afterall!
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EA need to spend more time refining the swinging action on this one. I was thoroughly dissapointed by '07's erratic, oft-differing mechanics. If they can nail the controls then they can start looking at online features. Personally I feel that golf games are much more rewarding when played alone or with someone else in the room with you. Unless you could scribble on the screen mid game to chat/put other players off. Anyhoo, I'm getting ahead of myself! As I said, if the controls are spot on it's a must buy. I was stung badly by '07 but I still think golfing on the Wii is too good to resist. NBA could have some interesting motion controls added, bouncing would tire you senseless though. Maybe shooting as reaching up would be good. Maaaan, there are just so many ways to play sports games on Wii!
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If past PS2 games appeared on the Wii it would surely be associated with living in the PS2's shadow. If it's Okami or something similar of quality that didn't really sell then I see the point. I think Capcom are being neive on the Okami front. The Wii should stand on it's own feet. When the Wii gets the same games as PS2 they will be ten pound more expensive and consumers will see this and wonder why the justification...A hard one to call for sure. Maybe certain posters wanting more (better?) PS2 ports is just the current mood and when Brawl, Prime, Galaxy, Heroes etc all launch; I don't think we will hear much on this front.
However, Sony will probably relaunch with a PStwo (ala PSone) eventually, maintaining developers interest...Also known as flogging a dead horse. So these Wii-makes may not subside at all.
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I like this thread...My brain is whirring with thoughts now
Hero, I totally agree with your statement about developers not being ready for the Wii. Current shelf space shows and we also initially saw this with the DS. - Now look at the shelf space the DS occupies. I guess some companies will never learn and I guess it just shows the naivety of the industry in regards to writing off Nintendo products.
Many developers have said nothing but Nintendo games sell on Nintendo consoles. I personally remember Rare selling quite a few units of software on the N64. And I'm sure companies didn't do too bad on the NES or the SNES. How businesses changed when a big-name company like Sony decided to occupy the market. I wonder how long it will be until we hear developers stating innovative, artistic and "out of the box" efforts don't sell on non-Nintendo consoles!
This is why I find myself suddenly respecting EA....They aren't shirking away from Nintendo with "me too" updates. They are trying something new. Would Boogie exist without the Wii? I doubt it. Will EA's franchises be stale in ten years? Probably yes. BUT: It's easier to keep a product that's in the public eye selling well (IE FIFA and Football and Madden). That's why Nintendo have done so well to keep Mario popular. So EA's decision to innovate Madden/FIFA on Wii is brilliant for Wii owners. If EA make money other companies (with franchises) will follow. That's why the Wii is going to keep on getting better. I actually think by Nintendo NOT releasing an original software channel for their NEW products or a download station or lots of software, means more opportunity for other developers. Keep the carrot dangling to users and all...Then when developers are on board WHAM! Add Mii popularity contests, download channels, Brain training channels etc...Then, and only then will Nintendo have truly met potential on the Wii. The DS is already doing its part. Slowly more things were carefully introduced. (Wifi on Mario Kart) Slowly new franchises were added (Brain training). And the same could be said for the console arena..But on a far grander scale. We've seen Mario/Pokemon pioneer WIFI on Wii afterall.
Clever companies don't put all of their eggs into one basket. Nintendo need to raise the bar slowly - not suddenly raise it so high that they can't better their last efforts.
Have faith. Nintendo are on the rise. Iwata hasn't really done much wrong and I don't think he lets his heart rule his head like Yamauchi did.
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I personally love the Wii so much already for its power to bring those who aren't gamers into 'play'. It's like a catch 22 situation though. We want to show off our hobby but we also want it to be exclusively ours. Secretively immersing ourselves in an epic quest or a tight league for hours upon hours. I respect the idea that the Wii has brought consoles into the living room space as an accessible piece of electronics entertainment. And as much as I love this idea I also feel we are currently being shafted when it comes to traditional design. I have NO DOUBT this will be a void argument by next year though. But as a gamer for many years I would like to have seen more traditional games available on the Wii by now. Pro Evo is apparently taxing the developers brain due to the controller. EA are going all out for motion on franchises that already have a proven track record. (Dangerous surely as we all don't want the change.) Yet there are two sides to this. Innovation or stagnation..I'm for both. I just dont want to flail around all of the time.
The need to develop for the Wii should cater to all of the strengths of the console. Not just the controller. I harbour for a more traditional gaming experience. Personalised. And at the moment there haven't been many traditional gaming experiences to be had on the Wii. And I think this is the crux of many a peoples frustrations (as gamers). Sheer expectancy of more traditional games and the lack of these. (Reversing what the cube had at launch.)
Give developers time and I'm sure the Wii will cater for all crowds one day....I just hope the controller isn't the be all and end all. The cube ports and classic controller are there for a reason!
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I dont remember any tracks from Sonic Rush on the DS, yet I remember the Megadrive tunes in a heartbeat. Maybe that's with being younger and becoming hypnotised with games seems simpler. Maybe it's the fact that the DS doesn't lend itself to immersion in the same way as a home console can...Who knows. All I know is that the Megadrive tunes are still unbeatable today and I doubt we will ever see Sega as good as they were in the 90's. Which is a terrible thing. I'm sure we can all agree on that.
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Chhang...In relation to your question, it probably has deeper meaning than you possibly anticipated..
Crysis is seen as the next big thing on the PC. Graphically intense for sure -yet those graphics are translated ingame via destroyable jungle vegetation and advanced terrain and lighting effects ! Crysis also includes so much physics and AI development that I lost track a long time ago...It all sounded a bit "Emotion Chip" to me. There's no arguing that it looks good though.
So you're asking if the PS3 or XBOX360 can run them? Probably yes. I see Crysis as another Farcry...in a few years why not? I'm sure it will only run on Direct X10 enabled systems for now...And so on and so on.
Read the thread point though Chhang...Maybe Crysis is just another FPS? How long will you play it after the destroyable vegatation becomes expected? After developers move on to the next big PC FPS. I am slightly bitter about the FPS genre if only because fresh ideas are often lacking....I personally liked the different styling of XIII, the exploration of Prime and the RPG elements in Deus Ex. The Doom run-and-gun template sometimes still seems to be the pinnacle of FPS ideas. I'd like to see the FPS go in more taxing directions. Metroid Prime is a good example. Working around alienation and immersion via reflecting yourself in the real world in the visor/surroundings. Anyhoo, I'll stop now. I've gone off track and I sense a flame war from people who know the FPS genre better than me!
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Play the Wii version whilst looking in the mirror and pretend the wiimote is infac a gamecube controller and your there!
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Isn't the idea of a ship being attacked at the beginning of the game seriously ripped from HALO? It is a good game but Half Life has bettered it surely...oodles of times. I even think Goldeneye / Perfect Dark had console controls nailed. HALO does control well but I don't think its the best. If anything it is remembered for it's set pieces. It does seem that the Metroid franchise gets compared to HALO quite a lot. Shame really as Metroid reminds me of ALIEN at times!
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Wasn't the best thing about Halo the music and CO-OP?
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The best thing about Wind Waker is the way you can just watch the world. And because of the visual style you are almost used to it. It's like watching a cartoon afterall. When your in a realistic game you don't tend to take things in as much. How good was lighting a torch and seeing the light on the walls in cartoon form? And how AMAZING was the artistic talent on some of the characters. The HUGE red dragon bested any dragon Disney have drawn in years! Then look at dragons, torches in TP and OOT....The effect isn't there. WW is sublime as it consists of style over substance. TP is still a fantastically put together piece of entertainment. It's jigsaw like design is all the more imperssive due to the scope of the game. yet WW is immersive. It's in the same vein as Jet Set Radio and Parrappa The Rapper and Okami and Animal Crossing. You can watch the game and take part visually. I can't wait for Zelda DS. It' where the style will be wholy and truly more appreciated.
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We all know most developers want the more, more, more approach. Iwata said that Nintendo feel like Chefs cooking meals and the gamers are never full. Never really tasting the ingredients neither? Just gorging? Sometimes I really think that's the case. However, this could also be said for everything. Money, Love, Music. Our fast food world never slows. Consequently, I think what Iwata said holds reference to the developers in the industry too. Think back to what companies like Squaresoft and Rare got out of the Super Nintendo in the 1990's. If the 16bit era had moved to the 32bit era too fast we wouldn't have seen those games on those platforms. And it's the same today. That's why I think the industry needs the Wii. It needs to have something that developers understand. Something against the norm. This enables development to be pushed in other directions. History proves that when a systems graphical 'oomph' runs out, you tend to get something different. Animal Crossing was an N64 game, Mario 64 was originally meant to be pushed onto the Super FX chip. I agree we wouldn't have had the freedom of the DS Animal Crossing NOR the freedom the N64 afforded in comparison to the Super FX chip. (And an analogue control input)
I also understand the need for the industry to move forward. Somethings point to the future (Starwing 2, Mario 64 becoming so much more) But the point I'm trying to make is that those games would have been fun regardless where they appeared. And so too they would have been well thought out and technically astounding on their respective consoles. Yet when a new tech comes along the developers start wanting that (to fully realise their games) and then the new generation comes along and the previous platform hasn't been fully realised. Just like the Gamecube which had so much more to offer - I feel Rogue Squadron showed us all the capabilities of the system. The fact is, developers want more POWER, POWER, POWER. Yet power can be whatever we want it to be. Whether it's in the power of emotion evoked toward the gamer or development put into an epic score etc..
I'm glad there is a wii...If only because it will force developers to look at other ways of entertaining gamers rather than through looks alone. There will always be change, that's the nature of the electronics industry. But a consoles lifespan should be so much longer. Is it any wonder we (historically) get the best games and graphics at the end of a consoles lifetime? No. I just wish the end wasn't the end at all but would last longer. I really wanted a Donkey Kong Country 4 for the SNES and a PROPER Dinosaur Planet for the N64 and Super Paper Mario for the Cube. The promise of something better took them away.
One final point of interest!:
If developers are always wanting more power...why does it go on a wrinkle on a guys face or a rock texture. A rock is a rock no? if you are a truly skilled artist you can immerse the viewer in anything. Not just because it looks real.
Look how zany Rhoald Dahl's stories are, or Tolkeins..Yet totally immersive through one thing: Artistic craft.
I wish the industry would have more examples of unique software, yet we are only at the beginning. The ones experiencing the beginning and the future of the industry all at once...It's in our hands to shape the future of our hobby.
What do YOU think?
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I'll have to hunt them down ma man, you seem to know your stuff!
I love Escape from the city...The clever use of lyrics in relation to level IE:
"Rolling around at the speed of sound, got nowhere to go, gotta follow my rainbow"...It's clever. I like the aspect of songs to levels..Maybe if some puzzles were only solveable via listening to the tracks..Maybe that would be good (Note to self...Develop this idea!).
Overall, I just wish Sega would make Sonic almost, innocent again.
Understand what you want from Wii..
in Nintendo Gaming
Posted
Wow! This thread has turned into something far deeper than I ever could have anticipated. Thanks everyone!
Reading the imput was interesting. I suggest you all take a glance at everyone's points! Initially you can see the love for Nintendo based franchises. This is obviously going to happen due to the nature of the forums yet I was suprised at how loyal we all still are to Nintendo franchises. It kind of backs up what some developers say - Nintendo consoles main top sellers are Nintendo only games. But I think this speaks volumes about the quality of the software. It's not a bad thing if the games are good. And they usually are. I particularly liked Fierce's note about the suprise/unpredictability element Nintendo bring. (Which Nintendo themselves always wax lyrical about) The thread then changes to the varying games the Wii is going to bring. Which is when the thread changes. The contrast in language begins to center around excitement and mystery. I also completely agree about the RPG discussion. Remember though, the Wii needs that mixture of OLD and NEW. The old is just as important as the new. Without the elements in old games, developers can never successfully produce NEW experiences. Look at Brain training, old elements like Soduko add longevity to the product. And OLD elements such as the TV remote inspired the Wiimote design. Keep posting people. It's always a pleasure to read what people want from their existance as a console owner. We've all bought into the future of gaming afterall.