obscure

Sorry, but it just sounds odd to me. Nintendo took away a possible choice from you, but you as a person, are still able to act. I guess I've just never heard someone use it before, even though it sort of means the same thing. I think of agency more as a word describing a conscious decision making being, and for sure, Nintendo hopefully does not have the power to take that away from you; however a choice, they sure do. If I'm misunderstanding, I'm sorry.

Yes, I guess we have, hehe. You misunderstood. I was on about agency. I've never before heard anyone else say, that agency means having an ability to sound words.

There's a few different discussions going on here, which is why I guess there's been sometimes confusion. There's the topic of this game having voice chat. The topic of OS level voice chat. The topic of what are the modern social norms, pertaining to online gaming communication. The topic of if a game wasn't intended to have, or doesn't have a certain feature by design; then because you want that feature, doesn't mean the game is universally crap (this was mainly what I was discussing). ..And more (What's that? You thought I was going to list every single side-topic like a loon, hehe.) It's absolutely normal, of course, for a discussion to lead in many directions; however, just pointing this out might help untangle some of the mess. I feel, and in my case know, there's been a few misunderstandings. What about someone suffering from muteness, but you're just talking about online video gaming, right? However, in that case we can then loop back to, what about someone suffering from muteness? :P You can tell agency, by the way a player moves and controls their character. Supposing AI is sufficiently advanced enough though, then you wouldn't be able to tell whether or not you were playing against a human (I guess this is what you mean?). Yet if AI advances even more, then perhaps even with voice chat, there will be no distinction between what has agency and what does not. This is a pet peeve of mine. I find nothing more annoying, than people moaning and complaining about something, but not taking action and doing something about it. If you're not going to do anything about it, and I presume Nintendo isn't reading this thread, then people going around and around in some sort of a whinge-fest, is not going to help anyone. In fact, if anything, someone coming here to read about the Wii U, before an intended purchase; will quite probably be put off from buying one.

It's quite ridiculous, that you're arguing the meaning of Ramar's post, and even more so that I have even been replying to you about it. Even if you're his brother, it would still obviously be absurd. But, er, that sounds like a perfectly normal reply to make, if it was just humour, right? It really sounds like it was a joke I didn't get. Then again, how can I take you serious, when you've just used the amount of thanks a post gets, to somehow either justify it, or conclude that the reasons they thanked it, is because of the exact same conclusions you reached about its meaning?

Are you being serious? Truly, WTF?! Reread my posts, and then yours. Which in a way, shows that you're the one being slow here, because you don't seem to grasp an understanding of why I asked. But let's not fall into a childish game of name calling, shall we?

I'm going off on a tangent?! What are you on about? It's nothing to do with my supposed inability to understand why my sarcastic musing backfired; it's more how could it have backfired? I.e. there's nothing to understand. Ramar, asked what sounded similar to a loaded question. It appeared as if he expected me to say, something along the lines of "no I don't sit in silence, whilst playing local multiplayer," and then he would jump to the conclusion that everyone wants/requires voice chat. When of course, such a conclusion is not quite true, is it? Like I've said many times already, not everyone likes voice chat, or cares so much about it's inclusion. Anyhow, who is this nearly everyone else, who made the link automatically? Link to what exactly? Talking to people, actual people in the same room, is different than using voice chat. The only thing I can assume, is that you in fact didn't actually comprehend my sarcasm. I said sarcastically: "Before voice chat existed, all games were crap. If a game doesn't have an element I want or a lot of people seem to want, then it's also crap." It was aimed at anyone who was making a big fuss over the lack of voice chat. Not just on this game either. I mean, isn't it simple enough to grasp, that if a game doesn't contain a certain element (such as voice chat), it does not always lead to the game being rubbish? By making such a fuss, it sort of implies that the game is already crap. Going back to what you said earlier, you said: "Of course, your joke comment backfired because Ramar basically substituted voice chat in your example of games of the past with chatting to people who were playing games with you locally." Which makes it sound, by using the word substitute, that somehow it leads to this: "Before (er? ) local chat existed, all games were crap." Of course that makes hardly any sense, so I have no clue to WTF you're on about with backfiring. "but not everyone is quick on the uptake" Is that supposed to be some sort of insult?

Yes, "some" people." Just because a game doesn't have voice chat, doesn't mean the game is crap. Even if the game has voice chat, it doesn't mean everyone is going to like using voice chat. Even if a person likes to play local multiplayer, and even indulge in conversation with nearby beings, it doesn't mean they will automatically like voice chat. Did you just liken playing people online to people actually being right there, next to you?

Yes, because it seemed like "some" people here, did appear to be holding an unhealthy obsession with voice chat. Backfired? Uh, please explain. Indeed. I never said anything to the contrary. There are people who don't like voice chat, or don't care either way, though.

This being the internets and all, I couldn't be sure if you'd got the sarcasm or not. That being the case, it wasn't clear if you were responding sarcastically, to a quote of mine you thought I'd made with genuine convictions - i.e. you could have been trying to say, that even before voice chat existed, when I played a local multiplayer game, I obviously could still talk with people. Now though, I see that you knew I was being sarcastic. So in that case, what exactly are you attempting to say? "I assume when you play local multiplayer with friends and family you all sit in silence?" This seems to come across, based on what I was originally saying, as you trying to defend that games are indeed crap without voice chat. Perhaps trying to set up some form of simple trap, whereby you hoped I would reply "of course we don't sit in silence," and then you would pounce on that, using it to proclaim that I therefore must need voice chat too - or something along those lines. It doesn't ring true, however. For example, I enjoyed playing online multiplayer on the Wii, when playing Mario Kart. So, "a fairly straight forward question to your sarcastic comment," it is not. In any case, my view is the same as in the post above from Rummy. The only side I was taking, was the "shut up whinging" side. If the game has voice chat, then great for sure; if the game doesn't have voice chat, then that's the way it is, no need to get your knickers in a twist. I don't care either way, if a person wants voice chat or doesn't want voice chat. Anyhow, it's better to move on from this, and get back on to the actual topic. I accept I have only added to the topic getting a little sidelined, so sorry for that.

I'm sorry, but I don't get where you're coming from. Plucking a quote of mine, without proper context, could mean anything.

I suppose, to me, it just comes across in a manner similar to complaining that an F1 game doesn't feature motorcycles. The game has been built to have or to not have voice chat, and that is how I'll judge the game. If I really desired for the game to have voice chat, then sure, I might ask if there's any new info pertaining to such; but I guess I don't see the point in moaning, if it turns out not to have it. I don't think it's as simple as the positive and negative example you give though. It'd be more true, if it was someone mentioning an element of the game - such as "awesome! it's got voice chat!!1" - over and over again, with a group of people bouncing off of that.

If it's a valid discussion, then it's fine to hold a different point of view. It's just that it seems to pop up so often; it's like a constant stream of, so game X doesn't or maybe won't have voice chat *whine - well done to you sir, congratulations! Before voice chat existed, all games were crap. If a game doesn't have an element I want or a lot of people seem to want, then it's also crap. So what if the game doesn't have voice chat? But yeah, some people do like voice chat so much, that their game purchases depend upon a game having it. That's perfectly fine, too. In fact, I don't buy any games that don't contain badgers.

That'd make sense, if supposing there were already blind gamers, who were now being left out. In any case, I was more referring to the people who're saying how voice chat gives you an advantage; but I realise now it was a bit of a silly point to make, in that you can't please everyone. OS level voice chat, is a good point though. It would be nice if it was included, and hopefully it will be maybe on the next console. Perhaps also, it'd be better to create a topic themed around this issue, so everyone who likes to moan that some game doesn't have voice chat, can get off on each others whinging - and leave a large portion of whining out of the individual game topics. I mean, I don't particularly care about voice chat, but some people do. To be honest, I think this game looks shit fucking awful. In this day and age, with the technology we have, no game should be without badgers. I mean FFS! How much work would it require to just add a fucking badger? I just can't enjoy games without badgers, and I don't believe I should have games forced on me without badgers being included. Why, thank you!

Voice chat is good and all, I like it, etc; however 99% of the time I have people over at the house - i.e. friends, friends of family, family and the like. Usually that means I don't get a chance to game, but on the occasions that I do, I don't want conversations from inside my house leaking out into the video gaming world. Yeah, true, most of the conversations are of course harmless, but some are quite private conversations between close friends and family. Surely the background noise seeping through into the mic, is an issue for some other people, too? Another issue I rarely see mentioned, is that of deaf gamers. If a game depends too much on voice chat, then there's people who could end up being unfairly left out, right? Naturally, we can't please everyone, and just because some people suffer from health problems, doesn't mean we should stop healthy individuals from having fun. It's just that from what I see a lot of on these forums, there's a strong vocal group who seem to want voice chat in every single game. I don't honestly believe, that every game that's online needs voice chat. It's quite boring coming to these forums sometimes, and everyone is either moaning that other people aren't buying the Wii U, or moaning that there's no voice chat. But like, I only enjoy games if they have voice chat I only think a console is good, if the vast majority own it too! -- F##k off.

Yeah, Wave Race, too! Damn, the SNES and N64, were really either special or happen to have just been available at the right time in my life. I can't think of any new games on the latest consoles that affect me in the same way. Long cut scenes and so-called story telling, tend to turn me completely off some of these new games. I'm not saying they aren't good, but for me, they seem to bore me. :/ Anyhow, Wave Race's controls and feel, seem to share something that Nintendo was prolific at in the N64 era. Somehow you felt connected to the game world, as if your character/vehicle had real weight. Even Mario 64 was the same, something which Mario Sunshine lacked, and the Mario Galaxy games still aren't quite there (but very close). 1080° Snowboarding like Wave Race, really let you feel each and every bump and dip in the surface. Surprising that with all the power available in the new consoles, that a small team back in the N64 days, managed with Wave Race, what few seem able to match nowadays.