jammy2211

I think he means high-end budget, which is fair enough. No one is going to spend something like $20 million on one Wii game, it's simply hard to imagine that sort of budget being possible to be spent on one game. Some facts for you all: Namco Bandai are currently developing 37 Wii games (Considerably more then the PS3 / 360). Capcom have a total of 6 Wii games in developement (exclusiding Resi Evil 4). EA have 17 + Wii games (again more then any other platform). Konami have 3 more exclusive Wii projects in developement. Grasshopper Interactive have 2 more exclusive Wii titles planned. They're all the companies I've asked / got from press releases who I can remember the stats of at the moment. The shift is going with the Wii, the big question now is will they deliver the quality? The quantity is certainly fufilled so we're half way there.

Well, I saw the thread on getting more discussion here, so I've decided to copy and paste one of my pieces of content on the site I work for. Hope we can create some discussion or whatever, it's related to the Wii so don't snud it cause of the topic title . _________________________________________________________________ The topic title may well have just got a few of you guys in a kafuffle, and as such I think I’m going to need to be extra careful when explaining what I mean. I’ve lately been looking at both the Xbox 360 and PS3 lineups and have been left with one question whenever I see a new game; “Where’s the innovation?â€. Companies are supposed to have a massive range of new features and power available to them in these behemoth machines, but why does everything feel like I’ve played it 5 years ago. I decided to do some research into why I may feel like this and whether this is a trend that will only be more common in the future. The PS3 and Xbox 360 are both incredible pieces of technology. I’m sure we’re yet to see anything close to what either machine is capable of and that perhaps one day we’ll be looking back on games like Gears of War and Resistance: Fall of Man and questioning how dated the graphics look. Unfortunately, with this push for HD gaming and photo-realistic graphics, both machines are putting a huge amount of pressure on the finances of any company developing for the machines. Development costs for both consoles have seemingly ‘exploded’ and it’s now common place for companies to be investing $30 million on just one project. With those sorts of overheads for just one game, is the industry honestly going to be heading in a positive direction? I think this is where my biggest worries lie in what both consoles offer. If a company is investing $25 million + on one game, the simple fact is they must be assured it’s going to sell enough to see profit. I think the best way to explain what I’m saying is in a hypothetical situation. A Big Name developer is starting a new $25 million budget project for the PS3 and Xbox 360, and they have to choose from either of the two game concepts below, which one do you think they’ll choose? : • A high budget, photo-realistic, first person shooter. It will deviate slightly from the tried and tested formula that saw games like Dead Rising and Resistance: Fall of Man sell over a million copies, and simply guarantees a good profit margin. • Or, an unproven game trying to create it’s own unique genre, with it’s own unique art style. The game could be the next big thing in gaming, but there is no guarantee it’ll go down well with the gaming world. There’s no doubt, that from a personal perspective I would love to try and develop the second game listed, but from a business perspective you would simply have to develop the first. This is simply where my worries are, are we ever going to see a company risk trying to develop a completely new and innovative game when development costs are so stupidly high? Or are we simply going to see a high range of Half Life clones, Gran Turismo clones, Grand Theft Auto clones and Oblivion clones? You may not be worried about what I’m saying, I can certainly enjoy games like GTA and Halo, but at the same time some my most enjoyed games are the ones which tried to create something new, fresh and innovative. If you’re a fan of the Guitar Hero series, you should be worried, if you’re looking forward to Spore, you should be worried, if you’re looking forward to LittleBigPlanet then you should certainly be worried. These are the sort of unique, unproven concepts for games that companies simply won’t be risking huge amounts of money to develop. (LittleBigPlanet is certainly one game I’m really interested by, but is very much an exception to what I am saying because it is a first party title and Sony can afford to risk developing projects like this). Although on top of this, I have a bigger worry for what these sorts of development costs mean for the industry. This is, the fact that it’s forming an elitism between the big name, high budget developers and small budget, indie developers. Both consoles are creating an environment where if a team of 20 or so people want to start developing a game, it’s simply not possible. There simply isn’t the opportunity for fresh and new independent development teams to start projects on these consoles, because of the price involved in development. Some of the most unique and innovative games of last generation came from these low-key independent development teams. Just look at LittleBigPlanet, the team developing that were only discovered by Sony because they managed to make such a unique and inventive game with Rag Doll Kung Fu. Are both of these consoles going to create an environment where companies wanting to make such unique games are simply not going to have the opportunity? Of course both Microsoft and Sony have done something to try and fix this problem. They both created stores which allow users to purchase and download games from what are typically low-key indie developers to their console, for a small price. It is a nice solution but again it worries me, seeing as firstly it gives these games a limited audience (To only those who have connected their consoles online), but also the games will generally be snubbed by most console owners. There is no doubt a limited amount of console owners who actually purchase games off of this store, and when they could be playing these high-budget games available at retail you have to question why they would bother with the download stores. On top of this all your typical big name companies are given the opportunity to release their old games on the store in new ways, such as adding online play or HD-support. Again, this further makes it more difficult for any small development team to be recognized. I’m going to quickly address what may be seen as a saving grace to these smaller development teams, and that is the Nintendo Wii. It was heavily criticized for going against the push for HD graphics, and it’s lack-luster hardware, but what you may not know is that the console is a gold mine for anyone looking to develop for it. Games for the Wii on average cost under a fifth of the cost for a multiplatform 360 / PS3 title, and the Hardware Nintendo used is far less complex to develop a game for. We’re already seeing many of the low-key development teams pledge their allegiance with the Wii, and plenty of the newly announced games are without a doubt completely unique and ground-breaking projects I don’t think anyone would have risked developing for a cost of $25 million +. Nintendo have created a platform which allows companies to take risks while experimenting with completely unique hardware (The Wii Remote), whereas both Sony and Microsoft have left developers having to be extra cautious. I would just like to express that these are my worries, and some of you may be happy with the way both the PS3 and 360 are taking the industry. I thank you for reading and hope that for the discussion preceding this article that we can try to keep things mature. Fan boy flame wars are not welcome and please try to think twice before slating someone else’s opinion or giving us your own.

The Third party support can't really be blamed on Nintendo. Every wrote the Wii off, the GameCube was a failure and PS3 was going to dominate everything. Thing is, this hasn't happend, and now that the Wii only proved itself 5 months ago companies have had to start developing the proper games for it around January time earliest. Games take over a year to develope, so obviously we don't know about the games yet. The games will come, cheap develpoment costs on a console selling so quick is a no-brainer for any businesses. With that support will come the innovative, as well, they go hand in hand. I'm really amazed by the third party support. When you think how forgotten the GameCube was, we're getting exclusive games from big francshies like NiGHTS, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Rygar, Soul Caliber and the Sims, as well as lots of new stuff / other franchises like Zack and wiki, Guitar Hero, No More Heroes and Opoona. If I had told you of a turn around like that before the Wii launched, you would have laughed very very hard. The progress it's made in terms of the upcoming line up in the 6 months is incredible, just we don't have anything yet, but it's obvious it's coming. Nintendo were in an impossible situation, no one was going to put any real effort into developing for the Wii except themselves, and they didn't have the money to go paying people. Sure, we're getting a pretty iffy first year but Nintendo are turning it around to make this sort of thing short term and not long term.

Well, you like the 360 games, that's lovely. The Wii has plenty of innovative games lined up. The third parties are VERY geared up to the Wii, just they haven't annocued anything yet for a series of reasons, but many have pledged their support whether they're the big name Capcom's and EA's or the small team low budget indie's. There are going to be some great games annouced for the Wii, just not yet. I'm pretty sure they all are: Konami - Dewy's Adventure / Eledees Capcom - Zack and Wiki EA - Boogie / MySims Square Enix - Dragon Quest Swords Koei - Opoona That's off the top of my head. These are first wave games and the best of the support isn't annouced. We're all veering away from the point anyway, and any of the points I make people seem keen to just completely go down an irellevent point, sigh. Thanks for your input, I hope you can carry on making productive and well-educated posts throughout the forums.

The Wii is the only console which allows developers to innovate under a budget. End of the day all developers are businesses, and they're primary goal is to make money. No one is going to risk $30 million developement costs to try an unproven game. Sure, companies could innovative on the 360 / ps3, but if anyone ever finds a publisher willing to back that sort of financial venture it'll be a miracle. They're not stopping, they're all moving to the Wii. And I don't see what is speculation, tons of copanies have spoken out about the high developement costs. I've already said about LittleBigPlanet in the first post. As I said, please don't respond if you're not even going to bother to read the first post, as it seems most of you have done so.

You're not even reading what I'm saying. Guitar Hero is an example of a game which came out of nowhere and HArmoxiner took the risk to develope because the costs were so low. It's turned out to be one of the best selling games of the decade and will next be on the 360, PS3, PS2 and Wii. The point I'm making is, companies won't risk these sorts of projects, these sorts of games that have never been heard of. Guitar Hero 3 can because it's a proven seller now and has a huge fanbase, but would Harmonixer have made Guitar Hero if to make one game it would have cost $30 million? No, not a chance in hell. That's the point I'm making, companies are in a position where they can't afford the risk of making something new or different, or innovative, because the losses ahead of them are so great. Please don't reply if you didn't read all of my original post, I'm having to cover everythign I explained pretty simply in it. I've not yet seen a post which seems to have nothing to do with my original point, sigh. I'm not saying the Wii itself is innovative, I'm saying as a platform is offers companies of all sizes the opportunity to develope innovative and unique games. The combination of extremely low developement costs, a diverse and growing userbase, the motion controls and the very easy hardware to develope for make the Wii a great platform to make innovative games. A console can only be as innovative as it's software, all I'm saying is the Wii is a console which allows companies to innovate whereas the other 2 don't.

I'm saying like games as innovative and unique as Guitar Hero won't happen on them. No one is going to develope a game for $30 million, when somehting like guitar hero could have flopped and not sold. They would take a risk like that on the Wii developement costs, (or ps2 as it was for GH) but no one will take those sorts of risks, and projects as great a Guiter Hero won't dare be risked for X360 / Ps3.

I reckon you'll be able to pick it up for £30, I'm getting a review copy so I ain't arsed :P. It's looking pretty good, i never played the original but if they can expand on the game to make it more of a 'full game' then credit to them.

Different direction =/= good directions. I give up on this anyway, have fun playing your high budget FPS's. I'll be worried for you all, cause games like Guitar Hero won't ever exsist this gen thanks to Sony and Microsoft.

Goddddddddd, people don't read my original post and any reply is based on nothing that I mentioned ^_^.

Did you actually read what I posted? These high developement costs mean companies can't dare make a game which hasn't been proven as a good seller. Companies won't risk trying out new genres, using the consoles amazing hardware to design something unique, because they can't afford to take that risk. On top of this, the only companies who can develope for the consoles are the big ones, any small low-budget teams are simply shunned. That worries me most, as there could be a great team of innovative developers who simply can't make their dream game. Wii has opened the window for big developers to risk their more creative and unproven projects (a la Zack and Wiki) while giving smaller low key developement teams a chance to release a game to a market where innovation can make a game more attractive then a big budget. I've spoken to alot of these developement teams and they all share the same philosphy and have pledged their 100% dedication to the Wii and DS. Wii developers will pick up, the first wave of games have been ports and poo because the Wii took everyone by surprise. I know that some of the projects started after the Wii was sold out worldwide for 6 months are far more acceptable, and that Nintendo arn't 'dictating' anything.

I have a responcibility, I shouldn't have mentioned it anyway but I'm a bit drunk so I don't have a second thought on things. Forget I said anything .

The thing is, what exactly out of that has been done before? Online Gaming / DLC was avaliable on the PC over 10 years ago, it's nothing new just they've now put it on a console. They've very much copied the philosophy of a PC and put it in a home entertainment system. And I still think PlayStation controllers are better, but that's just preference. It's hardly innovation is it? Yeah, the Wii is going to have crap, but that's inevitable. And can you blame the developers when they're putting $25 million into one project on the X360 / PS3? That's simply too much money to risk on innovation that might not sell. The consoles have created an environment where companies can't risk anything new, as it could result in huge losses. Except on the Wii, where developement costs are worth the risk, coupled with the Wii's controller, market and emphasis.

Ohhhhhhh it's so fun knowing about some of the stuff that no one else does :P. (I work for a website with 'sources'). I'm really looking forward to Namco Bandai's presentation now ^_^.

End of the day, 360 / Xbox sucks to the Socom community for PS2 :P. Wii needs to build a community... My sig has a link to a site trying to help do that. Mario Strikers isn't exactly the right game to do that though, I mean, it's a 1v1 football game at heart. Battalion Wars 2 will hopefully be where it all takes off.

Ahh right that makes sense. The game probably cost about $8 million to develope, so it's not exactly a massive loss (Considering they just sold some GTA downloads to Microsoft for $50 million). "Re-doing" the game won't be very expensive, I don't get where the hell these guys got a figure like that from but game developement on the PS2 is stupidly cheap nowadays.

How the hell did they manage to spend $25 000 000. That's absolutely obsurd, 360 games don't cost that much . We'll see what Rockstar do. Video games doesn't need a game like this being released and ruining it's image more so, after the Wii is doing so well in bringing the industries image back to a positive state in the mainstream media. I wanted the game but if it's going to cause the discrimination against video games like GTA did then I'd rather it gets toned down or something. We'll see what they can do about this I guess.

It's a Capcom game. Obviously it's not for everyone but I think as far as innovation, art styles and uniqueness go this game is far ahead of any other third party's efforts.

It's more that Nintendo are trying to create a way to keep developement cheap and easy for third parties. The online network they're trying to make it one that is very simple for a company to put online in a game and host a server at almost no expense. Of course, these things take time to set up. 90% of developers completely ignored the Wii due to GameCubes failures, and I think Nintendo are just ensuring third parties don't influx the Wii with a huge range of **** (Well more then there already is).

This is the most anticipated Wii game and I really think it's going to surprise alot of people. A must have for me and I hope it's as good as it's shaping up.

I've spoke to many PR contacts for the website I work for. Midway basically said the reason Mortal Kombat Armeggedon wasn't online was because Nintendo weren't allowing developers to put online in games. Harmonixer, Ignition and SNK all said pretty much the same thing about online and Mii integration, and I see no reason why it's going to be different here. Konami will develope the next PES for Wii, but there's no point when it's going to be so unappealing to most people when compared to FIFA. I'm not saying Nintendo said to Konami "No PES", I'm just saying they denied them online dev kits and Mii integration which would probably have just made the game look poor when compared to FIFA and hence sell bad and damage the franchise image for when it catches up next year.

Actually alot of companies would put online and Mii intergration in their games but Nintendo arn't giving access to these features. I'll explain the reason if you want, but Nintendo are being very restrictive with these features and won't let anyone have access until 2008. Also I think Nintendo and EA have struct up a contract over this. If Nintendo need a partner to get the casual market, it's EA, fact. Likewise, EA want a cheap platform to have a huge portion of their fanbase on, so they want to work with the Wii. I'm happy to give EA credit as they've now got 3 Wii online games lined up (Madden, FIFA, Tiger Woods) but it's unfair to be harsh to companies like Konami who are being snubbed by Nintendo.

You are rubber, I am glue.

Level swapping doesn't use a sever, online play does.

I reckon it might be Nintendo to blame for Konami's decision. Nintendo are very strict with who they give their online dev kits too, and basically most third parties can't develope online until 2008. If Nintendo denied Konami (As they seem desperate to get full support from EA, and this was probably in some contract) then Konami probably figured releasing it without online would be pointless. I think we'll see it next year, but I wouldn't blame Konami just yet. Also, give some credit to Konami, Dewy's Adventure is the best looking third party game to date and they have plenty more Wii projects under developement.