Posted October 16, 2006 would it really be that devastating if there was a ban? I mean can they absolutely not function in society without wearing a veil? Seems like the equivalent of telling a kid that he cant take his 'blanky' to school anymore. Not at all, you're just being facetious. Whether the Qur'an actually refers to dressing modestly as a religious requirement is a discussion for scholars, but it's definitely true that some Muslims see this interpretation as the correct one. Hijab is not intrinsically a form of oppression, it's a sign of devotion, of chastity, of asceticism. Now you can disagree with these values as much as you like, but no one has the right to trumpet their beliefs over those of another. If veils weren't important to some people there wouldn't be any uproar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 But some people do that just for the sake of it. It gives them a reason to without actually having to get "into trouble" so to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 Jedi is still not recognised as an "official" religion in any nation where the movement took place, and in fact there is no such concept in the United Kingdom. Surely this means anyones BELIEFS should be followed, whatever they were!! I want to know some official Jedi stuff now as I am now thinkin about converting to Jedi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 But some people do that just for the sake of it. It gives them a reason to without actually having to get "into trouble" so to say. Naturally, but that's humanity for you. However, that's 'some', not 'all', so you can't use that as an excuse to disallow people's right to complain. You can't generalise a minority's views upwards, it just doesn't work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 Yeah, I want to convert to Jedi too. Their beliefs are actually more logical than some bloke that made the earth in seven days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 Over here, we jokingly call these people "Ninjas" due to their shifty nature whenever you talk to one. I only believe in the Hijab, at least that lets you see their actual faces. I'm against veils, as they don't let you recognize anyone or see any kind of facial expression/recognition. Imagine being married to a veiled woman. What would happen if she got lost in a crowd full of other veiled women? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 Here's something pointless: * Mein Kampf sells many examples in England in areas with a large Arab population [1]. * An Arabic edition of Mein Kampf has been published by Bisan publishers in Lebanon. * Mein Kampf is sixth on the Palestinian bestseller list[2] and a bestseller in the entire Arab world [3]. * A new Turkish edition was reported to be a bestseller in Turkey in 2005 [6] [7]. And you recieved this information where, exactly?? C'mon, I was expected to read a load of Mein Kampf for GCSE history, it's not exactly shocking. As a sikh (muslims numba 1 enemy) i say it should be banned. Seriously, its NOT a part of their religion! Like someone else said, if a muslim man thinks his wife, when not wearing the 'veil', will run off with another man, well he's an idiot. You wah?? I was under the impression that Sikhs got on really well with Muslims...=S... Also: Aimless is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 My opinions of this are mixed: In one arguement you have to let people have a right to freedom of expression. One the other, you have to protect security and funtionability. Its wrong to say that smething is banned just becuase you dont agree on it, and let's face it, the veil isnt exactly doing any harm, yet. Therefore, trying to get a ban on it will have large consequences amongst our Muslim population. Anyway, for the anti-arguement: veils do restrict the face which poses many a problem. Now, I can't walk into a bank wearing a balaclava, nor can I wear my favourite hoody for a passport photo, its also common decenty (in my opinion) to show your face when you are talking to someone... Well, if you went to Saudi Arabia, would you be expected to dress like everyone else in their society? Things just don't seem to work two ways. Quite true I feel. Let's not forget that this is the UK, and as the UK we have our own culture (like it or not). I doubt anyone going over to Saudi Arabia would be treated the same as a Saudi visiting over here. Personally, this is how I see it. During the national census something like 10,000 or more people claimed their religion was Jedi (therefore making it an official religion – might have been more people than that). As a Jedi it is my duty to wear an over sized potato sack with a massive hood, so you can't see my face. I say, Jedi's unite, don your sacks of rebellion potato good-ness and see if they make you take your hood off! Note - stupid post to lighten the mood Im pretty sure the Census Office (and rightly so) discounted the Jedi-thing for what it was - a waste of taxpayers time and money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 I think they should start getting the chavs to wear veils around Bluewater instead of their hoodies, see if they get banned then :p No but seriously I don't think anyone should be told what to wear, if they want to wear a veil that's fine but if they want to have a conversation with someone this is England and they should be polite and show their face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 And you recieved this information where, exactly?? C'mon, I was expected to read a load of Mein Kampf for GCSE history, it's not exactly shocking. yes, because i posted it with the subheading: OH MY FUCKING GOD.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 I think a ban in places where normal people would be expected to take off hats, hood etc is a must. Its just double standards we are the natives surely we should have the most right Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 You can't just make up a hypothetical situation and pass it off as fact. Sure, reverse racism exists, but that's no way to back up your claims. Heck, I hate using the term 'reverse racism'. Racism is racism. By applying two different names it's subtely implied that the situations are somewhat different. This isn't the same thing but I get called everyday for being ginger. Nothing ever gets done about it. The most that will ever happen is they will get a lighthearted "stop it" from the teacher. yet once a kid made a racist joke and he was excluded. Where's the justice in that? Personally I think they should be banned. Like said before, you can't go into a bank with a balaclava and you can't walk around with a paper bag over your head no matter what your beliefs. We are supposed to be equal but I see no equality in that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 The main issue is that the lady who is suspended removed her veil in front of male governers and then refused to do so in the classroom. It was not seen as a problem initially, because the lady at first, removed her veil. This seems to have been the act of a "Trojan Horse". i.e. lull them into a false sense of security then make a political statement once inside the walls. The classroom is NOT the place to make a religious statement, however. What if my religion stated that I should p*ss all over everyone I met in the street? An extreme example,but I would feel that in the spirit of tolerance and understanding in another culture, that I should only p*ss on people in my own home. This is just a counter-attack as a means of portraying the lady as a victim. In all my travels around Britain I have never met a single muslim woman who felt obliged to wear the Niquab, and I have lived in some of the most predominantly asian communities in the UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 It shouldn't be banned. Wear it where they want except when law say's they otherwise. We all live in a society of equal rights, but as a democracy we can't ban anything that doesn't restrics other people's rights. Personaly, I hate them, I don't even like sunglasses, I need to see the eyes when I'm talking to someone directly. But I suppose that's what they're for, keep people away (the veils, not the sunglasses). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 Make it compulsary. I don't want to see your dirty female faces. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 If anyone comes to the UK, they should respect our countries beliefs, rules and decisions. Its the same if an english woman goes to Iraq and goes outside they have to be fully covered up. I'm not saying ban the veil all I'm saying is they can practice it in their homes and if they do go out they must take it off, if they can not cope with it move to another country. And before all you hippies jump on me I am fucking sick of all this political correctness bullshit. I'm not really a labour supporter but when Jack Straw said what he said I actually praised another member of the labour party Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 If anyone comes to the UK, they should respect our countries beliefs, rules and decisions. Its the same if an english woman goes to Iraq and goes outside they have to be fully covered up. I'm not saying ban the veil all I'm saying is they can practice it in their homes and if they do go out they must take it off, if they can not cope with it move to another country. And before all you hippies jump on me I am fucking sick of all this political correctness bullshit. I'm not really a labour supporter but when Jack Straw said what he said I actually praised another member of the labour party You've been praising other members of the labour party, in the same way you've been recieving anal sex from people other than women? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 16, 2006 If anyone comes to the UK, they should respect our countries beliefs, rules and decisions. Its the same if an english woman goes to Iraq and goes outside they have to be fully covered up. I'm not saying ban the veil all I'm saying is they can practice it in their homes and if they do go out they must take it off, if they can not cope with it move to another country. And before all you hippies jump on me I am fucking sick of all this political correctness bullshit. I'm not really a labour supporter but when Jack Straw said what he said I actually praised another member of the labour party Does it bothers you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 Hell yeah they shold stop being cowards, do they not realise all religion is made up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 Im pretty sure the Census Office (and rightly so) discounted the Jedi-thing for what it was - a waste of taxpayers time and money. Erm....No...How was it?? Unless of course you're talking about the Census Offices stupid Qs to be a waste of taxpayers money in the 1st place??? The whole Jedi thing happened in an 'everyday' census form thing, that asks lots of Qs for statistics. Jedi is the 4th largest religion in England & Wales "there is no such concept [as official religion] in the United Kingdom" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 Personally, i'm in a sort of limbo with this. As many have stated, you can't deny somebody's right to a freedom of expression. However, if somebody was to ask me "do you feel that the veil secludes these women from a large percentage of society?", i would have to say yes. If Islam is to 'move forward' and not seem outdated, then certain things have to change. I believe the veil is one of the things that should be changed. The other is the position of females in Islam, and many feel (and probably rightly so) that women are forced to take a back-seat in their own religion. This has to change. In total honesty, many women choose not to wear the veil anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 Yeah, I want to convert to Jedi too. Their beliefs are actually more logical than some bloke that made the earth in seven days. "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together." Yeah, well logical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 "an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together." Yeah, well logical. Of course it is. Gravity does that And plus, it's more belivable than God or something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 Yeah, I want to convert to Jedi too. Their beliefs are actually more logical than some bloke that made the earth in seven days. /agree Im pretty sure the Census Office (and rightly so) discounted the Jedi-thing for what it was - a waste of taxpayers time and money. Discounted - maybe, waste of money - Never Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted October 17, 2006 I'm sort of against religions in general. However if someone chooses to do something with is not offensive or harmful against others then what gives anyone the right to dictate whether it's right or wrong. This secuirty risk thing, yeah its possible. But its also possible that when you carry a back-pack there is a bomb in there. If we truly want to be very secure then our daily lives would be very limited. The terrorists are a tiny minority of society and they are probably intelligent enough to know that 'suspicious' dress will raise too much attention to anything they are planning to do. My point is that so many things can be interrpreted as a potential security risk, however they rarely are. I can, however, understand why people find it uncomfortable, as the face is used for many visual cues. However, the eyes are the most important visual connection we make and i can say i find mirrored sunglasses more uncomfortable with losing that connection. Anyway, as i said, i'm against religions in general. While not many preach violence, they all preach intollerance and its the moronic followers that believe this intollerance should be acted out with violence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
