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I know graphics aren't everything, but I'm a little concerned that perhaps Nintendo aren't giving as much support/knowledge to the 3rd party developers as they'd like. :\
Nah, they ought to have the necessary documentation.

 

Enough to make titles at least double as good graphically as most third party gamecube titles, since the console offers at least double the performance without optimizations when running the same code next to a gamecube.

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I wonder why developers release screenshots like this. It's obvious they can do far, fat better than this.

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I wonder why developers release screenshots like this. It's obvious they can do far, fat better than this.
Well this might be a really small team, intended for a portable PSP game that just ported it over and are going to release the game with these graphics... after all... Nintendo let's them.

 

The fact that it's cheap to develop for shouldn't mean crap games. they're not synonyms.

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Well this might be a really small team, intended for a portable PSP game that just ported it over and are going to release the game with these graphics... after all... Nintendo let's them.

 

The fact that it's cheap to develop for shouldn't mean crap games. they're not synonyms.

 

The way your saying it may be from a team that are doing PSP versions. Is wrong there were no dynasty warriors games for the gamecube, they have to start at what they know and build up its got a Q1 release date for Japan for christs sakes at least they are trying to fit a game to the controller, unlike other developers who are saying if they were allowed to use the shell controller option, NOT THE CLASSIC -thats only for VC games, then its actually easier to spend more time polishing up the graphics and have a good story.

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These screenshots are really, really, really awful, and there's no excuse for them.

 

Does Koei want their games not to sell on the Wii?

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Still, this looks horrible, I mean this could almost be a good DS game, it looks better in motion, but damn.

It's like Sony are paying devs to do this ;)

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I don't get it, really. They'r ridicularizing themselves. If the game is not ready enough to release screenshots then just don't do it. This is just bad publicity.

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Terrible. This is utterly shocking. I've tried to be even handed and fair with my opinions on the Wii and it's lack of graphical power. But if this kind of nonsense goes on it's gonna get slaughtered by the 360 and PS3, no one in their right mind would even think of paying the Wii's asking price for a system which produces sub-N64 graphics.

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Terrible. This is utterly shocking. I've tried to be even handed and fair with my opinions on the Wii and it's lack of graphical power. But if this kind of nonsense goes on it's gonna get slaughtered by the 360 and PS3, no one in their right mind would even think of paying the Wii's asking price for a system which produces sub-N64 graphics.
Lack of power? seriously... this is lack of talent :indeed:

 

Wii has enough power, so that's not the issue. As Wii is not inferior graphically next to a N64... infact it's superior next to GC and Xbox.

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Lack of power? seriously... this is lack of talent :indeed:

 

Bah... if I can only draw stick mens with Photoshop, it is clearly Photoshop's fault, not mine.

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I'm not in the best of moods today at all... so I'm gonna have a bit of a rant... So we as Nintendo fans lose the Resident Evil franchise, please don;t fob me off with rubbish about some 'Wii exclusive' which is basically a mish mash of old games with new 'improved' Wii-mote controls, we've lost Factor 5 and Silicon Knights, we certainly won;t be getting the new Tom Clancy games and I believe Free Radical have said 'no' for the new TimeSplitters game.

 

But we're meant to be happy with all these 'cool' 'new' Wii exclusives, like shoddy looking ports of old games which utilse the Wii mote - hell, Far Cry lookied a million times better on XBOX. Now we get this bloody insult, we saw better on the N64.

 

I think Nintendo may have come up with one of the greatest innovations in gaming history, and sadly they may have also doomed it to failure by packaging it with old technology.

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Is the person slashing with a swrod or what?

 

All I see is a big line going from one side of the screen to another.

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Factor 5 and Silicon Knights, we certainly won;t be getting the new Tom Clancy games and I believe Free Radical have said 'no' for the new TimeSplitters game.

 

Sigh....

 

Factor 5? Sure they did extremely good looking games, but their games lacked actual substance beyond being glorified tech demos. This was true during Turrican era and it was also true during Cube era. Probably will also be true during PS3 era.

 

Silicon Knights? Well, made two games during nine years. One was good (but not that good) horror game. Other was just port of Konami's classic. And from what we have heard, Too Human isn't shaping up that good. Plus, they haven't struck exclusivity deal with any publisher.

 

Free Radical? Well they haven't announced TimeSplitters 4 to any console, and if I have understood correctly TS as a series is on the copyright hell after EA screwed over FR. But they are working on unnamed Wii project (job application at Gamasutra shows this).

 

Tom Clancy games? Well, I personally didn't care them after realism was toned down to appeal greater masses. And Wii is getting Splinter Cell: Rogue Agent.

 

Plus Nintendo is d00m3d bullshit is getting cliched.

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Is the person slashing with a swrod or what?

 

All I see is a big line going from one side of the screen to another.

 

I think he's suppose to be using a sword,weird seeing a first person sword slashing game.I'm hoping it's a really early version of the game.

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I'm not in the best of moods today at all... so I'm gonna have a bit of a rant... So we as Nintendo fans lose the Resident Evil franchise, please don;t fob me off with rubbish about some 'Wii exclusive' which is basically a mish mash of old games with new 'improved' Wii-mote controls, we've lost Factor 5 and Silicon Knights, we certainly won;t be getting the new Tom Clancy games and I believe Free Radical have said 'no' for the new TimeSplitters game.

 

But we're meant to be happy with all these 'cool' 'new' Wii exclusives, like shoddy looking ports of old games which utilse the Wii mote - hell, Far Cry lookied a million times better on XBOX. Now we get this bloody insult, we saw better on the N64.

 

I think Nintendo may have come up with one of the greatest innovations in gaming history, and sadly they may have also doomed it to failure by packaging it with old technology.

Seriously... stop whining, this is a console not a soap opera of doom.

 

Far Cry didn't look any better on Xbox, it's just that you saw bullshot pics... AA wasn't any better, neither the draw distance nor lightning effects, also bare in mind that far cry uses a DirectX engine... Wii is not directX, Xbox is.

 

old technology? considering gamecube still has the fastest RAM on earth when it comes to sustained latency, and Wii is faster... considering GC has perfect fill rate for SD and Wii has 3 times that ammount? yeah right. besides Wii is even smaller than GC, while being better, sure portable computers are inferior in performance next to it's older brothers, but are they technically inferior? hell no.

 

As for Factor 5 and Silicon Knights... as much as I love Eternal Darkness... They were never good tecnically, I can forgive ED but it's really a game stuck between two generations tecnically. And now they are using unreal engine 3 middleware to do too human and shown a pretty crappy beta full of bugs a few months ago...

 

Do you see any second party nintendo game using middleware for a game? Nintendo has strict requirements for it's developers, and one of them is talent.

Just think, the day Zelda/Mario (or whatever) is made using something like that (external middleware engine) is the day Nintendo closes it's doors; and hell freezed over. When I see SK doing that I can't help but think that they are not good enough for Nintendo, not the other way around. They wouldn't get away with that while working as a Nintendo 2nd party.

 

Factor 5... well they choose what they want to do, they are tech geeks, and although they have good games, their focus is graphics over gameplay, always. that's not Nintendo's aproach, and there's no arguing that Nintendo games are better.

 

They mastered GC's architecture, thus... they don't feel the need to program for Wii; also take into account that they like dificult machines, thus... they find PS3 perfect (unlike most developers), we didn't lost them though, they were never exclusive to start with, they just choose to do games for the platform they consider most powerful and for that platform alone, because when you are pushing a platform strong points it's impossible to port it without toning it down in the game tech generation.

 

The Resident Evil franchise was a agreement of X exclusive games, not to mention Resident Evil started in Psone/Saturn... We could say that it's the same for them when GC exclusive agreement came out, they were the ones who lost a exclusive. Capcom is bound to be multiplatform, anyways... just think of how many ports they do of "exclusive games" and how many platforms have Street fighter 2 on them and you'll get a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about.

 

All in all I don't give a rat's ass, but if you do... just buy another console and stop whining.

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All in all I don't give a rat's ass, but if you do... just buy another console and stop whining.

 

Well, plenty of people on this board care. Plenty of us have been Nintendo fans since the days of the NES, even before then when we used to play Game & Watch. We love Nintendo games, and thusly we want Nintendo to be around forever, not to lose even more ground in the home console market.

 

It's not whining to support something you love and not want to see it fail. I'm not into football, but I can see why my mate's go ape with the management at Leeds United, they used to be champions and now they're not. The manager can't seem to see the problems that are blindingly obvious to the (dwindling) fanbase.

 

I remember what it was like being at school, I loved my SNES and I also loved rubbing in the fact it had better graphics to Megadrive owners. Yeah, that was a bit sad, but it's the way kids are. And that affects sales. I'm not whining or pulling Nintendo down, I just don;t want them to fail.

 

And just because I like them and don;t want them to fail, I'm not going to delude myself into thinking all their ideas and ways are 'great'

 

As a footnote to this, I have noticed a lot of people coming out with crap about the 'Nintendo approach'. Well, listen here, Nintendo's approach in the days of the SNES were about having more power, the same was true in the N64 days, and the Gamecube was hardly underpowered as we all saw with Resi 4, infact it was far better than the PS2. This new 'graphics don't matter approach' is fresh news.

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Well, plenty of people on this board care. Plenty of us have been Nintendo fans since the days of the NES, even before then when we used to play Game & Watch. We love Nintendo games, and thusly we want Nintendo to be around forever, not to lose even more ground in the home console market.

 

It's not whining to support something you love and not want to see it fail. I'm not into football, but I can see why my mate's go ape with the management at Leeds United, they used to be champions and now they're not. The manager can't seem to see the problems that are blindingly obvious to the (dwindling) fanbase.

plenty of whiners, will it make a diference? no.

 

It didn't make sense when they announced Wind Waker... and some of the fanbase was "hey we want realistic graphics! I'm gonna sell my cube, Nintendo is d00med"... it did make sense when they announced the name "Wii" - "hey, I want a powerfull name like PowerStation Twii!" ... it somewhat maked sense when people were expecting a freebye at $200 and got $250 "It's a rip off! Nintendo is d00med with their overated console".

 

It maked sense in the first 24 hours that is, going farther than that is just thinking too much, as in... having nothing else to do, IMO. I've actually never complained about these, and never looked back, seriously... I don't care.

 

We must see that we buy Nintendo for what Nintendo is... and Nintendo is the only brand out there capable of going against what the userbase and industry wants, when they see fit, they are the ones capable of making a diference. they make errors, but they also take profits from that, all in all... It's just what they are. Hell at least they try to be diferent when the others are trying to be equal.

 

In the end they are the company and we are the consumers... they existed for more than one hundred years they must know something.

 

On the Developers side... bare in mind one thing... Sony and Microsoft buy established names (studios and franchises), Nintendo creates them, When Nintendo gave it's hand to Square, Rareware, SK, etc... they were nothing... They gave Factor 5 the work of doing their DSP when they were unknown for designing chips, when Nintendo contacted IBM to do GC's CPU everyone was using something else, and look what everybody's using for this generation? when Nintendo gave it's hand to ArtX they were a small team... they were later aquired by ATi... but the headdesigners for R300 (9700/9800pro) architecture where from artX as it wouldn't be possible without them... Nvidia was so surprised that ATi holded the crown two years before they could respond with Geforce 6...

I remember what it was like being at school, I loved my SNES and I also loved rubbing in the fact it had better graphics to Megadrive owners. Yeah, that was a bit sad, but it's the way kids are. And that affects sales. I'm not whining or pulling Nintendo down, I just don;t want them to fail.

 

And just because I like them and don;t want them to fail, I'm not going to delude myself into thinking all their ideas and ways are 'great'

Nintendo's aproach on SNES was having a 16 bit console with less MHz speed than megadrive/genesis while coming out 2 years later... who did better image quality (more simultaneous colors), better sound and embedded enhancements like mode7... It was slower than Genesis... If that's "all not about power" I'm not following...

 

Still in that age you needed graphics, graphics serve a purpose and that is immersion... seriously, there was a big leap from NES to SNES, but there's no leap whatsoever from SNES to PSone when it comes to 2D games, apart from more storage space and flashy (kind of ugly IMO) fillrate light effects... apart from that; the scenarios the resolution and number of colors outputted was the same.

 

There was a big leap from PSone to PS2/GC/Xbox when it comes to 3D though, because you were simply too limited with that (psone) hardware... That doesn't hold true with next gen consoles, since you could do pretty much everything already, a good looking last generation game still looks good today...

 

And as I'm sure you know they wouldn't justify their graphical diference if they where not HD compliant, simply because you need a lot more power to outputt stuff in HD. Seriously, the diference between 15 million polygons and 30 million polygons in SD resolution is hardly noticiable. (take RS2 and RS3 from factor 5 as a example).

 

Next gen is all about Shaders and texture quality.

 

On that account Wii has more RAM than GC and is enhanced when it comes to shaders...

 

Those are just improvements though, Leon on RE4 has 10.000 polygons it's not having 20.000 on him that's gonna make a diference since it already looks good (RE0 and RE-remake on GC used 22.000 polygons per character).

 

Unreal Engine 3 often has less polygons on-screen than curent gen models and loads of displacement maps... that's why you don't hear them talking about polygons.And when you do it's things like "oh MGS4 uses as much polygons as a regular soldier in MGS3 only in Snake's moustache! the thing is... it would be downright stupid to waste polygons like that, they rendered them and coverted them into a displacement map, that's zero poligons if you will.

As a footnote to this, I have noticed a lot of people coming out with crap about the 'Nintendo approach'. Well, listen here, Nintendo's approach in the days of the SNES were about having more power, the same was true in the N64 days, and the Gamecube was hardly underpowered as we all saw with Resi 4, infact it was far better than the PS2. This new 'graphics don't matter approach' is fresh news.
Most of the people I still see complaining about Wii's architecture know next to nothing about GC's architecture though. that's my biggest complain. Sure, there is a improvement over something that exists, but it's a improvement over one of the best balanced platforms ever... is that crap now?

 

Look at ATi/Nvidia most of their cards (ATi 9700/9800 to x700/x800; Nvidia Geforce 6 to Geforce 7...) could be called core redesigns, they won't scrap all their legacy technology just because... if it works leave it be, that's called evolution.

 

And Gamecube was a nearly perfect architecture already (unlike Xbox and PS2).

 

Taking from that view Cell is a improvement from PS2's Emotion engine who was a CPU with lots of GFlops and 2 vectors (with low RAM that maked them dificult to sync)... And since developers complained and even sony was only able to push it a few years after launch... they get us a chip with lots of fill-rate, slow general purpose and 7 vectors (with low RAM)...erm... SPE's; do I see a pattern? seriously if I was a developer I'd think "are they kidding me?"

 

About Nintendo's sucess... Sure, it would be good, good for Nintendo... But I don't care as long as I get the games I want, first party and second party titles.

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Cmon now, there's nothing idiotic about that post.

 

Nintendo (gotta love em) struts in from a 3rd place market position and tells developers:

 

''We have decided that you, the developer, do not want to make your games look better. And we've also decided on behalf of all consumers, that they do not want significantly better looking games''

 

''GO FORTH AND MAKE YOUR FORTUNE ON OUR SLIGHTLY IMPROVED HARDWARE!''

 

In Nintendo's defense, i do think theyre initial intent was to make porting so difficult that 3rd parties would instead, just create new games from scratch. Looking at the upcoming release list , it seems to have backfired. Were not getting 360/PS3 ports, were getting PS2/DS ports.

Sure you can blame the developers for being lazy, but these developers have THREE consoles to develop for , while Nintendo only needs to worry about one.

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