Smash-a-likes

[Ashley]

A lot of developers have tried to create a Smash Bros-esque game bringing together characters from franchises in order to have them beat the crap out of each other and none of them have really made much of a success of it... But let's talk about it. 

Ready? Go!

[Ike]

I'm going to stay on topic by saying they all suck, whilst going slightly off topic; because they reason they suck is because of one thing: They don't have Masahiro Sakurai.

Which ties in nicely with a video he posted on his channel recently.

In it he reveals that Iwata doesn't trust anyone else with the series to the point that if Sakurai hadn't agreed to do Brawl, it would have been a port of Melee with online play tacked on.

What happened was known., but it was interesting to hear it direct from Sakura.

Seems Sakura is also willing to do another Smash - if it happens.

[Ashley]

12 minutes ago, Ike said:

Seems Sakura is also willing to do another Smash - if it happens.

I do worry it will kill him though. 

[Ike]

11 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I do worry it will kill him though. 

Oh, same.

I’d be fine if they just port Ultimate forever if it prevents Sakurai from working himself to death.

[S.C.G]

5 minutes ago, Ike said:

Oh, same.

I’d be fine if they just port Ultimate forever if it prevents Sakurai from working himself to death.

We were just talking about this on Discord as we were playing Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

If there was to just be an enhanced ultimate port, it would be cool to see at least some new alternate stages, or some altered stages, maybe a stage featuring the Super Mario Bros. Wonder aesthetic, as it would be good to see some of the more recent Nintendo games, or soon to be released, but before the next Smash game titles.

As far as the roster of characters goes though? It's almost perfect... we're just missing Rick the hamster.

But when it comes to Smash-a-likes... there aren't really any which seem to stack up.

I've heard Rivals of Aether mentioned before, but even then... it's not Smash.

The most fun I've had not playing a mainline Smash Bros. game, is playing Smash Remix, as it almost feels official, and it has characters like Marina from Mischief Makers, Goemon from Mystical Ninja, and Conker from Conker's Bad Fur Day, complete with chainsaw and flamethrower... I doubt we'll see that in an official Smash game, cool as it is.

[Glen-i]

The one constant, recurring, biggest problem with these Smash clones is that they always seem to be designed with the hardcore, competitive people as the intended audience. But that's not the majority of the Smash audience. The majority of the Smash audience are people who buy the game because "I can make Mario, Sonic, Pikachu, and Steve fight each other, and that's super cool!"

Sure, some of the latest ones like Nick All-Star Brawl have some of that star power backing them up, but a lot of people quickly realise that the game doesn't really accomadate the more casual kind of people who would play Smash with items on, and will happily play most of the stages because of the crazy and imaginative obstacles, not despite them. So they quickly bounce off of them.

The other Smash-likes just don't seem to understand this.

28 minutes ago, Ike said:

In it he reveals that Iwata doesn't trust anyone else with the series to the point that if Sakurai hadn't agreed to do Brawl, it would have been a port of Melee with online play tacked on.

What happened was known., but it was interesting to hear it direct from Sakura.

Seems Sakura is also willing to do another Smash - if it happens.

It's quite impressive that Sakurai has become so synonomous with "High Quailty Games" that even Disney and Microsoft feel comfortable letting him handle their IP's. Sure, he's got Nintendo's budget and a top development team backing him up, but it's safe to assume that if some third party developers got that call telling them they want to use their character in Smash, they'd seriously consider it.

I can't think of another developer with that much clout. He's clearly passionate about games (To a fault at times), and he's stated that getting to work with that much gaming history is a dream. And I totally believe him.

Of course, unless we get a port of Ultimate (Which I would also be totally fine with), we're not going to get a Smash with that big of a roster again. Hell, even a port with every character might be a pipe dream because of the sheer massive hurdle of getting some 3rd parties to co-operate.
If Nintendo can get it to happen though, then yes, port Ultimate as long as possible (Add a few extra characters and stages, naturally). I usually hate the idea of "Games-as-a-service", but Ultimate is so much of a miracle, I'd be fine with it in this case.

5 minutes ago, S.C.G said:

The most fun I've had not playing a mainline Smash Bros. game, is playing Smash Remix, as it almost feels official, and it has characters like Marina from Mischief Makers, Goemon from Mystical Ninja, and Conker from Conker's Bad Fur Day, complete with chainsaw and flamethrower... I doubt we'll see that in an official Smash game, cool as it is.

Smash Remix is the one exception here. Because unlike other mods to Smash games, this one understands that yes, people like items and wacky stages. Most people find "Tournament Legal" stages a bit dull. So the mod accomodates all sorts, while maintaining the spirit of Smash Bros. Limiting their roster to only video game characters that existed during the N64 era. (Except Dark Samus, which is admittedly weird, but I imagine that was before they had the skill to make truly unique characters in Smash 64)

[Ashley]

11 hours ago, Glen-i said:

It's quite impressive that Sakurai has become so synonomous with "High Quailty Games" that even Disney and Microsoft feel comfortable letting him handle their IP's. Sure, he's got Nintendo's budget and a top development team backing him up, but it's safe to assume that if some third party developers got that call telling them they want to use their character in Smash, they'd seriously consider it.

I can't think of another developer with that much clout

I was watching a video about the PlayStation All Stars thing (which inspired this thread) and this was an issue that was raised. Even though it was work done for Sony it was a new studio and given a lot of franchisees synonymous with PlayStation are third parties they were reluctant to take a punt (and pointed out it was the third Smash game before third parties got involved). Plus some awkward timing things like Tomb Raider was about to be rebooted so they didn't want the classic Lara in there and it fell through. 

Nintendo really is the only game developer that easily has access to a wide array of game characters, which I think is why a lot of studios are trying ones based on other media. Although I imagine there's probably still a few annoying rights issues that get in the way as certain franchises will have their videogame rights with different studios. 

[Dcubed]

I’m not sure if it really counts as a Smash-A-Like, because it’s not really a “fighting” game per-say, but it certainly takes enough inspiration from Smash that it deserves a mention in the conversation at least…

Lethal League, and its sequel Lethal League Blaze are a genuinely unique take on the platform fighter that is half Smash Bros, half Squash.  If you haven’t played either game? I strongly recommend you do! There’s nothing else quite like it out there, it’s fast & frenetic fun that certainly has a lot of Smash Bros’ DNA in it, but it’s absolutely its own thing… something that most other platform fighters don’t pull off.

The art style and music is also sick AF!

I say that if you’re gonna take inspiration from Smash Bros, you can’t just copy what that game is doing.  We already have Smash Bros, nobody wants discount Smash Bros.  Give us something new and fresh that is inspired by Smash Bros instead!

BTW, small aside, but the developer that made Lethal League and LL Blaze (Team Reptile) are currently making Bomb Rush Cyberfunk, which looks superb! Anyone who even remotely likes Jet Set Radio should be keeping their eye on it 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Dcubed

[Glen-i]

31 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

I’m not sure if it really counts as a Smash-A-Like, because it’s not really a “fighting” game per-say, but it certainly takes enough inspiration from Smash that it deserves a mention in the conversation at least…

Lethal League, and its sequel Lethal League Blaze are a genuinely unique take on the platform fighter that is half Smash Bros, half Squash.  If you haven’t played either game? I strongly recommend you do! There’s nothing else quite like it out there, it’s fast & frenetic fun that certainly has a lot of Smash Bros’ DNA in it, but it’s absolutely its own thing… something that most other platform fighters don’t pull off.

This is a really great example of how to make a game that appeals to casual and hardcore people alike.

Lethal League is immediately understandable. "Hit ball really hard at your opponents". You can go in completely fresh with 3 other friends who are also new to the game, and the chances are, you'll get the basics down really quick and have a blast just learning the ropes while playing together. The game is hectic, and prone to moments when one person can start accidentally doing some crazy shenanigans, which serves to heighten the fun. There's a decent variety of side modes that add a twist to the gameplay to help stop it getting too stale as well.

But underneath the basics, there are some more advanced tricks that help to flesh out the game, It nails that "Low skill floor, high skill ceiling" that Smash does so well.

Mind you, it doesn't nail everything that Smash does. The single player options are pretty sparse (That's another issue lots of Smash Likes fall into, focusing purely on Multiplayer).

That said, I don't think I agree with Dcubed that Smash Likes shouldn't try to emulate Smash. I mean, Playstation All-Stars tried to distance itself from Smash gameplay quite a bit, and that game absolutely blows chunks as a result.
Developers just have to realise that's it's not just one aspect of Smash that makes it so successful.

[Jonnas]

Surely the genre can be simply called "Platform Fighter", right? There were other examples to the genre, even before PS All-Stars.

The fact that Smash Bros. codified the genre really lead to most developers thinking the formula needs to be a crossover mascot fighter to succeed, huh? Between PS All-stars, Nickelodeon Brawl, and Multiversus, there really isn't a major developer out there that just thinks the system can work on an original IP. Sure, Indies got you covered with Rivals of Aether (as they usually do), but mainstream discourse is really stuck on the mascot crossover thing.

Anyway, the real reason Smash Bros remains the king is just how... vast it is:

• The physics engine is very flexible, allowing for a seemingly infinite combination of interactions (despite the relatively limited movesets)
• Stages are incredibly varied, from the tourney-legal, to the barely legal, to the gimmicky, to the outright insane. Lots of choice to be had.
• Items. I fully understand those who don't like them, just as I understand those who do, but there's no denying that they transform the game in a million different ways.
• Robust single-player modes. Every game (bar 64, I suppose) has had one or more of these, encouraging a controlled way to get into the game.
• Excellent collectibles, whether they be trophies, stickers, or spirits.
• Immaculate presentation.
• And of course, the massive mascot crossover itself.

Like, any one of those things could be "the gimmick" for a single game. Soul Calibur built a career out of barely ticking two of those boxes. Street Fighter gets called revolutionary for learning how to tick three of these with the latest installment.

Smash Bros has somehow been firing on all cylinders to include all of this, and be good at all of them. Very large footprints to follow.

[Dcubed]

Agreed.  Smash Bros is such a tough act to follow that even Smash Bros itself basically has no future now after Ultimate.

That's why it's not worth trying to go head to head against it, you're never going to come off looking favourable.  You need to do something drastically new and original.

[Ashley]

12 hours ago, Jonnas said:

Surely the genre can be simply called "Platform Fighter", right?

Yeah but where's the fun in that?

And also I didn't think of that when posting.