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Dcubed

Epic VS Apple 3 - Fate of Two Worlds

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Figured that it was high time we had ourselves a dedicated thread to this ongoing malarkey!

The trial officially started today; so let's get a thread going!

Here's a link to the live hearing taking place right now...

 

Discuss all the juicy deets, the leaks, the debate over the current 30/70 split and the potential ramifications for the future of the console gaming industry here!

 

Edit:  Here's another livestream being hosted by Geoff Keighley

Edit 2:  Court Records documents being uploaded here

Edited by Dcubed
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Worth noting that a big crux of Apple's argument is the potentially industry destroying ramifications on the console market if Epic should win this case...

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Never thought we'd see Apple batting for Microsoft and Nintendo, but here we are!

Also this...

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/5/3/22417447/fortnite-revenue-9-billion-epic-games-apple-antitrust-case?utm_campaign=theverge&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

$9 Billion in just two years? From a single game!? Absolutely unreal!

No wonder they're throwing money around like it's going out of style! They could afford to buy Square-Enix or Capcom with that kind of cash! :o 

 

Edited by Dcubed
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Details on how much Epic have been paying developers for EGS exclusivity/free givaways...

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And Borderlands 3...

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$115 MILLION DOLLARS

Edit:  Looks like Epic were also indeed working on a Samus cameo for Fortnite that appears to have been scrapped @Glen-i (Nintendo seemingly put the kibosh on the idea after Epic presented it to them).

https://fortniteinsider.com/fortnite-nba-lebron-james-the-rock-ariana-grande-naruto-lady-gaga-hunger-games-collabs-could-be-coming-soon/

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Talk about dodging a bullet!

Edited by Dcubed
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Oh yeah! Haven't posted this gem here yet either...

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Proposal No7!? WOW! Talk about getting too big for your britches!

Makes you wonder about how much they're bullying the likes of Nintendo behind the scenes regarding UE4...

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Details on revenue generated through EGS...

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Not exactly impressive numbers outside of the artificial sales spikes...

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A few randomly selected documents that have been newly uploaded into the repository that I found interesting...

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Yes, they want to pull the same stunt on consoles eventually

 

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Nintendo actually has lower platform fees for Fortnite download cards than their competitors (perhaps because they've been bullied by Epic more than the others; given their position of weakness coming off of the Wii U)

 

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A list of all the various companies that have done outsourcing work on Fortnite.  Surprised to see Iron Galaxy there!

 

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Various sales targets being missed and why; also proof that Epic see Apex Legends as a direct competitor (not surprising, but still interesting to see)

 

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Letter between Tim Sweeney and Yves Guillemot (Ubisoft CEO) about a data breech/70% fraud rate on their games on EGS!

 

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Scuttlebutt about their fear of rocking their relationships with the console platform holders

 

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Scuttlebutt about Epic trying to force the console platform holders to allow per-game subscriptions

 

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All open platforms are equal, but some are more equal than others

 

I've also seen rumblings of a Nintendo document related to Epic floating around, but I can't find the actual document itself...  Still, the available pictures online of said document are pretty funny...

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The Nintendo Ninjas don't piss about!

Edited by Dcubed
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Found the Nintendo document!! (It's the Nintendo Switch Content License and Distribution Agreement document)

Turns out that you can just pop the case number into the search engine at https://www.courtlistener.com/ and all the submitted documents show up! Handy! (BTW, the case number is 4:20-cv-05640-YGR for those interested in doing some digging ;))

Nothing too crazy in there, as you saw before, all the really good stuff has been redacted (actually, there's a really funny seperate note on there that basically talks about how Nintendo were pissed off about being dragged into this and that they were pissed off at Apple for trying to drag their confidential documentation out in the open without going through Nintendo first :laughing:).

There are a couple of interesting things we can gleam from the redacted document though...

First...

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Nintendo uses the monthly average exchange rate on OANDA.com to determine currency conversion rates for their developers (and presumably all other pricing related currency conversions too).  So now you know how they do their regional pricing!

Secondly...

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There's a specific portion in the Developer Agreement that only applies to Japanese developers.  Basically, Nintendo will not do business with you if you have direct ties with the Yakuza... which is a thing within the Japanese video game industry.

Edited by Dcubed
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10 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Basically, Nintendo will not do business with you if you have direct ties with the Yakuza

Well that explains why the franchise has been largely absent on Nintendo consoles.

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Day 2 hearings have just started, and (thank God!) the audio is much better this time around.

Off to a fun start!

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Paradox Interactive published Cities Skylines BTW; so this unannounced exclusive would likely be pretty major as far as PC games go (Probably Cities Skylines 2 I reckon).

And yeah... EGS isn't about making money within any reasonable timeframe; it's about mindshare and console platform control.  The real end goal is to wrestle control away from Microsoft, Sony & Nintendo and commandeer control of their console platforms.

Edited by Dcubed
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Think that's the first time we've gotten actual confirmation (rather than pure rumour) of Microsoft's plan to put X-Cloud out on Playstation 4/5 & Switch...

Also shows that Microsoft dropping the XBL Gold requirement for F2P games has been in the works since at least August 2020 (Around 5 months before it was announced; meaning that it was NOT done in response to the backlash over the XBL Gold price hike!).

This is also probably why Microsoft are dropping their revenue share on the Windows Store (and soon to be Xbox console store too) to 12% to match EGS.  They're in on Epic's plan.  All to get Xbox Gamepass/X-Cloud on Playstation & Nintendo platforms.

Edited by Dcubed
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Of course MS are in Epic’s corner. They want Gamepass on everything, that way they will have a presence on every device without any hassle. From the outside it will look great, allowing their games on different platforms, but really it will be a Trojan horse tactic to undermine their rivals own storefronts. 
 

Gotta imagine all 3 of the console makers are t happy their dirty laundry is getting shown for all to see. It’s certainly going to be interesting to see the fallout from all of this, regardless who wins the case. 

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LOL! Certainly explains a lot about him and his company!

Double LOL! Sick burn right there! 

Edited by Dcubed
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11 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Gotta imagine all 3 of the console makers are t happy their dirty laundry is getting shown for all to see. It’s certainly going to be interesting to see the fallout from all of this, regardless who wins the case. 

Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier, and while I could see PlayStation and Xbox grinning and bearing some of it (though some of the internal PlayStation stuff floating around too likely does annoy them quite a bit), I could see Nintendo being absolutely miffed right now, because they clearly seriously hate leaks. Now they'll never hear the end of Samus not coming to Fortnite, which will probably make them clamp down harder and be less inclined to have a character turn up in Fortnite in the future. 

I honestly could see heads rolling at Epic after this, I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Three put a lot of pressure on the higher-ups at the top of Epic's hierarchy, Sweeney in particular. I have no idea if this was his stupid idea, but I could see them posing to move out of deals which haven't yet been acted on (such as potentially anything they would have in line for Unreal Engine 5) to get their way and get him out. 

On the other hand though, as someone interested in the industry, this has seriously been eye-opening. Can someone do this to Disney next please? Let's see the Mouse sweat :laughing:

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12 minutes ago, Julius said:

Now they'll never hear the end of Samus not coming to Fortnite, which will probably make them clamp down harder and be less inclined to have a character turn up in Fortnite in the future. 

I don't believe for one second that Epic actually care for any of the properties they've shoved into Fortnite. It doesn't feel like it comes from a place that has the same kind of respect as the likes of Smash Bros, Link in Soul Caliber or projects like Cadence of Hyrule.

I'm like, 99% sure the Samus Cameo was shot down by Nintendo because Epic would've wanted it across all platforms.

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Quote

Apple Attorney: "If Apple offered you a deal, but did not offer a deal to other developers, would you have accepted?"
Tim Sweeney: "I would have"

 

Edited by Dcubed

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7 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Judge knows what’s up.

See, this is the perfectly acceptable way for all Epic's customers to avoid paying any fees to Apple or Google (Or MS, Sony + Nintendo for that matter).

Just make it so they can't buy V-Bucks in the game / app. Make them log in to the website on a PC, or even on their phone browser, and buy them there.

But they won't do that.

Cause kids won't want to do that.

And mum's credit card isn't saved to the PC browser.

And 90% of their sales would disappear overnight.

And they're blatantly exploiting this fact.

And Tim Sweeney is a repugnant little man. 

This has been obvious from the very start, Timothy. You are going to lose this lawsuit badly and make a lot of enemies in the gaming industry. Hope it's worth it, because I have very, very little hope for your company if you're shunned by Nintendo and Sony. 

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More newly uploaded documents... (Tim Cook's response to Tim Sweeney in the second email document is hilarious)

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Edited by Dcubed

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