Londragon

N-E Café Podcast

Recommended Posts

Dara O Briain touches on this weeks topic in one of my favourite bits from him. The whole bit is about gaming and well worth a watch but the very start of it is what's relevant to what was discussed on the podcast.

I've got a few things I could say on the topic (it's one that really boils my blood) but I'll wait until I'm back home and in front on a keyboard.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Nicktendo said:

Come on Jonnas, You can't dangle the carrot of a rant and then back away.

We're all ears... :grin:

Maybe after I get my keyboard back :heh: 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'N-E Cafe [052] Grow Up!' is now available at the N-Europe YouTube Channel.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The disdain of gaming discussion was really interesting & good to hear the experiences of others.  I used to feel similarly, that gaming was very much looked down upon.  I have to admit though, that I haven’t experienced this anywhere near as much as I thought I would in recent years.  I’ve had children I coach speak to me about gaming without seemingly bothered that I was an adult, and then I’ve discovered many of the people I work with, coach with, and socialise with, have admitted enjoying gaming.

I admit I often find it hard to start a topic about gaming if I don’t know the other people are interested.

I did have the whole “well I bet you can’t go a week without playing” on a few occasions.  I’ve usually accepted the challenge and after doing so, when asked if I felt better(!?) I admitted that I hadn’t really and in most instances found activities I’d done instead to be less enjoyable.

With the popularity of gaming still increasing and it being seen in the mainstream media more (along with stories about prize money in e-sports) I feel the stigma attached is getting less.  Sadly from your discussion it’s sad to hear it does still exist.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's something that I honestly hate seeing and I just pin it down to people being out of touch and pure ignorance. 

In my last place of work, all of us in the lab worked closely with the software team. Most of the software team were into gaming and there was plenty of gaming banter happening on a daily basis. One day, we were all discussing our gaming achievements and I mentioned my love of trophies, my UK ranking, coming first and top 5 in the world multiple times in terms of unlocking trophies and achievements and topping the world leaderboards of Street Fighter on the Switch. Everyone couldn't believe it and were all impressed. Well, except for the software manager. The guy was in his 50's and very much a corporate type. Typical, brown nose, money obsessed business man. He turned to us all and said it was a waste of time and it wouldn't help you get a job. None of us ever said it would! I let it slide and just ignored the comment but I did wonder, has he ever been number 1 in the world for anything that he has done in his life? Probably not. It may be just a hobby but these things are something i'm very proud of.

Another incident in the same company happened with one of the software team. We used to hold monthly presentations where a person would pick a topic and create a presentation on it. The company orientated folk would do something related to the work we would be doing but who I class as the normal people would do something that was a hobby of theirs. Rory was just a young apprentice and he decided to do his presentation on eSports. After the presentation, the CEO of the company (again, very business type and in his 50's) asked Rory how much time he spent playing games and did he not think it was a waste of time and that he could be doing something better. I was fuming. I actually help Rory a little with the presentation and specifically told him to put in how much the gaming industry makes in comparison to every other entertainment industry, hoping that this would open the eyes of the ignorant. Clearly it didn't work. I could tell that Rory was a little upset and maybe embarrassed by it all. The CEO knew I was a big gamer and after the meeting asked me how much time I put into gaming. I've never been shy about my hobby and simply said "As much free time as I possibly have" and walked off. 

It's these kinds of attitudes towards gaming that really boils my blood. If you don't understand why someone likes the hobby then that's fair enough but trying to bring someone down because of it is just disgusting behavior, especially when there are far worst past times. As Greg mentioned, drinking alcohol, something that is physically bad for you, is somehow seen as acceptable and yet gaming, proven to help with depression, hand eye coordination and multitasking, is seen as some kind of taboo. For religious reasons I have never touched alcohol in my life but I don't bring down those who decide to spend their time doing so. I used to work with a guy who used his holidays every pay day to go out drinking. It was what he liked doing and it brought him joy. None of us mocked him when he came back to work and said what he was doing was a complete waste.

I hate that the hobby is still seen as a kids thing to do. I remember a guy I used to work with at a previous job I had around 10-12 years ago. His name was Danny and it was in his early 60's. He liked nothing better than getting in from work and playing something like Call of Duty. He said he found it very therapeutic after a hard days work and found it much more relaxing than watching TV. He would always tell us stories of him and his wife arguing. Just would accuse him of wasting his time but his comeback was always that she spent more time watching the likes of Coronation Street, Emmerdale and Eastenders than he did playing games. Check and mate. :D  

Outside of those couple of incidents, i've been lucky enough in my life to have friends who are all gamers and a family who are happy as long as i'm happy. My parents never questioned my love of gaming and to this day still ask about it and what i'm playing. They've always taken an interest in it.

I'm not going to deny that they are negatives to the hobby. You hear stories of people dropping countless amounts of cash on microtransactions, people quitting jobs just to play games and kids becoming so addicted that they have hissy fits when they get their controllers, phones or iPads taken away from them. It's these stories that can strike fear into parents and I don't blame them for thinking that gaming could be a bad thing for their children. However, like anything in life, balance is the key. If a child has done their homework and as healthy social interactions with their friends then I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to play games. The same goes for adults. I do a 40 hour week at work, go to the gym and cinema with friends ( well, before covid hit) and go for runs on the road. After that it's time for gaming and I think I have a decent balance and i've earned that time to play on my consoles.

I could go on and on about this subject but I think i've ranted on enough. :p 

I will touch on a topic that has popped up a couple of times in recent weeks on the podcast and that is of the rumoured Switch Pro. Honestly, if all it turns out to be is a more powerful version of the Switch then i'm not really fussed. Yeah, the Switch could do with a bump up in power but for me that isn't the issue with the hybrid. My issue is with the games or the lack thereof and no amount of power increase will solve this. I'd much rather that time and energy went into the game making process and Nintendo started pumping out software that felt special again because at the moment that magic seems to have been lost by them.

The power increase may help in terms of 3rd party support but once again this will still come with it's own issues. If developers can't get the games out at the same time as the other consoles, as well as get them running well, then it's completely pointless. Just look at the whole Doom Eternal fiasco that has occurred. At this rate it could be nearly a year since it was released on the other platforms and despite this it will still be running worse and be more expensive. How much is it going to be on the eShop? £50-£60? It's now kicking around the sub £20 mark for the other consoles. I know Greg made the point a fair few weeks back now saying that he was questioning why he would be buying a Switch version of the game just to have something to play on it when he had a PS4 sitting there. It's a valid thought. I know Nick also seems to follow this path, with a lot of his purchases being on Steam and why wouldn't he? The games are cheaper and run better.

In the past I think a lot of us on here would support Nintendo for the sake of it. We've all been fans of theirs for so long that it was kinda force of habit but as we've got older I think most of us have changed the way we think and are happy to spend our money and time on other platforms, especially if games release quicker, run smoother and are at a cheaper price. 

Edited by Hero-of-Time
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's something that I honestly hate seeing and I just pin it down to people being out of touch and pure ignorance. 

80% of my extended family say "Hi".

I gave up ages ago with trying to justify my hobby. Just not worth it.

But by far the worst was my previous stepmother, (Dad divorced her) she had a bizarre hatred of consoles. Didn't matter whether homework was done, weather was awful, or power went out, she threw a hissy fit if my DSi was being used. You'd think living in the middle of nowhere in Ireland would allow you to spend free time how you want, but nope.

Amusingly enough, I managed to weaponise Art Academy against her. She tried to give the whole "Do something more meaningful with your life" spiel only to take the DSi and realise that there's a painting I did of the view outside our window on it. Constantly messed with her head there. Super cathartic.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Justifying your hobby is never worth it.
And judging another person's hobby isn't either.

Oh, you spend x money and x time on whatever it is you enjoy? Awesome and good for you.
Unless it's some fucked up thing like child porn or actually enjoying Xenoblade Chronicles, go ahead, have fun.

I will never understand people who deem something harmless that others enjoy "worthless" or a "waste of money/time".

Last Thursday a colleague gave me a weird look and asked "Seriously?" when I told her that I'd taken a day off for the PS5. I asked her if she'd ever taken a day off for something that she's passionate about. She went silent very quickly ::shrug:

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

N-E Café [053] Award us a Prize is now available from all good podcast providers.

Recorded on the 22nd of November, 2020.  

Episode 53 of the N-E Café has hosts Lee Davies, Gregory Moffett and Nick Lone discuss the week’s events in NintendoLand, talk about their recently played games, and discuss what The Game Awards have up their sleeve in relation to Nintendo this year.

This is episode 53 of the N-E Café Podcast, an N-Europe Podcast. Enjoy!

⦁ Intro Music: Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity - Overlooking Hyrule

⦁ Introductions: 0:00:28

⦁ Nintendo News: 0:03:39

⦁ Download Delights: 0:32:04

⦁ PS5 and Resistive Haptics: 0:38:11

⦁ Nick’s Picks: 0:49:58

⦁ Invisigun Reloaded: 0:57:19

⦁ The Game Awards: 1:04:10

⦁ Closing: 1:28:58

Can you guess what game the Transition Tunes come from?  If they ring a bell, get in touch with us, or if you have a Listener's Question you’d like us to discuss, contact us right here.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roughly 50 minutes in, all I have to say is something that's been bothering me for a while: unless I'm thinking of the wrong character, isn't the Resident Evil character called Hunk, and not Hank?

Anyway, complete shot in the dark for the Transition Tunes:

Spoiler

Monster Hunter Stories

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jonnas said:

Roughly 50 minutes in, all I have to say is something that's been bothering me for a while: unless I'm thinking of the wrong character, isn't the Resident Evil character called Hunk, and not Hank?

Ahh, yes, he most certainly is.  So, who in the hell is Hank?  His brother probably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg, if you do pick up a PSVR then I highly recommend you get Astrobot with it. It's easily one of the best games this generation has to offer and I think you'll love it given how you enjoy colourful platformers.

With you playing a lot more on your PS4 you should have a spinoff podcast called N-E Other Console. What? I think it's a clever name. :p 

Yeah, the Game Awards does highlight just how much of a rough year it's been for Nintendo in terms of game releases. As for the show itself, best to just catch up on the trailers/news after the show is over. It's been getting worse and worse each year.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

With you playing a lot more on your PS4 you should have a spinoff podcast called N-E Other Console. What? I think it's a clever name. :p 

happy-carlton-banks-excited-the-fresh-pr

I love it!

Yeah the Game Awards have been weak for a while. I definitely won't be watching, but still hope there are some good game announcements across the board. Really interested to see some more new next current gen stuff now. A glimpse of Bayo 3, BoTW 2 or Prime 4 would leave me satisfied as a far as the moderately-sized N is concerned. 

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m falling behind again but really enjoyed episode 52’s A General Disdain for Gaming. As a kid I did all sorts of things, read, sports, bike riding, various hobbies but still whenever I played games it was a waste of time or I was told I should do something more useful. I still don’t really get why anyone would really care too much about any hobby people choose to partake in.

Nowadays it’s something I luckily never have to deal with, pretty much everyone I’ve ever worked with plays games and genuinely loves them. When I tell people I managed to get a PS5 there is no comment about what a waste of $800 it is, just pure jealousy that I’m one of the few people here to have one. I think anyone that did question it as a hobby I would probably just dismiss them as a person and never think about it ever again.

Crazy that people care about other peoples hobbies like this, just let people enjoy whatever they want to.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still without laptop, so another short response:

-The Game Awards target audience isn't much for life sim, cozy games like Animal Crossing, so despite the sales, that's not the "popular" safe pick. That honour goes to TLoU and FFVIIR both, considering the target audience;

-You three put more thought into the meaning of the Family Award in this one episode than the GA comitee/organization ever did. This is another topic that I want to rant on, but dangit, I need proper keys;

-Like Lee, I'm also appalled at how non-chalant the prize announcements are made in this annual event. I'm hoping this year brings about a more flexible schedule and a better focus on the meat of the show, otherwise I don't see such a bright future for it (and I want it to do better, truly, but gosh, so much needs to improve...).

The Game Awards are significamt enough that we'll probably have more to talk about in the coming weeks. Still rooting for AC or Hades to take the main prize.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

content-4-36384-necafe53banner.jpg

N-E Café Episode 53 now available!

Now up on the main page. :D

- - - - -

Another really enjoyable episode, highlights for me were hearing about Greg's experience with the PS5's Resistive Haptics, seemingly the new 'HD Rumble' equivalent,, Nick's updates on games he's been playing, I was interested to hear about how you've been finding Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity, and I look forward to hearing more about it in future episodes, as it is a game I'm planning on playing soon... though maybe I should keep it sealed for now? :p Lee's impressions on Invisigun Reloaded were interesting too, a game I've never really looked into, and while it sounds like a unique concept, I think the art of the game is more interesting to me at this time, another example of a 16-Bit aesthetic title in-game, which has wildly different promotional art, which I decided to look toward for the banner this week. :)

The Game Awards discussion was fantastic as well, and while I don't think I'll bother watching it live this year, unless they've seriously rejigged the style of it, which I don't think they will have... because money, adverts etc, I will be on the look out for any Nintendo focused announcements. Indeed, last year I did put together a roundup article of the event, we'll see how the evening goes, I might do the same again this year if there are enough Nintendo related awards and announcements.  :peace:

Oh, and I'm here to claim the crown this week for the transition tunes... ;)

Spoiler

Even though I've still yet to play the game, because I decided to go for the physical version from Limited Run Games, AND the game is now not only out on other platforms, but it's half-price on the Nintendo Switch eShop, I believe that the game which all of the music this week is from is none other than...

Panzer Dragoon Remake

I'm extremely familiar with the music from the series in general, I'd heard that there would be a new score for this remake in addition to the original music, but I hadn't heard any of the new music from the remake, owing to not playing it yet, though I can definitely hear the main structure of the original music underneath the new arrangements, and it has just made me want to play the game all the more now, it should be finally arriving soon (after ordering it in January) so I'm looking forward to it. :D

Excellent choice of music Nick.

Looking forward to the next episode, and I'll be sure to update the main article with the YouTube embed, as soon as it's available. :smile:

Edited by S.C.G
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a question/topic for you guys to discuss. 

The release of the latest patch for the 3D Mario collection got me thinking...Outside of wanting to be part of the zeitgeist, is it worth buying games on day one anymore? The Mario collection got a substantial update that is a bit of a middle finger to those who already bought and finished the game and it's not the first time that day one owners have been burned. 

Also, it seems that games are adding more GaaS type elements to them, meaning a lot of the time what you buy on day one is a different experience to what you have by the end of all the patches/updates.

More and more I feel that people who buy on day one are nothing more than beta testers for developers/publishers. It's very rare now to buy a game that is actually a finished product out of the box. 

There is also the price to consider. The arrival of PS5 and the new Xbox has seen an increase in the price of software, something which has been slowly rising during this generation. Forking out £60-£70 for a possibly unfinished product is certainly a hard sell.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Here's a question/topic for you guys to discuss. 

Great question, H-o-T. 
Do any of our regular listeners have any thoughts on this? Would be interesting to have a number of perspectives before we discuss it on Sunday morning so we can include them in the discussion.

Edited by Nicktendo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

The release of the latest patch for the 3D Mario collection got me thinking...Outside of wanting to be part of the zeitgeist, is it worth buying games on day one anymore? The Mario collection got a substantial update that is a bit of a middle finger to those who already bought and finished the game and it's not the first time that day one owners have been burned. 

Also, it seems that games are adding more GaaS type elements to them, meaning a lot of the time what you buy on day one is a different experience to what you have by the end of all the patches/updates.

More and more I feel that people who buy on day one are nothing more than beta testers for developers/publishers. It's very rare now to buy a game that is actually a finished product out of the box. 

There is also the price to consider. The arrival of PS5 and the new Xbox has seen an increase in the price of software, something which has been slowly rising during this generation. Forking out £60-£70 for a possibly unfinished product is certainly a hard sell.

It's a very interesting topic indeed. To first start with the day one (or more realistically, day xx) patches. On the one hand I can understand that patches are necessary. Especially large 3D games are complicated, so I can imagine that there are issues popping up that may have slipped through QA testing. Or in the less pretty case, are known but are skipped due to time constraints and are planned to patch out later.

The other scenario is games adding post-launch content. I started playing Wargroove again yesterday and that is a game that received quite some additional content for free, expanding the base game. But the base game was there already, and the extra content was bonus. It had a couple of updates concerning balancing/difficulty, but it shows they listen to the feedback. You can ask the question if the balancing shouldn't have been right in the first place but QA testing can only be done by a certain amount of people so small balancing I can understand.

Another game that had difficulty issues was Enter The Gungeon. When it launched it was way too difficult according to the feedback it got, so in the end they patched the game to add a bunch of QoL/balancing to make the game easier. This is a more difficult case to judge, was it a misjudgment to launch the game as it was, or did they do a good job in fixing it to meet user standards? If I got this game day 1, did I play the "right" version of the game or was I better of waiting?

The example of Mario 3D All Stars is yet another case. Basically they are adding functionality to the game that could easily have been in in the first place. So either this was planned all along but was left out due to time constraints, or the backlash was big enough to make them consider afterwards. Like HoT says, if you played the game at launch and were bummed out by the lack of Gamecube controller support, getting it now after dishing out 50 pounds and playing the game can feel like a kick in the teeth. I know these issues are quite frequent, from relatively small fixes to complete overhauls (like No Man's Sky, who somehow managed to turn around all the criticism to being praised). But also a game like The Witcher III apparently ran like shit in the beginning. Or the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077, I wouldn't be surprised if it, despite all the postponing, will still be bug-filled. It baffles me that so many people are desperate to play it day one, pay 70 euros months in advance without even a good glimpse of how the game will play. Good marketing I guess. So yeah, these cases do feel like expensive beta-testing.

Speaking of, Steam even does it in a pretty obvious way where you can purchase games in alpha or beta stage, literally making you a paying tester. Anyway, it's why nowadays I find it hard to dish out 60 euros for a game, and I never pre-order anything unless it's something that is limited (like 3D All Stars). For the rest I don't think I ever pre-ordered anything. I always have to laugh a bit when people say "I forgot I bought this game but now a pre-order came through".

Sometimes it is nice to play a game day one and be part of the wave talking about it, experiencing it all at the same time. But the high price of new games (especially when you know they'll drop within the year), the potential post-launch fixing and me not having the need to talk about games as much as to have to play it day one makes me happy to wait.

And I can also post a long thing about the pressure on game creators who are forced to rush out games, about how games are structured as a service or how indies nowadays handle stuff better than big developers but I'll save that for a later day. :p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites