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So...stuff happened today. Government wants an alternative arrangement for Northern Ireland. Yeah, good luck with that...

I've watched the whole thing and my head just hurts. It all just seems rather pointless. 

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Have they giving any options on what these alternative arrangement suggestions are?
 

I can't see anything mentioned anywhere....have they basically voted to approve a plan that does not exist and think that is somehow a win?

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Mokong said:

Have they giving any options on what these alternative arrangement suggestions are?
 

I can't see anything mentioned anywhere....have they basically voted to approve a plan that does not exist and think that is somehow a win?

 

 

So you mean, like Brexit? :p

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So...stuff happened today. Government wants an alternative arrangement for Northern Ireland. Yeah, good luck with that...
I've watched the whole thing and my head just hurts. It all just seems rather pointless. 
Especially pointless because before they even voted, the EU said that they won't be allowed to change the withdrawal agreement. So it's all bollocks.

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Apparently May is going to go "back to Brussles" but I genuinely don't understand what they hope to get without even having an agreed alternative? If I was representing the European Union I wouldn't even bother turning up to the meeting, I'd send the temp just to laugh in their face. 

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Can't believe May spent two years negotiating a deal and then votes on an amendment to it - and begs her party to as well! 

She is holding on to the same deal she delayed in December. Nothing has changed and nothing will. The best deal is the one we've already got.

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“The best deal is the one we’ve got”... unless our red-lines are changed.

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It is hilarious that May is going over there to beg the EU to re-open the Withdrawal Agreement, which they have already said isn't going to happen. To make it funnier, I've heard that Spain and a couple of other countries want to revisit the Gibraltar and fishing quota issues if it does get reopened. May could come back with less than she went with!

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52 minutes ago, Kav said:

“The best deal is the one we’ve got”... unless our red-lines are changed.

They won't...

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The current UK prime minister has always been a very poor poker player and the EU knows this.

On a side note, any thoughts on the EU's articles 11 and 13 in regards to copyright at all?

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So...39 days to go. Situation still appears to be very murky and a clear plan has yet to be seen.

Hard Brexit, here we come?

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And with a fractured opposition no less. 7 Labour MPs have left the party and they're urging more to do so because as someone put it, it's a party that's been taken over by the left. Last I checked, Corbin was very much centre-right ::shrug:

I've stopped putting the news on in the morning because it's just horrendous listening to this train wreck unfolding. It's mind boggling that the group of people in charge can't even put forward a bloody plan that can garner at least any semblance of a majority vote. Very few of them seem to have any idea what they're doing and now they're blindly pushing forward because of a referendum that was built up upon lies (admittedly on both sides).

Up here in Scotland, I've just seen stronger want for independence, not something I want for Scotland with the current crop of politicians as they themselves don't have a clue as to how to pull that off. But I think that's the way it'll go, pulling the union apart and leaving every one with a mess to clean up after the members of the government resign when it all collapses.

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Massive respect to those seven MPs - Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey - who have quit the Labour Party.  I thought Remainers would be really pleased.  Sure, they may not succeed, but they are putting their country first in accordance with what they believe in.

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So the 7 MPs resigned from Labour this morning to set up The Independent Group cited “institutional racism” as one of the main reasons.

4hrs later Angela Smith, refers to the BAME community as black or a “funny” tinge.
Another hour and a half later she’s forced to apologise for her racist remarks.

This follows Chuka Umuna having referred to the working class as “trash” and Gavin Shuker having reportedly opposed gay marriage.

Which Party has the problem with bigoted views?! 🤔

Another point to make on this new Party is that they’ve listed themselves as a private company, so it isn't subject to Electoral Law rules requiring them to declare financial backers!

Shady fuckers!!!

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13 minutes ago, Kav said:

So the 7 MPs resigned from Labour this morning to set up The Independent Group cited “institutional racism” as one of the main reasons.

4hrs later Angela Smith, refers to the BAME community as black or a “funny” tinge.
Another hour and a half later she’s forced to apologise for her racist remarks.

This follows Chuka Umuna having referred to the working class as “trash” and Gavin Shuker having reportedly opposed gay marriage.

Which Party has the problem with bigoted views?! 🤔

I imagine it's a case of some of those MP's wanting to get well away from Labour in the midst of the anti-Semitism debacle because they fear that they'll get found out themselves for racism.

In other words, they're abandoning ship so that they save themselves.

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The Independent Group’s website is hosted in Panama, the tax haven.

It gets worse for TIG...

They’ve said they’d speak to the MPs about these allegations but made no comment to whether they’d listen to the victims.

Glad they’re out of Labour!

Edited by Kav
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On 2/18/2019 at 2:29 PM, Grazza said:

Massive respect to those seven MPs - Chuka Umunna, Luciana Berger, Chris Leslie, Angela Smith, Mike Gapes, Gavin Shuker and Ann Coffey - who have quit the Labour Party.  I thought Remainers would be really pleased.  Sure, they may not succeed, but they are putting their country first in accordance with what they believe in.

I'm not too sure what to think of all of this including the news today that three Conservative MP's have defected over to the this new party. This feels a bit like the formation of the SDP (I'm old enough to remember this) except I doubt this will last as long or be remembered so well. Politicians should always put their constituencies first and I don't see this fully here. They are doing what they think is right and of course their constituents will either agree or disagree with them in the ballot box should any by-elections come up.

Still feels a bit like a sideshow to me...

Edited by sumo73

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Between those comments yesterday and today saying they wouldn't vote against the government if another no confidence vote was called it does seem rather clear they know they wouldn't win another election.

 

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...they’re the gift that keeps on giving, The Independent Group.

”Change Politics” is their slogan...

...and yet now, reportedly, they have broken the law. How are they suggesting this change?!

 

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Not really sure what to think of this Independent Group at all. Time will tell if other members of Labour and the Conservatives leave to join them. But, at the moment, it just seems like an idea that has been said out loud without really having any thought into what the idea itself actually really is or how it's going to work. A bit like Brexit.

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Jeremy Hunt's Slovenia gaffe

Quote

Combining Boris Johnson-like grasp of detail with the British tradition of making disastrous decisions over Balkan affairs, foreign secretary Jeremy Hunt has marked his first official visit to Slovenia by insulting the country as a former “vassal state” of the Soviet Union.

It was actually part of Yugoslavia, the communist country which under Josip Tito jealously guarded its independence from the USSR – to the point of hosting the conference where the Non-Aligned Movement was created in 1961.

But seemingly oblivious to this, Mr Hunt stood beside Slovenian foreign minister Miro Cerar and humbly declared himself “really happy to be here”, before – perhaps less humbly – telling his Slovenian hosts: “As a fellow European country, the UK is very proud of the transformation there has been in Slovenia, a really remarkable transition from a Soviet vassal state to modern European democracy.”

I love the response:

Quote

In a swiftly shared report, Milan Brglez, former president of the Slovenian parliament, was quoted as saying: “The British foreign minister comes to Slovenia asking us for a favour(to discuss with the foreign minister how to avoid a no-deal Brexit) while arrogantly insulting us. We were never a 'vassal state of the Soviet Union'."

Eeeek. 

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Just a note to mention my concern over food standards in relation to a US/UK trade deal.  It seems people's worse suspicions have come true, in that Trump/America seeks to trample all over our regulations:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/01/us-seeks-greater-access-to-uk-food-markets-after-brexit-trade-deal

 

This is one reason I favour Norway Plus, but Remain is certainly better than all other options when it comes to this.  I ask that anyone who shares my concern considers signing the official petition:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239898

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2 hours ago, Grazza said:

This is one reason I favour Norway Plus, but Remain is certainly better than all other options when it comes to this.  I ask that anyone who shares my concern considers signing the official petition:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/239898

Done-ion Rings!

But seriously? Trump only cares about what America would get out of a deal with us? What an unprecedented surprise!

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tbh I think if food is VERY clearly labelled I don't see a huge problem with it. if US meat HAS to be labelled clearly as coming from the US, and cannot claim not to be bleach chicken without providing very rigorous evidence, let them do it. We already have chlorine around us plenty so it's a choice. And I mean, here in europe we've got another meat scandal with rotten and diseased meat (fit only for dog food.. if even that) having been sold in butchers. Not sure if you heard about that in the UK, but basically even if the EU has procedures, that doesn't mean they are followed correctly by every European business.  .
Fed up with brexit now, I think an extension is looking likely but right now I just want it over and done with. It's like the gilets jaune over in France, it's so boring already!

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So with all the uncertainty what do people think might well happen as of next week and voting on the Deal, No Deal & extending Article 50?

I can honestly see something along the lines of:

1: Deal gets rejected again at the meaningful vote.

2: MPs reject No Deal at the following vote.

3: MPs reject extension to Article 50.

4: Left with no other option, May withdraws A50 (and possibly resigns). 

5: It then goes back to another Referendum (and perhaps even a General Election).

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