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Nintendo Switch Online: NES

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16 hours ago, Sheikah said:

The idea that making VC games available would hurt sales of their new games is not even worth considering. By the same reckoning Nintendo would not allow indie titles on their machine as people might buy them instead of their games.

What are you on about? I'm talking about any new software on the Switch, first party, third party, indie. I never said they were against making older games available, I'm saying one reason could be that it's not a priority for them and they'd prefer to promote and push new software, especially when there's tons of it coming out. They said themselves they released the NES classic in the gap between the Wii U and the Switch and it was timed purposefully for the software drought.

And don't be your usual condescending self by saying an argument "isn't worth considering", thanks.

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What are you on about? I'm talking about any new software on the Switch, first party, third party, indie. I never said they were against making older games available, I'm saying one reason could be that it's not a priority for them and they'd prefer to promote and push new software, especially when there's tons of it coming out. They said themselves they released the NES classic in the gap between the Wii U and the Switch and it was timed purposefully for the software drought.
And don't be your usual condescending self by saying an argument "isn't worth considering", thanks.


Ronnie I just want to point out that you responded saying "What are you on about" which is instantly dismissive and disrespectful, so please don't try to play the victim card here.

They are already putting time and effort into VC but for NES, games most people don't want. So the idea that they are not interested into putting time and effort in favour of other things doesn't make much sense. How much time and effort should VC need anyway? They have ported these VC titles loads of times before. They should be masters.

Also - they stand to make 100% of the profit of first party VC sales, versus just a cut from third party new games, so there really isn't any reason they should be prioritising other companies releases over their own VC games. Timing releases to cover software droughts is different to when you have a reasonably healthy console.
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39 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Ronnie I just want to point out that you responded saying "What are you on about" which is instantly dismissive and disrespectful, so please don't try to play the victim card here.

They are already putting time and effort into VC but for NES, games most people don't want. So the idea that they are not interested into putting time and effort in favour of other things doesn't make much sense. How much time and effort should VC need anyway? They have ported these VC titles loads of times before. They should be masters.

Also - they stand to make 100% of the profit of first party VC sales, versus just a cut from third party new games, so there really isn't any reason they should be prioritising other companies releases over their own VC games. Timing releases to cover software droughts is different to when you have a reasonably healthy console.

When you keep shifting the goalposts to fit your own arguments, like you always do, and like you did in your second paragraph, then dismiss any argument that doesn't line up with yours as "not worth considering" then expect a bit of push back.

What does time and effort have to do with anything? My suggestion has always been about mindshare and knowing what to push to consumers, when. And by the way, that's all it's ever been, a suggestion. @markderoos asked what possible reason Nintendo could have for not giving us Virtual Console. I came up with one potential answer. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just a potential reason. When you have multiple big games coming out every single month for their hugely popular console that's flying off shelves, why would they try and shove old games into our lap? It's just a thought, that's all.

As an aside, I very clearly remember the vast majority of this board were telling Nintendo to release Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild on the same (launch) day of the Switch a few years back. "More games = better" was the reasoning. I think we can all agree now with hindsight that spacing games out was obviously the right way of doing things. Showering consumers with new and old at the same time isn't always the best way to go about things.

Edited by Ronnie

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When you keep shifting the goalposts to fit your own arguments, like you always do, and like you did in your second paragraph, then dismiss any argument that doesn't line up with yours as "not worth considering" then expect a bit of push back.

What does time and effort have to do with anything? My suggestion has always been about mindshare and knowing what to push to consumers, when. And by the way, that's all it's ever been, a suggestion. [mention=4192]markderoos[/mention] asked what possible reason Nintendo could have for not giving us Virtual Console. I came up with one potential answer. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just a potential reason. When you have multiple big games coming out every single month for their hugely popular console that's flying off shelves, why would they try and shove old games into our lap? It's just a thought, that's all.

As an aside, I very clearly remember the vast majority of this board were telling Nintendo to release Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild on the same (launch) day of the Switch a few years back. "More games = better" was the reasoning. I think we can all agree now with hindsight that spacing games out was obviously the right way of doing things. Showering consumers with new and old at the same time isn't always the best way to go about things.

 

Ronnie, I plainly stated that the specific angle you were going for wasn’t worth considering because it didn’t make sense, not because it was just you saying it.

 

Nintendo and other console manufacturers have released VC games alongside other titles in the past, so the idea that it is suddenly causing an issue with mindshare (when they are already releasing NES games anyway) doesn’t make any sense.

 

Your examples in favour of your argument are also tenuous. There is a world of difference between releasing Mario Odyssey and Zelda on the same day as releasing VC titles and anything else. For one, VC titles are generally cheap and people can afford them and other games at the same time. A lot of VC titles are also on the shorter side or can be played more easily in bursts/levels, owing to the way games use to be, so people can pick them up and still have time for other titles.

 

When it comes down to it though, at its peak the Wii was releasing and selling a butt loads of games and VC titles at the same time. If there was a mindshare issue I don’t see that this would have happened. I also think you are vastly overestimating the Switch. It’s certainly popular but it misses out on a lot of big multiplatform games. It has indie titles to make up for this but first party VC should also be high on the priority list as it’s 100% profit for them, and they’ve done this porting so many times now.

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16 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I plainly stated that the specific angle you were going for wasn’t worth considering because it didn’t make sense, not because it was just you saying it.

It wasn't worth considering, to you.

17 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Nintendo and other console manufacturers have released VC games alongside other titles in the past

I've already told you that other consoles didn't have the same volume of high profile releases (be it first party, third party, or indie) of the Switch, and needed titles to pad the release schedule out. The Switch isn't lacking games at the moment.

18 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

There is a world of difference between releasing Mario Odyssey and Zelda on the same day as releasing VC titles and anything else.

Doesn't matter how short VC games are or aren't, the point is they take mindshare and marketing away from new releases. The Switch is selling insane numbers of software, truly incredible figures, there's no need to release old games when their new games are selling like crazy.

22 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

When it comes down to it though, at its peak the Wii was releasing and selling a butt loads of games

Come on, take the shovelware out of the equation and the Wii suffered from huge sofware droughts.

23 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I also think you are vastly overestimating the Switch. It’s certainly popular but it misses out on a lot of big multiplatform games.

And it makes up for that with six first party releases in the second half of 2019.

25 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

VC should also be high on the priority list as it’s 100% profit for them

Unless of course little Timmy decides to buy Ocarina of Time for £10 instead of spending £50 on Fire Emblem or Astral Chain..

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5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I've already told you that other consoles didn't have the same volume of high profile releases (be it first party, third party, or indie) of the Switch, and needed titles to pad the release schedule out. The Switch isn't lacking games at the moment.

That's just not true, PS4 has a higher content output (particularly big multiplatform games) yet puts out PS2 ports.

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Doesn't matter how short VC games are or aren't, the point is they take mindshare and marketing away from new releases.

If you're going to say it as matter of fact then please provide some evidence. The way I see it, Nintendo have even used VC as marketing for new games (see Pokémon Gold/Silver).

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The Switch is selling insane numbers of software, truly incredible figures, there's no need to release old games when their new games are selling like crazy.

Sure there is. More money.

And if Switch continues to sell well, when will there ever be a point of releasing VC? Then before you know it they're onto Switch 2 and they've missed out on however many years they they could have been selling VC titles for.

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Come on, take the shovelware out of the equation and the Wii suffered from huge sofware droughts.

Wii did when Nintendo stopped supporting it properly, about two thirds of the way into its life. Which could well happen to Switch, given most of its big first party games have already come out.

And VC was already out before things started going south for Wii, back when it was very successful and getting a lot of support.

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And it makes up for that with six first party releases in the second half of 2019.

Doesn't matter what stats you present, you and I both know that there's only so much Nintendo can do themselves long term and Switch misses out on a lot of big games. VC is an easy way to make up for the sales it's not getting - VC titles also are pitched well at the indie crowd which Switch is fostering. Heck, a lot of indie titles even try to recreate the feeling of said SNES games. It's the perfect fit.

Just look at the top 5 games now in the charts; only one is a game available on Switch (FIFA), it's not a first party game, and you can bet the lion's share of sales won't be on Switch.

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Unless of course little Timmy decides to buy Ocarina of Time for £10 instead of spending £50 on Fire Emblem or Astral Chain..

Maybe little Timmy buys both? Maybe little Timmy buys £60 worth of VC titles? Without any evidence that VC causes people to shun new titles, this is a meaningless discussion. You can say "I'm just presenting a possibility" all you like, but with nothing to support it I'm calling that Nintendo are just mismanaging the situation. Like how they rushed out the Switch with a barebones UI and a delayed online subscription service, I feel it's much more likely that they haven't planned this out properly. 

Edited by Sheikah
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8 hours ago, Sheikah said:

That's just not true, PS4 has a higher content output (particularly big multiplatform games) yet puts out PS2 ports.

Are you purposefully being obtuse, that's the third time you've misread what I wrote. We were talking about previous Nintendo consoles. Not Playstation.

8 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Sure there is. More money.

A typically simplistic way of looking at things, that misses the point. Releasing say, 1000 extra games a week doesn't = more money. It doesn't work like that.

8 hours ago, Sheikah said:

when will there ever be a point of releasing VC?

Maybe in the quieter Q2/Q3 of 2020, who knows what their release schedule is like after Animal Crossing.

8 hours ago, Sheikah said:

I feel it's much more likely that they haven't planned this out properly. 

That's a possibility too, sure, but after three Virtual Consoles on their previous platforms, it's unlikely.

8 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Maybe little Timmy buys both?

Some might, some won't, some will buy a cheap VC game and play it for 30 hours instead of buying Astral Chain.

Edited by Ronnie

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FCC filing for a Switch SNES controller has surfaced so it looks like Super Nintendo games will finally be added to the service sometime soon!

EDIT:

Gah, @Ike beat me to it by like a second! 

I saw someone on Nintendo Life theorise that we probably won't get Link to the Past at launch considering Link's Awakening is coming out in just over a month.

Edited by killthenet

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Yeah, no prizes for guessing that this’ll come out on the 1 year anniversary of NSO’s launch (just in time to entice people to re-sub for the year).

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That's good, I wonder if they'll just add it to the current roster of games or if it'll be a tiered service (pay slightly more if you want SNES games). Hopefully the former.

 

I also wonder what the chances are of licensed titles ever coming to the service. Like turtles in time or batman returns.

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If there's the usual September Direct it could be they talk about it there. I'd be surprised if they didn't just throw SNES in with the current price, maybe N64 and over they'll introduce tiers.

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*Looks up from playing Final Fantasy III on my SNES Mini*

Sorry, what?

Well, if it does happen, I suppose I'll celebrate with an online 2-player, sarcastic clap filled Star Road run on Mario World (Because Mario World is totally a launch title for it, don't kid yourselves).

Who's in?

Edited by Glen-i
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I'm all for sarcastic clapping, and haven't played Mario World and the star road in ages so I guess there would be plenty of this: QHQsLit.gif

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It had better not have those button prompts onscreen at all times like the NES games do.  Gimme a plain black background or GTFO Nintendo!

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23 hours ago, Dcubed said:

It had better not have those button prompts onscreen at all times like the NES games do.  Gimme a plain black background or GTFO Nintendo!

Weird to think that you of all people have a Super Game Boy.

Anyway, you already know how this is gonna turn out. Why set yourself up for disappointment?

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It looks like the app will be renamed NES and Super NES - Nintendo Switch Online, so I think we can just keep this topic and rename it.

Anyway, SNES Online is here (almost!). Put September 2020 already in your agenda for N64 Online.

The first 20 games available are:

  • Brawl Brothers
  • Demon's Crest
  • Joe & Mac 2: Lost in the Tropics
  • Kirby's Dream Land 3
  • Star Fox
  • Super E.D.F. Earth Defense Force
  • Super Mario Kart
  • Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
  • Super Puyo Puyo 2
  • Super Tennis
  • Breath of Fire
  • F-Zero
  • Kirby's Dream Course
  • Pilotwings
  • Stunt Race FX
  • Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
  • Super Mario World
  • Super Metroid
  • Super Soccer
  • The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past

Additionally, members can purchase a wireless SNES controller which charges through USB-C for €29,99/£26,99, available "soon".

Pretty happy with that list. Some classics which I played through and through back in the days, but also a couple of games I never touched. I'm up for a sarcastic-clap SNES-a-thon!

QHQsLit.gif

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Very happy to see Pilotwings, how that game wasn’t on the SNES mini I’ll never know. :indeed: Been years since I played it though (last time I dug up my SNES and JP import copy) so looking forward to revisiting that, and in English this time. :grin: 

Stunt Race FX is a nice surprise. :cool: And yeah, the more devices I have Super Mario Kart on, the better. :) 

I’m hoping we’ll eventually see some previously Japan exclusive titles make their way to the library, specifically from the Mystical Ninja series. I feel that “Goemon” in Smash could be the start of a great Mystical Ninja comeback! :hehe: 

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Amazing starting lineup; some real surprise inclusions like Stunt Race FX, Demon's Crest and Super Tennis!

 

Also @RedShell finally gets Super Mario Kart online at long last ;) 

 

Though it looks like they STILL haven't added an option to get rid of that bloody text on the bottom of the screen! Seriously!? Come on!!!

 

I still wish we could get a proper VC service though...

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Amazing list of games, some all time classics/best games ever made in there.

I cheered when I spotted Pilotwings. One of my favourite ever games, I was constantly firing it up on Wii U, so much fun, such a great vibe.

Nice to see them keep the same price, the service gets even more worth the cost.

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That's a great list to launch the SNES service on the Switch.  So, so many great games to choose from.

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2 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Amazing starting lineup; some real surprise inclusions like Stunt Race FX, Demon's Crest and Super Tennis!

Hopefully that trend continues. I'd love for titles like UN Squadron and the Soul Blazer trilogy to hit the service. Unirally/Uniracer would be a dream come true but given the legal issues with it I doubt that will ever happen. Shame because I adored that game. :( 

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