PlayStation Classic Announced (3rd Dec 2018)

[Glen-i]

I want to see this UI. I would like to see it without trying to look through a 9 minute video on my phone.

EDIT: Wait, so they're using an open-sourced emulator?

If so, definitely a cheap cash grab.

Also doesn't have that awesome rewind feature the SNES Mini has. I love saving moments with that.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Glen-i

[Hero-of-Time]

48 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Good point about their hands being tied but I kind of get the feeling Sony have been coasting this whole gen. They’ve got their games and huge sales, they don’t have to do much else.

Compare to Xbox’s work this gen with backwards compatibility, Game Pass, the Elite controller, cross play with Nintendo, Design Lab, their mid-gen hardware update not being a bit pointless etc. Sony have just sat back and watched the money roll in, same thing here, barebones cash grab.

It's no different from when any of the others were market leader. Microsoft started coasting along as soon as they wrapped up the US during the last gen. They became arrogant and completely fell apart during the end of the gen and start of this one.

Nintendo were very arrogant and controlling during the NES and SNES eras, which is why so many 3rd parties jumped ship at the first opportunity. This problem is still biting them in the backside to this day. Then there was the whole Wii U fiasco and think people would buy it just because it had Wii in the name.

Every single one of the big 3 ( Sega as well back in the day ) gets cocky and starts to coast along once they have a large enough userbase. It's exactly why it's good to have competition.

Last generation Microsoft forced Sony to wake up and they done a fantastic job in turning the PS3 around to the point where it pretty much caught up to the 360 in sales. It's the other way around this generation in that Microsoft is having to respond due to Sony outselling them by a crazy amount but Microsoft don't have a lot of pull outside of the US to catch up.

I think Gamepass is a fantastic addition to the Xbox but, as seen in the PS4 thread, even Sony's own service is bizarrely beating it. 

While I get where you are coming from, Sony have cultivated a very loyal fanbase over the past 4 console generations so they must be doing something right to keep people coming back. They do a fantastic job of appealing to the masses and making such deals for getting advertising rights for FIFA and exclusive content and advertising rights for things like Red Dead and Call of Duty cannot be underestimated. 

[Sheikah]

 

4 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Good point about their hands being tied but I kind of get the feeling Sony have been coasting this whole gen. They’ve got their games and huge sales, they don’t have to do much else. Compare to Xbox’s work this gen with backwards compatibility, Game Pass, the Elite controller, cross play with Nintendo, Design Lab, their mid-gen hardware update not being a bit pointless etc. Sony have just sat back and watched the money roll in, same thing here, barebones cash grab.  

 

I don't think I could disagree more in the sense that all you stuff is secondary to great exclusive games, which PS4 has in spades while X1 is by comparison severely lacking. Rather than just sitting back, Sony have clearly put effort into cultivating great first party studios and giving them everything they need to succeed, as well as getting third party exclusives.

 

Look at games like God of War and Bloodborne; Microsoft haven't produced a shred that even comes close. Literally could not disagree more about sitting back!

Edited November 8, 2018 by Sheikah

[Hero-of-Time]

4 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think I could disagree more in the sense that all you stuff is secondary to great exclusive games, which PS4 has in spades while X1 is by comparison severely lacking. Rather than just sitting back, Sony have clearly put effort into cultivating great first party studios and giving them everything they need to succeed, as well as getting third party exclusives.

The 3rd party exclusives is a good point. Having a strong selection of Japanese made games has helped give the lineup more diversity. The X1 is very western heavy and has missed out on such things like Yakuza, Digimon, Kingdom Hearts collection, Ni-oh and various Tales games, to name but a few. It's not until recently that they have started to see some of these games appear on the platform. 

[Ronnie]

14 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

 

 

I don't think I could disagree more in the sense that all you stuff is secondary to great exclusive games, which PS4 has in spades while X1 is by comparison severely lacking. Rather than just sitting back, Sony have clearly put effort into cultivating great first party studios and giving them everything they need to succeed, as well as getting third party exclusives.

 

Look at games like God of War and Bloodborne; Microsoft haven't produced a shred that even comes close. Literally could not disagree more about sitting back!

Of course Playstation has all the best exclusives between the two of them, I meant things outisde of their software output, I even said as much. Microsoft are doing great work outside of their software (and are taking steps to correct that too) because they have to, Sony are in a comfortable position so they're coasting this gen.

@Hero-of-Time your point about one of the big three immediately following a succesful gen with a downfall is absolutely true and seems to happen a lot. Seems like Sony have started early though.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Ronnie

[Hero-of-Time]

3 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

 

@Hero-of-Time your point about one of the big three immediately following a succesful gen with a downfall is absolutely true and seems to happen a lot. Seems like Sony have started early though.

It depends how you look at it. Look at the sales and general attitude towards the console. They are both very positive and it has a line up of games that many are looking forward to. It continues to be a success and I imagine it will see massive sales in the US come Black Friday if the deals leaked are anything to go by.

If you look at it from a feature stand point then Sony have been lacking in this regard but these are things they clearly don't seem important to a large majority of their customer base. Sure, gaming forums will be very vocal about things like backwards compatability but do the masses really care? Probably not. We live in a vacuum on places like here and most of console sales come from a completely different audience. Just look at the Wii.

Most companies will coast on by if they can. I mean, just look at the Switch this year. For a lot of people, myself included, Nintendo dropped the ball with software, don't have standard apps on the console yet and their online is a mess. The Switch is selling well so there's no need for them to step up their game with these things. Had it not been selling then I would imagine Nintendo would be doing everything they could to make it a more appealing product, just like Microsoft is having to do now or when Nintendo had to sort out the 3DS soon after launch.

I'm not saying coasting is right but they all do it. Not that I think Sony is really coasting with the PS4, given the fantastic software they've put out in recent years and amazing effort they put into getting all their ducks in a row. However, when it comes to this product, they certainly are putting the minimum effort into it. That I think we can agree on.

[Sheikah]

Well you could just as easily argue that Microsoft are focusing on all the wrong things rather than it being a case of Sony sitting back. Given Microsoft are behind on quality exclusives you'd think they would spend more effort on that front rather than working on "nice to have" but altogether completely unnecessary features like BC.

[Ronnie]

7 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Well you could just as easily argue that Microsoft are focusing on all the wrong things rather than it being a case of Sony sitting back. Given Microsoft are behind on quality exclusives you'd think they would spend more effort on that front rather than working on "nice to have" but altogether completely unnecessary features like BC.

They seem to be doing just that with all the studios they’ve bought recently. 

[Hero-of-Time]

6 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

They seem to be doing just that with all the studios they’ve bought recently. 

Indeed. It will be interesting to see if this pays off in the next generation. It didn't start well with the purchase of the We Happy Few developers but that was probably too far gone to do anything about.

It still baffles me just how under utilized Rare are. They have a great set IPs that could be used or farmed out but Microsoft, for some bizarre reason, seem happy to just sit on them. Bring back Viva Piñata! 

[Dcubed]

Why on earth are you guys arguing about Microsoft vs Sony? That has nothing to do with the Playstation Mini!

 

Anyway, it's a real shame that they seem that, in the process of ripping off Nintendo's mini consoles, they forgot to ripoff the most important thing... quality emulation.

 

The use of a homebrew emulator (PCSX ReARMed) in a high profile Sony product like this is shameful.  Absolutely shameful.  Its even more shocking when you consider the fact that Sony already have an internal PS1 emulator used on the PS3, PSP and Vita.  They gave so little a toss about this product that they couldn't even be bothered to port their own emulator over; it even runs on ARM already on Vita!

 

And then the use of crappy 50hz versions of games on top of that!? Come on Sony!

 

No filtering options at all?! Noticable input lag!? No way to turn off the crappy blur filter they have on the screen? FFS! I bet the games are riddled with graphical and sound glitches too...

 

This is always the problem with these mini consoles that everyone (except Nintendo) always keep making.  The reason why the Nintendo Mini consoles were so successful, while all other plug n' play consoles have failed, is because they nailed the emulation! Nintendo put out quality products, while everyone else put out trash!

 

PS1 deserved better than this.  The game selection here was even pretty good! (considering the rights hell that plagues many of the most popular PS1 games), but of course, of course, they have to fall at the last hurdle and fail to provide quality emulation.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

I knew you'd be happy with the 50hz versions of the games, @Dcubed.  

[Glen-i]

13 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I knew you'd be happy with the 50hz versions of the games, @Dcubed.  

It was only a matter of time, really. I was looking forward to him making a rare appearance on the "Other consoles" thread.

Yes, I'm well aware that I show up even less, shut up!

[Hero-of-Time]

I'm still back and forth as to whether to keep my preorder or not. If I do cancel it I imagine someone would probably pick me one up as a Christmas present anyway.

Last night I decided to knock up a list of games that I would have liked to have seen on the console and then headed over to ebay to see how much it would cost to sort out my own PS Classic library. A lot of PSOne games are surprisingly cheap! You can get the likes of Tomb Raider 2, Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2, Smackdown 2 and Gran Turismo 2 for around £5-£7. I'm honestly quite tempted to just put my PS Classic money towards building my own library.  

[Sheikah]

It looks really bad value to me. Mind you, all of these mini consoles seem pretty bad value. Usually there's not more than a few games I'd want to play, and if I did I'd rather play them on Vita or something.

[bob]

If you take away the nostalgia value, I genuinely don't see the appeal.

I never played the NES, SNES or PS1, and all these consoles seem like a rip-off to me.

However, when they everyday make N64 and Gamecube versions, I'll probably be throwing my money away, the same as everyone else.

[Ronnie]

50hz games confirmed, one blunder after another...

 

[Hero-of-Time]

I love the hyperbole in that tweet. I must have been playing a different PAL version of Tekken 3 when I was younger because mine copy was very much playable.

To this day I still don't understand the fascination with 60hz, especially when it's from gamers over here in Europe who more often than not actually grew up playing the 50hz versions without any complaints. However, I can see why US gamers aren't happy with it.

The games chosen for this product is a far bigger issue, IMO.

[Dcubed]

58 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

The games chosen for this product is a far bigger issue, IMO.

What games would you have swapped out and added in? (Bearing in mind the issue of licensing, so games like Gran Turismo, Wipeout and the Tony Hawks series - as much as would've loved to have seen the later - were never viable options)

 

Sticking to the 20 game limit (and the one entry per-series limit); I might have swapped out Rainbow Six, Cool Boarders and Destruction Derby for Symphony of the Night (Konami's stupidity potentially being a blocking factor here), Ape Escape (That would necessitate changing the controller to a Dual Shock replica; which they really should've done to begin with) and Tomb Raider 1.  I might have also swapped out Revelations: Persona for Grandia and RE: Director's Cut for Resident Evil 2; but with both games having upcoming Remasters/Remakes? I'm not sure if either Gung Ho or Capcom would've actually have played ball... Likewise I would've loved to see more Konami titles like Silent Hill and Suikoden; but considering how much Konami have gone completely off the rails? It's a miracle that we even got the original MGS to be honest!

 

Honestly though? I actually think the game selection is pretty good really.  It's a nice mix of popular titles, some lesser known and oddball ones and I think it reflects the variety of the PS1's library quite nicely.  You do have to consider licensing issues here and the fact that a lot of publishers would not necessarily want to end up having the PS Mini competing with their own remakes/remasters of PS1 games (So that would be a problem for games like Resident Evil 2, Grandia, Medievil, PaRappa The Rapper, the Crash Trilogy, the Spyro Trilogy and others).

Edited November 27, 2018 by Dcubed

[Julius]

44 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

I might have swapped out...for Symphony of the Night (Konami's stupidity potentially being a blocking factor here)...but considering how much Konami have gone completely off the rails? It's a miracle that we even got the original MGS to be honest!

...

[Third parties don’t want to be] competing with their own remakes/remasters of PS1 games (So that would be a problem for games like Resident Evil 2, Grandia, Medievil, PaRappa The Rapper, the Crash Trilogy, the Spyro Trilogy and others).

I mean, to be fair, Symphony of the Night was released alongside Rondo of Blood as part of Castlevania Requiem just last month on PS4, so it should be part of your list of remakes/remasters, but I know what you were getting at  

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Julius

[Hero-of-Time]

46 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

What games would you have swapped out and added in? (Bearing in mind the issue of licensing, so games like Gran Turismo, Wipeout and the Tony Hawks series - as much as would've loved to have seen the later - were never viable options)

I would take out...

• Cool Borders 2
• Rainbow Six
• Rayman
• Mr Driller
• Intelligent Cube
• Super Puzzle Fighter II
• Resident Evil 

Outside of Resident Evil none of these games are really synonymous with the original Playstation. I would replace those with games like...

• Crash Team Racing 
• Silent Hill
• Tomb Raider 2
• Resident Evil 2
• Dino Crisis 1 or 2
• Parasite Eve
• Soul Reaver

It's baffling that Japan gets Parasite Eve yet the Western version of the console doesn't. This could have been a big selling point for European gamers who were originally denied the game.

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Hero-of-Time

[Julius]

20 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's baffling that Japan gets Parasite Eve yet the Western version of the console doesn't. This could have been a big selling point for European gamers who were originally denied the game.

Square Enix trademarked “Parasite Eve” in Europe just last week, as it happens, so we could see it released over here sooner rather than later, be it as a remastered port or a remake. 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Julius

[Shorty]

Super Puzzle Fighter II  was a big deal with me and my PS1 owning friends!

[Dcubed]

49 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I would take out...

• Cool Borders 2
• Rainbow Six
• Rayman
• Mr Driller
• Intelligent Cube
• Super Puzzle Fighter II
• Resident Evil 

Outside of Resident Evil none of these games are really synonymous with the original Playstation. I would replace those with games like...

• Crash Team Racing 
• Silent Hill
• Tomb Raider 2
• Resident Evil 2
• Dino Crisis 1 or 2
• Parasite Eve
• Soul Reaver

It's baffling that Japan gets Parasite Eve yet the Western version of the console doesn't. This could have been a big selling point for European gamers who were originally denied the game.

 

 

 

Those are good shouts, but I don't think that we would've been able to get Resident Evil 2 (due to the upcoming remake), Silent Hill (Due to Konami wanting to bury the series and the outbreak of general insanity that they're currently going through) or Parasite Eve (due to Square Enix's general over-protectiveness of their Japanese-side IP here in the west).  The rest are quite possible though!

 

I don't necessarily agree with Rayman being removed though.  It was one of the best selling games on the PS1, especially in Europe (but even in the US it was one of the system's best selling titles), and it's definitely a game that people associate the PS1 with.  It is also the only platformer available for the Playstation Mini outside of Jumping Flash (which is a very different kind of game) and so, it fills a genre hole in the selection very nicely (and representation of the PS1's variety of genres is an important factor to consider when coming up with a list of titles).

Edited November 27, 2018 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

Rayman is a weird one for me. I know it sold well but I didn't know a single person who owned it  legitimately. Of the few who did actually own it that was only due to them having their consoles chipped and just owning whatever games they could get their hands on.

Another game that should have been on the consoles is one of the Tenchu games.

 

[Ike]

They are using the PAL versions in the American release as well, I though it was just the European version?