Tim B

Mario Tennis Aces

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14 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Have you played the GC and 3DS Mario Tennis games? Power shots being part of the single player is nothing new.

It's not just Zone Shots though. It's about trying to force your opponent to waste their energy.

If you use a Zone Shot and then the opponent reaches it with little to no problem, then you've wasted energy and you're vulnerable to a counter attack.

Building up energy is not something that just happens over time. It's a reward for skillful play. Successfully pulling off Max Charge Shots, Early Trick Shots and Nice Serves all give you energy.

You can't just Whack out a Zone Shot and expect to come off on top. You pile on the pressure, make the opponent waste their energy and hit them when they don't have the energy to Zone Speed back.

I can understand being upset that it's basically a Fighting Game disguised as a tennis game. But the Tennis Game is still there if you want to play it. (Even if it's mostly multiplayer, but if you didn't get this for some Multiplayer matches, then I don't know what to say)

Yeah I have played every Mario Tennis game.

The 3DS is actually one of my favourites although nothing with top the N64. 

Also, I'm not talking about Star or Power Shots. It's these stupid new zone shots. The racket break slow down time thing. 

The way you've explained them is not my experience with them. Nor do I think it's how the majority of people will approach them. Particularly playing tournament mode. The CPU just builds up and builds up and then their third shot of the rally is often a zone shot. My problem is that I'd rather not have to slow time down to 'try' and block it back. But then the racket break mechanic is in there. So the game punishes you if you choose not to try and block opponent's shots by weakening your racket, and for actually blocking it as it uses all of your  gauge up whilst you wait for the ball to come to you to  block properly. Unless one has impeccable timing that is. 

My overall point is that the shots detract from the experience by removing you from actually playing the rallies. I find the game slows enough between points with characters cutesy celebrations etc, so slowing it down further with these weird mechanics just ruins the experience for me personally. It's almost as if they felt like their star shots were not manic enough so decided to throw this in to really make it even less like a tennis game. 

Some may feel I'm being unfairly critical and that's fine. But when all is said and done this is a tennis game. And like I say the underlying core tennis mechanics are, as always, truly great. But they're so lost in the chaos of it trying to be even madder than the games  gone before it that it loses its appeal for me and becomes yet another disappointing entry. 

 

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I'm enourmously disappointed at the lack of content outside of Adventure Mode! There's basically nothing! You can't even set the number of games/sets to play in local multi! You can't even directly choose a court! There are actually fewer options for local play than in Ultra Smash, somehow!!

Where's ringshot? Where are all of the special game modes!? Are there really only 7 courts in total!? The CPU Tournament mode isn't even worth playing! You don't get any victory cutscenes for each character and you can't even earn Star Characters like before!! (beating one cup just unlocks the next for every character), you get absolutely nothing for beating it (except for a pointless crown jpeg next to each character who beat Star Cup), it's a total waste of time! There are no unlockable characters either as far as I can tell, just the extra ones that will be added later on in the months ahead! There's nothing to do outside of Adventure Mode and local/online multiplayer!

Yes the core gameplay is absolutely top-notch (leagues above Ultra Smash!) and the new mechanics are fantastic. And Adventure Mode does seem to be fun and fairly substantial (I've only done the first two challenges so far and they were pretty good), with some interesting challenges scattered throughout the 7 courts, but there's practically nothing outside it!

This is a killer multiplayer game for sure, Camelot really nailed the core gameplay (both in Standard and Simple mode) and they've done a great job with the Adventure Mode (I also appreciate the little touches that echo Golden Sun more than a little ;) ), but I'm hugely disappointed by the lack of content outside of it...

10 hours ago, Aneres11 said:

The way you've explained them is not my experience with them. Nor do I think it's how the majority of people will approach them. Particularly playing tournament mode. The CPU just builds up and builds up and then their third shot of the rally is often a zone shot. My problem is that I'd rather not have to slow time down to 'try' and block it back. But then the racket break mechanic is in there. So the game punishes you if you choose not to try and block opponent's shots by weakening your racket, and for actually blocking it as it uses all of your  gauge up whilst you wait for the ball to come to you to  block properly. Unless one has impeccable timing that is.

You can actually block a zone shot without using zone speed (it's really hard, but you can do it!).  You can also choose to purposly let it go, take the point loss and save your energy for later.  There's quite a few options available to you here!

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Just had 9 amazing matches with Dazzybee. We both chose random and just went at it! Neither of us ever won 2 matches in a row. Nerve-wracking! Anyway, here's some of my favourite moments.

Spoiler

 

12 hours ago, Dcubed said:

You can actually block a zone shot without using zone speed (it's really hard, but you can do it!).

Eh, it's not that tough.

You get a crazy amount of energy for blocking a Zone shot without Zone Speed. That's some high risk/high reward choices there!

The last match was insane though. Lasted a good half hour and went to Tiebreaker! And it was still crazy close!

This might just be my favourite Mario Tennis game. I was shaking with nerves by the end of that match!

 

Edited by Glen-i
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Played local Doubles online. The KO mechanic is the dumbest thing ever. Basically, if anyone's racket breaks, they lose the whole thing so it not worth the risk so every time someone pulls off one of those super shots everyone just runs away. 

Also, you can only do Tie Breaker.

And you basically can't tweak any of the other options (so you can't switch the KO mechanic off, or change the number of rackets everyone has...which is set at 1 for no good reason).

Genuinely terrible, all of this.

 

And I know people have mentioned there is an option to reject bad connections, but you can't reject the people who have apparently good/fine connections that then turn to crap (and usually never recover) over the course of a match.

 

It's frustrating, because if it works and none of the players are gaming the systems, then it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Also, fuck Boo.

 

Edit: As for single player...

Fuck Boo

AND

Why can you only play as Mario? And why is Toad even there. And why can't I restart challenges straight away? And why do I have to sit through crap before a challenge AND AFTER WHEN I'VE LOST?!

I can't play this game for too long. It both brilliant and driving me barmy.

Edited by Daft

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24 minutes ago, Daft said:

Played local Doubles online. The KO mechanic is the dumbest thing ever. Basically, if anyone's racket breaks, they lose the whole thing so it not worth the risk so every time someone pulls off one of those super shots everyone just runs away. 

Also, you can only do Tie Breaker.

And you basically can't tweak any of the other options (so you can't switch the KO mechanic off, or change the number of rackets everyone has...which is set at 1 for no good reason).

Genuinely terrible, all of this.

 

And I know people have mentioned there is an option to reject bad connections, but you can't reject the people who have apparently good/fine connections that then turn to crap (and usually never recover) over the course of a match.

 

It's frustrating, because if it works and none of the players are gaming the systems, then it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Also, fuck Boo.

 

Edit: As for single player...

Fuck Boo

AND

Why can you only play as Mario? And why is Toad even there. And why can't I restart challenges straight away? And why do I have to sit through crap before a challenge AND AFTER WHEN I'VE LOST?!

I can't play this game for too long. It both brilliant and driving me barmy.

Learn when to block and you'll go far.

You need to play with friends, far more fun and tactics in those matches.

Boo can be coped with by playing a bit closer to the net. The less time his ball travels, the less time it has to curve. Move a little closer whenever he serves and you'll wonder how you ever struggled in the first place.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can tweak rules in local play.

Edited by Glen-i

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Really unimpressed by this.

Can only play using motion controls in a single mode, why?  Tennis is one of the few games where motion controls work really well and it's limited to a single mode.  Saying that, even in this mode I can't seem to understand how to hold the JoyCon.  The image before hand seems to suggest the blank edge (without L/R) is the rear of the racket, but I just can't seem to get it to do anything I want it to do.

Adventure mode, so far, seems to be pointless and act as an extended tutorial.  Why was this featured so prominently when originally announced?

Why can't I just jump into a normal game of tennis?  Unless I'm missing something I can only do weird tie-break-esque version.

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11 minutes ago, V. Amoleo said:

Why can't I just jump into a normal game of tennis?  Unless I'm missing something I can only do weird tie-break-esque version.

Only the tournament, local play and playing online with friends lets you do a 1 set, 2 game match.

Yep, it's dumb.

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I'm stuck going back across the ocean, I can't beat Blooper on the pirate ship. It seems doable, but very very difficult. Any tips?

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I see this went straight into number 1 in the UK charts. Very impressive for any Nintendo title to do that here in the UK, never mind a Mario sports game.

My mate snapped it up over the weekend and isn't impressed with it at all. I told him not to buy it but he didn't listen. 

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19 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Learn when to block and you'll go far.

You need to play with friends, far more fun and tactics in those matches.

Boo can be coped with by playing a bit closer to the net. The less time his ball travels, the less time it has to curve. Move a little closer whenever he serves and you'll wonder how you ever struggled in the first place.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can tweak rules in local play.

Blocking is good and all, but screwing an attempt up shouldn't mean a fail state for the game. Especially when I'm co-oping with friends who has little to no experience playing the game. Considering the pick-up-and-playness of the game – to the point that you can only play Tie Break in online doubles (with a local co-op partner) and not a full set – this implementation is nothing but incredibly stupid. I genuinely had to tell my friend that when the other team did the super move to just leave it; the pros far outweigh the cons; I'd rather lose the point than risk THE WHOLE GAME. (Obviously he still went for it and failed and we lost...despite out reading the opponent at every turn)

I don't really have an issue with tactics. I actually think this is one of the few games where you can read your opponents (and even kite them) pretty well, it's one of the best things.

Yeah, you have a point with Boo. I started to cotton onto his schemes. 

Online doubles (with a local partner) seems to only let you choose between the normal and the simple rule set, but you can't change things like the number of rackets or if KOs are allowed. 

Edit:

Also, how you select courts is atrocious. Why can't there be a normal stage select after the character select?

Between this and the dumb stage rotation in Splatoon, I'm really starting to remember the inverse silver lining that comes with everything good from Nintendo.

Edited by Daft
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Not been able to play this yet. How well do you all rate this compared to Mario Tennis Ultra Smash on Wii U? I didn't enjoy that too much much and preferred Mario Power Tennis on GameCube, it was less gimmicky and felt like it had more depth (although this was a long time ago!). 

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14 hours ago, Tim B said:

I'm stuck going back across the ocean, I can't beat Blooper on the pirate ship. It seems doable, but very very difficult. Any tips?

The main thing on that one is to have good timing on the trick shot, for returning his shots and avoiding the attacks. Being able to block without using Zone Speed is pretty handy too.
I got it on my second attempt, although I never managed to block when he did a Zone Shot to the opposite side of his tentacle. I guess you need to trick shot over in advance and then block. ::shrug: But yeah, didn't make much difference anyway, as long as you're getting the ones he shoots directly at you and his standard shots it's doable without blocking the ones on the opposite side.

Edited by RedShell

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I've got to admit that I'm disappointed by the reaction this game has received. I was super excited at first and despite the lag, I was pretty impressed with the online event a few weeks ago. Unfortunately the lack of multiplayer match options and poor single player had put me off a purchase, especially as they kept pushing the single player ahead of the games launch.

My biggest concern however is that the rallies seem to go on for AGES! I think I'll wait for a balance patch or two, depending on how well the game is supported post-launch.

In the meantime, I'm tempted to get back into Mario Tennis 64. The gameplay in that game is the best I've ever experienced in a tennis game.

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4 hours ago, Daft said:

Blocking is good and all, but screwing an attempt up shouldn't mean a fail state for the game. Especially when I'm co-oping with friends who has little to no experience playing the game. Considering the pick-up-and-playness of the game – to the point that you can only play Tie Break in online doubles (with a local co-op partner) and not a full set – this implementation is nothing but incredibly stupid. I genuinely had to tell my friend that when the other team did the super move to just leave it; the pros far outweigh the cons; I'd rather lose the point than risk THE WHOLE GAME. (Obviously he still went for it and failed and we lost...despite out reading the opponent at every turn)

I don't really have an issue with tactics. I actually think this is one of the few games where you can read your opponents (and even kite them) pretty well, it's one of the best things.

Yeah, you have a point with Boo. I started to cotton onto his schemes. 

Online doubles (with a local partner) seems to only let you choose between the normal and the simple rule set, but you can't change things like the number of rackets or if KOs are allowed. 

Edit:

Also, how you select courts is atrocious. Why can't there be a normal stage select after the character select?

Between this and the dumb stage rotation in Splatoon, I'm really starting to remember the inverse silver lining that comes with everything good from Nintendo.

You can't tweak rules when you play with random people. Which sucks, because one racket is a stupid amount for any game!

You should consider playing with friends instead. You can change a few things there to how you like it.

Except number of sets. You can only do 1 set, 2 games.

As much as I'm loving this game, it has some incredibly serious problems. On top of the pitiful customisation when playing with random people.

Defensive characters are way too good. You might as well just use Bowser Jr. Because he's by far the best character. It's almost impossible to lob him and his trick shots can catapult him across the entire court.

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I don't want to make friends just so I can play doubles in a non-torturous way. I want to play this game casually and jump on randomly for a few games and then jump off. If I want to play a game with friends I'd rather just play Overwatch tbh.

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Good games last night @BowserBasher & @dazzybee:peace: I didn’t realise you could set the game to alternate between singles and doubles in free play, or that spectating was possible. :)

I definitely need to get my controller situation sorted out though, the stick drifting problem is getting really bad now. :shakehead

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So I finished the "adventure" mode, and man... even with low expectations it was a serious let-down. :( It's not just the lack of content that's the problem either, it's also lacking the polish you'd usually expect from a high-profile Nintendo game. There were times when it almost felt like I was playing a knock-off Mario Tennis, :o that's how lacklustre some of this stuff is!
I mean, basic world map design, incredibly bland UI, boring missions that are either way too easy or ridiculously difficult... I could go on and on. :hmm:

It screams of wasted potential. :nono: Quite how it's possible to have access to the entire Super Mario IP yet create something which is severely lacking in variety and more importantly, completely soulless, I'll never know. ::shrug: Actually, I think I do know, and it's probably that the staff at Camelot have simply become sick of making these games, so instead of it being a fun project to work on that receives due love and attention, it's just a chore that they want to get out of the way as fast as possible. Well, that's what the end product feels like this time around, at least as far as the adventure mode is concerned. 

Although having said that, it's not like other aspects of the game aren't showing similar signs of neglect. Stuff like those recycled renders on the character select screen and court banners are also not a good look, and an indication that they either couldn't be arsed to create original content, or weren't given the opportunity/time to do so.

Anyway, here's hoping this game is set to receive free DLC updates in the future (and not just additional characters) otherwise I reckon it's going to leave a lot of people very weary of the series going forward. :blank:

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Yeah I think it's time Camelot were put to work on something else, it must be pretty exhausting working on the same type of game over and over, especially after Ultra Smash was their last game.

Look at the love Ubisoft Milan put into Mario Rabbids, they could make an incredible sports game.

Edited by Ronnie
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12 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Yeah I think it's time Camelot were put to work on something else, it must be pretty exhausting working on the same type of game over and over, especially after Ultra Smash was their last game.

They need to get back to making RPGs. That's where they truly shone.

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Honestly, if Nintendo announced a Golden Sun game for Switch you'd be able to hear my scream in the vacuum of space.

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28 minutes ago, Daft said:

Honestly, if Nintendo announced a Golden Sun game for Switch you'd be able to hear my scream in the vacuum of space.

OK, OK. No need to get that excited.

There, that should cover up the fact I'd react similarly.

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Wouldn't say no to a Golden Sun sequel myself. I've just rebought the original on GBA.

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2 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

Wouldn't say no to a Golden Sun sequel myself. I've just rebought the original on GBA.

I wouldn't even mind a remake of the first two games (I never played The Lost Age)

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Let's all be real though. It'd be a miracle if Isaac even makes it back to Smash as an Assist Trophy.

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