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drahkon

Do you get offended?

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Here's the deal: Yesterday I spent some time with a couple of people (friends and people I know but don't consider friends). At one point we told each other jokes and someone asked me what my favourite joke was. Well...

What's the difference between a trampoline and a baby?

I take my shoes off when I jump on a trampoline.

 

Two people got really mad at me. "How can you think that's funny?", "What if your child got hurt or died, would you still find that joke funny?", "This is not funny at all.".

Obviously they were offended by that joke.

 

I'm someone who doesn't get offended. Somebody says science is wrong, religion is true? I don't care. Somebody uses the term white/black in reference to a skin colour (you can't really say "black person" to refer to a black person in Germany; you're immediately calls a Nazi)? I don't care. Somebody assumes anybody's gender? I don't care.

I don't get offended by anything others get offended by and in turn I simply say what's on my mind.

Not to say that I'm inconsiderate. If I know that someone has certain issues I will not make jokes about that in his presence.

 

It just made me think...do people generally get offended more now than in the past? What about you? Do you get offended by stuff?

 

Not sure if any of that makes sense. I'm having trouble expressing exactly what I want to say in a coherent manner. It would be much easier in German :D

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I never get offended. I try my hardest to not offend anyone, but at the same time find it so difficult to understand anyone who gets offended by anything, especially religion, color, politics, gender. It's only a joke, stop taking things so seriously. The world does not revolve around you, etc. There's so little time that we all have, why go around fretting about what others think. Just laugh and don't take everything so god damn seriously. If someone calls me a lanky c&£*, I just agree with them or give it back and hope they can take it as much as they dish it out.
I'm Welsh and once spent the evening, night and morning in the company of 6 English strangers drinking who ripped the piss out of me all night. I didn't bat an eyelid but just added to their sheep jokes. I made one comment to retaliate and 4 of them were ready to punch me back to next Tuesday. I just don't get it???


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7 minutes ago, londragon said:

I try my hardest to not offend anyone

Never in my life will I do that again. I've done that for years. Until I was about 21. It's so tiring, always trying to avoid certain topics or words...urgh.

Again, when I know it's not the right time to joke about certain things, I keep it to myself. But in any other situation...I just say what's on my mind.

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I can't say i'm never offended (well maybe mild internal annoyance is more true to what i feel), but i don't create a scene, being offended doesn't hurt anyone, it doesn't hurt you, its just somethign you feel, some annoyance and thats it! getting all prissy and causing a scene over personally finding something offensive is about one of the only things that genuinely offends me to be honest, so you personally don't like something so you don't want others to do it? or you aren't happy something was said because in the past yadda yadda uadd and i should have known? er no, be a grown up, say politely if you don't like something and either remove yourself from the situation or ask for it not to be repeated in your presence.

You make an interesting point about skin colour, i work for a local authority and we get bombarded with the latest politically correct ways to say things and 9/10 times its a load of nonsense, to the point people have gotten quite annoyed by how people try and avoid certain phrases or descriptions, for example, there was a bloke who worked in our office for quote some years (he's moved to a different better job elsewhere now) called Pete, Pete is black and one day he went off on people in the office, i can't quite remember exactly how the conversation started, but a white guy was trying to describe a bloke in another bit of the building, this bloke was black and he made every effort to not ever mention he was black and Pete was sick of it! for god's sake he's black just say he's black its not offensive to describe someone etc etc. It calmed down but you could see the frustration in him, he was sick of people deciding you can't describe someones colour of skin, he actually found the latest politically correct term for ethic minorities (people/person of colour) to be confusingly offensive, as previously people were coloured and that became offensive and suddenly an oddly similar way of saying that is the correct way?

I totally agreed with Pete, had some great discussions on the absurdity of race relations and the silly decisions and things that people took offense over and how suddenly things were now not correct or offensive,  he had a real problem with the modern idea of cultural appropriation too, a problem i share, we've been encouraged for year to integrate, accept and enjoy each others culture and now it seems a loud sub set of liberal people don't like that and consider people emulating others culture as appropriation, society and peoples evolve as the integrate each others cultures into one another its almost like some people want segregation to prevent......being offended,and that seems to be a massive problem, people don't know how to deal with being offended and favour censorship and avoiding anything that causes offense, rather tha addressing why you are offended, what causes offense and working something out through discussion.

I miss Pete, i'll never for get Christmas 2015 when our works do was at a fancy restaurant, he drank a bottle of wine to himself, got pissed (and loud) and when his desert was brought out, hid it under the table and claimed he never got one so he could have seconds! it was hilarious how a serious jovial, but equally angry middle aged man turned into a teenager through a bottle of wine

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I'm pretty thick skinned so nothing really offends me. I grew up getting ripped on by my mates and me ripping on them, as such I take most things in good fun. I'm also a pretty religious guy and many people over the years have taken a pop at my beliefs, again I just kinda join in and poke fun at myself. Why get worked up over something when it's far better to just diffuse the situation and have a laugh?

Funnily enough my oldest brother and me were talking about this very subject just the other day. He was saying how he got reported at work the other day for apparently being sexist. Him and a few guys were talking about the whole Dr. Who now being a woman situation. They were just having a laugh and my brother said "What's next? A Dalek with tits?" Every one had a good laugh and went on about their business. One of the people he was talking to approached him later in the day and gave him a heads up that someone reported him for that joke. Crazy.

He also told me about how a friend of his got in trouble over asking for his coffee to be black. This guy got reported at work by someone who thought it was offensive and that if he wanted coffee like that then he should have asked for a coffee without milk or cream. Turns out that the person reporting him was white and the only coloured person in the company had zero issues with what the guy had said and found the whole situation quite hilarious.

I honestly hate how things have become where people can't say what they think. It certainly has become a lot worse these days @drahkon. Stephen Fry said it best...

 

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1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I honestly hate how things have become where people can't say what they think. It certainly has become a lot worse these days @drahkon.

It's become ridiculous.

The worst for me is when you say "the guys" and mean a collective of people, both male and female. "But 'guy' is male, that's sexist". It's even worse in German, because we have more declensions than the English language. If you don't want to offend people you have to be really careful. It's a good think I don't care.

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I can see both sides of this. Do I get offended? Well, yes, and I have been in the past. But, the word "offended" has lost a lot of its meaning and power and is now thrown about far too often and lightly. It's almost the same with the term "bully". That's a horrible word and it's meant to have a very bad and negative meaning. But, by using it often and incorrectly, it loses its meaning.

I have a big problem with people who get offended "for you". As in, if someone was to come up to my face and call me a "stupid paki bastard" (which I have been called in the past), that's directed at me and I should feel bad. When someone else gets more upset than you do about it, it's as if you can't even "own" the emotion. They're getting angry or upset for you. Over the years, I've found that I've known more white people to get offended over racist or xenophobic behaviour and such than I've known actual people of different backgrounds to get offended. Part of that is that you learn to develop thicker skin, I suppose. But, the other side of it is odd to me. I can't quite explain it.

At the same time, the term "offended" has almost given people more of a licence to be more offensive or horrible to each other. It's like a safety blanket to hide behind when a person makes or are about to make a comment that they know is horrible, the get-out clause is something akin to "I don't care who it offends", or "she's always offended" or "it's PC gone mad!"

But, this is all context based and it should always be given a context. Calling "black coffee" exactly that is fine. But, by taking offense with it, we're actually minimising the impact from some of the more serious cases. Also, nothing makes me laugh more than when people are afraid to use the word "black" or something to that effect. I fucking laugh every time I meet a new person and they try to guess where I'm from and how they tremble at using words like "Asian" or "Pakistani" or even "Welsh" occasionally! The ones who are so scared to say anything for fear of offense. Fuuuuck saaaake. I also find that strange and it makes me feel awkward immediately. Just use your brain. Think before you speak.

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I love dead baby jokes. They are objectively funny. Like, what's the difference between a pizza and a baby? The pizza wasn't alive when it was put in the oven.

 

I usually don't get offended by that kind of stuff. However, if people are wrong about something, I tend to get a bit upset and may use a harsher tone of voice when explaining that they are wrong. It's not that I'm angry, I just want them to understand.

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Just now, MindFreak said:

I love dead baby jokes. They are objectively funny. Like, what's the difference between a pizza and a baby? The pizza wasn't alive when it was put in the oven.

I'm offended.

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I'm one of the rudest, and somewhat ironically if you heard me just talk without knowing me, racist brown people you'll meet. I love a harsh joke, a rude joke, an inappropriate joke. They're all always contextual however and I am aware of the actual whole inappropriateness that I probs wouldn't do it with other people.

Am I offended as a result? Generally no. I get annoyed sometimes because I wonder if a jokes being run for its own sake or rather to make a point/put someone down but I sometimes realise in my own harshness I sometimes probably come across with a more malignant and solid seeming intent than I mean.

I think it takes(beyond a few things) a lot to offend me - tbh more often that not I find greater offense in things that might offend others - but on that note I try my best not to self-righteously leap to their defense without knowing it's cool.

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For me, there's three things here.

 

Frankly, @drahkon I think the joke you told was disgusting, but it's always been disgusting, so nothing to do with modern political correctness in my opinion.  Some people have a tolerance for that sort of thing and others don't.  If you told it in my presence I simply wouldn't laugh, but I wouldn't overreact.  When this has happened with my friends I just say something like "That's not my sense of humour".  I don't expect to like everything I hear, or be protected from hearing things I don't like.

 

Secondly, I don't agree with the mantra of many that "offence is taken, not given".  If someone deliberately tries to upset you, you're entitled to take offence.  It's like the rules of banter - you don't say anything that your mates are genuinely sensitive about.  In my opinion, the only true offence is when you feel you have a weakness and others are attacking it.

 

Racial matters are a bit of a unique matter.  As a Caucasian, I'd be gutted if I used the wrong term and upset any of my black friends.  I think most us do genuinely want to know the right term in that regard.  I am fairly right-wing and said some pretty strong things after the recent terrorist attacks, which offended a lovely Arab woman I'm friends with.  Again, I was genuinely upset about that.

 

But overall, I agree.  Call it political correctness, virtue signalling, being snowflakes or whatever, this general matter has gone too far.  It annoys me when people say they're offended by the Blurred Lines video or the Protein World poster.  No, you're not; you're just trying to force your political beliefs on the world.  I don't think "offence" is the right term.

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3 minutes ago, Grazza said:

Frankly, @drahkon I think the joke you told was disgusting, but it's always been disgusting, so nothing to do with modern political correctness in my opinion.  Some people have a tolerance for that sort of thing and others don't.  If you told it in my presence I simply wouldn't laugh, but I wouldn't overreact.  When this has happened with my friends I just say something like "That's not my sense of humour".  I don't expect to like everything I hear, or be protected from hearing things I don't like.

Fair enough. A reaction like this is fine and to be honest, I expect something like this if people don't enjoy what I say. Either don't laugh, or tell me it's not the kind of thing you like.

Throwing a tantrum over it, however...I can't stand it.

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7 minutes ago, Grazza said:

Secondly, I don't agree with the mantra of many that "offence is taken, not given".  If someone deliberately tries to upset you, you're entitled to take offence.  It's like the rules of banter - you don't say anything that your mates are genuinely sensitive about.  In my opinion, the only true offence is when you feel you have a weakness and others are attacking it.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Again, it's about context. There's definitely a limit with people that you're never explicitly taught (unless it goes wrong and they correct you) and there are certain things that go beyond that limit.

E.g. would you tell a dead baby joke to someone who has just had a miscarriage, for example? Again, that's the context there and that's where it can cause offence.

Some people are just outright horrible and will use veiled jokes or sarcasm to hurt people, but it's fine because it's "just a joke" or "banter".

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5 hours ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

 

I have a big problem with people who get offended "for you". As in, if someone was to come up to my face and call me a "stupid paki bastard" (which I have been called in the past), that's directed at me and I should feel bad.

Can i just say, no you should not feel bad, they should feel bad for being a racist ass hole! i get why you'd feel bad initially but seriously if you have to resort to race to insult someone, or your only reason to hate someone is the pigment of their skin, then fuck me they are utterly stupid arse holes

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Dead baby jokes are not funny. There's no nuance of humour to them at all. They're not even jokes, the only point of them is to be offensive for the sake of it. They don't offend me because they're dark and twisted, they offend me because they're the lowest form of comedy (well 2nd lowest after the big bang theory).

I've never really understood people's issues with political correctness. Most stories of "political correctness gone mad" are false and made up by the right wing press (similar with health and safety gone mad stories). "Teachers can't sing baa baa black sheep anymore" yes they can, no teacher in the history of nursery rhymes has ever been told that. "Kids have to wear safety goggles to play conkers" nope, that was a joke by a headteachers that the papers bastardised. Political correctness is basically "don't be a cunt".

As for people getting more offended, that's nonsense. When Little Britain first aired it was seen as so groundbreaking. Now you barely bat an eyelid. Swearing was rarely on TV. 30 years ago people used to get offended by the existence of gay people. And 20 years before that an interracial kiss on TV sparked dozens of complaints. Even now older people are more likely to complain to ofcom.

Other people being offended doesn't give their view more right, and if you genuinely think you were doing nothing offensive then you shouldn't modify your behaviour, but is it really such a big deal to not do something that might upset you. What harm is it to you?

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I don't really get offended that much and I definitely agree with what most people have said. Dead baby jokes don't personally offend me but as Moogle said they are in no way a joke, it's not humour, it's just dark twisted. I guess for me the only time I would be offended is if someone took maybe some insecurity or issue I had and used it to make a joke at my expense. Probably wouldn't be too big a fan of that. As Flink has said, a lot of it comes down to context, if you think someone might take offence to a particular joke, be it because of race, personal history etc, don't make that "joke".

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I agree with pretty much everything Moogleviper said. He said most of the things I was going to bring up.

(And to the people saying "I don't get offended", I call bull. Everybody gets their sensibilities offended over something, even if you can't think of your hot button topic right now.)

On 01/08/2017 at 0:18 PM, Fierce_LiNk said:

I have a big problem with people who get offended "for you". As in, if someone was to come up to my face and call me a "stupid paki bastard" (which I have been called in the past), that's directed at me and I should feel bad. When someone else gets more upset than you do about it, it's as if you can't even "own" the emotion. They're getting angry or upset for you. Over the years, I've found that I've known more white people to get offended over racist or xenophobic behaviour and such than I've known actual people of different backgrounds to get offended. Part of that is that you learn to develop thicker skin, I suppose. But, the other side of it is odd to me. I can't quite explain it.

You know, funny thing, recently a news article came up that made me think about a similar subject. A British family was stopped from using the burkini in a Portuguese hotel, with the owner saying "In Portugal we don't accept these things. You have to wear a bikini, which is what's typical Portuguese" (all of that is untrue, btw. No laws against burkinis, and bikinis aren't traditional at all).

The news bothered me quite a bit. Certainly not on behalf of the British family, who I don't know, and sounds unlikeable to begin with (they milked this story for 15 minutes of fame and they all look like Big Brother contestants). After mulling on it for a bit, I think what bothers me the most about the story is the hotel owner himself: he decided to be a dick on behalf of my country, and thought that was acceptable. If someone said Portuguese people were assholes, I'd be insulted, and now here's a guy whose actions imply exactly that.

In other words, he represents an ugly side of my own culture and identity, and that bothers me. And then, if we don't contest his actions and make it clear we think he's a dick... we are essentially conceding that he's right, isn't it?

(Sorry if this all sounds like a disconnected ramble :heh:)

All this to theorise, that those white people who get offended on behalf of you might essentially be defending themselves from association, even if they don't realise it. Do you think they would they get similarly offended/defensive if it was, say, a black or Chinese person hurling a racist insult at you?

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Jokes depend on your audience, context and timing. What someone finds funny someone else might not. I do get offended sometimes and I'm not that thick skinned but I am trying to deal with things a bit better than before.

However...gone are the days of the British stiff upper lip where people kept their emotions largely hidden and I believe we have moved into a world where people are generally more impolite to each other but at the same time more open to their feelings and expressing them. Technology and social constructs have failed to keep up with each other and this is also causing issues. Some universities creating safe spaces for people, shutting down free speech and professors giving students trigger warnings before talking about something is not really equipping people for life outside of uni.

 

 

Edited by sumo73
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5 hours ago, sumo73 said:

 

 

That's a nice little vid that echoes some of my thoughts. Thanks for that, Sumo.

Edited by Hero-of-Time
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7 hours ago, sumo73 said:

 Some universities creating safe spaces for people, shutting down free speech and professors giving students trigger warnings before taking about something is not really equipping people for life outside of uni.

 

 

Isn't that stuff limited to America though? They tend to take everything to the extreme. I've not heard of that sort of stuff in the UK or elsewhere.

Also I think a lot of it is overblown by the media. One professor says one thing to one student, the media picks up on it and suddenly it's an endemic of lefty-liberal brainwashing colleges.

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On 01/08/2017 at 11:14 PM, MoogleViper said:

Dead baby jokes are not funny. There's no nuance of humour to them at all. They're not even jokes, the only point of them is to be offensive for the sake of it. They don't offend me because they're dark and twisted, they offend me because they're the lowest form of comedy (well 2nd lowest after the big bang theory).

I agree. I don't get offended by them but I just don't find them funny.

 

Here's the thing. A lot of people do obviously get offended by things but no one here has said they're one of them. Does everyone think that they don't get offended but actually do? Or do we all have this in common about us (not getting offended)? Or are people here just trying to fit in?

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Quote

 

I think it depends in the meaning of offended. Somewhat related to FliNks point, I get "offended" if I hear a racist joke. It doesn't offend me personally as I'm white but it does annoy/anger/irritate me. I don't see it as getting offended on somebody else's behalf, I just think those sort of viewpoints are disgusting and it bothers me that people like that exist.

Edited by MoogleViper
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14 hours ago, Jonnas said:

I agree with pretty much everything Moogleviper said. He said most of the things I was going to bring up.

(And to the people saying "I don't get offended", I call bull. Everybody gets their sensibilities offended over something, even if you can't think of your hot button topic right now.)

You know, funny thing, recently a news article came up that made me think about a similar subject. A British family was stopped from using the burkini in a Portuguese hotel, with the owner saying "In Portugal we don't accept these things. You have to wear a bikini, which is what's typical Portuguese" (all of that is untrue, btw. No laws against burkinis, and bikinis aren't traditional at all).

The news bothered me quite a bit. Certainly not on behalf of the British family, who I don't know, and sounds unlikeable to begin with (they milked this story for 15 minutes of fame and they all look like Big Brother contestants). After mulling on it for a bit, I think what bothers me the most about the story is the hotel owner himself: he decided to be a dick on behalf of my country, and thought that was acceptable. If someone said Portuguese people were assholes, I'd be insulted, and now here's a guy whose actions imply exactly that.

In other words, he represents an ugly side of my own culture and identity, and that bothers me. And then, if we don't contest his actions and make it clear we think he's a dick... we are essentially conceding that he's right, isn't it?

(Sorry if this all sounds like a disconnected ramble :heh:)

All this to theorise, that those white people who get offended on behalf of you might essentially be defending themselves from association, even if they don't realise it. Do you think they would they get similarly offended/defensive if it was, say, a black or Chinese person hurling a racist insult at you?

Oh, I completely agree that racism, sexism, bullying or anything that discriminates against a person for a reason that isn't under their control is wrong and should be challenged. I'm not against that at all. It should be seen as appalling behaviour.

1 hour ago, MoogleViper said:

I think it depends in the meaning of offended. Somewhat related to FliNks point, I get "offended" if I hear a racist joke. It doesn't offend me personally as I'm white but it does annoy/anger/irritate me. I don't see it as getting offended on somebody else's behalf, I just think those sort of viewpoints are disgusting and it bothers me that people like that exist.

Yeah, again, I agree with that and understand what you're saying.

On the subject of 'free speech': where do we draw the line between 'free speech' and 'hate speech'? Again, I feel that some people are able to hide in plain sight by blurring this line.

 

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6 hours ago, MoogleViper said:

Isn't that stuff limited to America though? They tend to take everything to the extreme. I've not heard of that sort of stuff in the UK or elsewhere.

For me the UK and elsewhere is influenced by America, by how much I don't know but we are shaped in some way but what happens over there. What's happening in US universities is making it's way over here. Last year the British government had a debate about safe spaces at some UK uni's so that shows that it isn't just limited to the USA. People here are already starting to use the term 'people/person of color' a term which is less nuanced and more loaded than ethnic minorities for example. 

Edited by sumo73
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15 hours ago, sumo73 said:

However...gone are the days of the British stiff upper lip where people kept their emotions largely hidden and I believe we have moved into a world where people are generally more impolite to each other but at the same time more open to their feelings and expressing them. Technology and social constructs have failed to keep up with each other and this is also causing issues. Some universities creating safe spaces for people, shutting down free speech and professors giving students trigger warnings before talking about something is not really equipping people for life outside of uni.

Just throwing this out there...if there is a perceived injustice, why shouldn't people be challenging it? There is no "false dignity" in just gritting your teeth and ignoring things because then nothing really changes. Surely that's where improvements have come from in terms of better rights for homosexuals, better workplace rights for women and more opportunities to succeed regardless of your background?

I don't necessarily know whether people are generally just more impolite or if we're being exposed to these things more due to social media. I don't know where we'd begin to quantify that.

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