Football Season 2017-18

[Julius]

42 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I don't think Madrid won the tie because they had a winning mentality or because they were better, it was down to the fact that Bayern didn't take their chances. Had Madrid faced a team who were more critical up front then they would have been decimated if they played like they did these past two games. IMO, they scraped by in this leg and are lucky to be in the final at all.

Oh, for sure, they’ve been riding their own luck for a while at this point (the second leg vs. Juve in particular comes to mind), and did so for large parts of the game last night. Their performances in Europe so far this season have reminded me of them in 2015/16; they’re just getting the job done.

When I was talking about their winning mentality, I was talking more about their performances as a whole in Europe this season. They have a number of leaders on the pitch who are vastly more experienced than other players in the competition based purely on how far they’ve gone in recent seasons. 

With regards to last night, Bayern definitely should have been more clinical, but I think it’s worth mentioning that Navas pulled off a number of fine saves, so I’d say that Madrid were deserving of some of that luck. On the other hand, Bayern were lucky to get such a straightforward route to the semi-finals; their only loss prior to meeting Real was against PSG in the group stage, and if they had won that game, then they would have been the ones facing Real in the last 16, and Real were playing much better then than they are currently. 

So I think them being lucky is balanced out if you think about the luck that Bayern had in drawing favourable opposition en route to the semi-finals 

Bet you’re just nervous Ronaldo and their defence will actually turn up in the final  

Edited May 2, 2018 by Julius Caesar

[Hero-of-Time]

Not really. I doubt we'll get past Roma, never mind worrying about Madrid.  

[Fierce_LiNk]

Game has just started. I think it'll finish 2-1 or 3-1 to Roma. Roma to win the game, but Liverpool to go through. Think those 4th and 5th goals have pushed this too far beyond Roma and it's a big task for them to overturn this in 90 minutes.

[Happenstance]

There we go, 1-0

[Fierce_LiNk]

That's it, tbh. Mentally, there's no way for Roma to come back from that. Think Liverpool will see this through before half-time and then just do down the game-management route.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Can anyone think of a worse team to make a Champions League semi-final? Also, the quality of the defending (and the mistakes) in this game and yesterday's is really, really bad. 

[killthenet]

The defending across both matches this week has been atrocious, Bayern absolutely tore Real apart going forward but Navas was the only one on form in Madrid's backline and is the reason they managed to hold on and get through. The match in Rome could still be anything, Liverpool have been shaky all night at the back but you'd expect Salah to get an opportunity later in the game, the tie is still winnable as far as the Roma manager will be thinking so he won't be trying to shut up shop and keep Liverpool out just yet. 

Real shame for Milner to concede the own goal, he was so unlucky last week with the penalty decision too.

[nekunando]

I still haven't ruled out extra time....

We're doing great, though. I was half expecting to be 2-0 down by now and bricking it!

[Julius]

22 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Can anyone think of a worse team to make a Champions League semi-final? Also, the quality of the defending (and the mistakes) in this game and yesterday's is really, really bad. 

Yeah, it’s been atrocious. I expect to see some very heavy spending on defenders after the World Cup this summer from each of the five major leagues’ top teams. 

Barça in 12/13 has to be up there for worst/most underwhelming semi-finalist, I think. They lost to Bayern 7-0 over two legs in the semi-finals, being man-marked out of the game all over the pitch; went through on away goals against PSG in the quarter finals (3-3) and only won 4-2 on aggregate against a young and inexperienced Milan side, even losing 2-0 away at the San Siro. 

[Fierce_LiNk]

I know it wouldn't have made a difference. But...Roma should have had a blatant penalty. Dzeko was clearly onside.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Um, how is that not handball? The ball is going into the net and the only thing stopping it is that hand. Is that a red, too?

If they had a penalty for that and a penalty for the foul on Dzeko earlier...that's potentially two goals. Those are huge calls. Liverpool have been so lucky with the decisions in this game and in the tie against Man City.

[Julius]

4 minutes ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Um, how is that not handball? The ball is going into the net and the only thing stopping it is that hand. Is that a red, too?

If they had a penalty for that and a penalty for the foul on Dzeko earlier...that's potentially two goals. Those are huge calls. Liverpool have been so lucky with the decisions in this game and in the tie against Man City.

I do wonder if UEFA will revisit their stance on VAR after how the knockout stage has gone. We talked before about how it doesn’t work too well in its current format, even to the detriment of some games which it has been utilised in, but, for calls such as handballs and offside calls (which should, in my opinion, be objective calls to make, at least compared to the subjectivity of bookings), I really think more official bodies need to act.

It’s a similar objectivity that the introduction of goal-line technology and shaving foam have achieved in the game, so I definitely think it’s worth taking another look at it  not to take anything away from Liverpool, though. As much as it pains me to say it, they’ve played some brilliant attacking football this season, and I’ve enjoyed watching their highlights. 

[Fierce_LiNk]

43 minutes ago, Julius Caesar said:

Yeah, it’s been atrocious. I expect to see some very heavy spending on defenders after the World Cup this summer from each of the five major leagues’ top teams. 

Barça in 12/13 has to be up there for worst/most underwhelming semi-finalist, I think. They lost to Bayern 7-0 over two legs in the semi-finals, being man-marked out of the game all over the pitch; went through on away goals against PSG in the quarter finals (3-3) and only won 4-2 on aggregate against a young and inexperienced Milan side, even losing 2-0 away at the San Siro. 

Can definitely see the top teams looking for new defenders. There's a definite lack of top quality centre-backs and the prices just seem to be increasing all of the time. Just get the feeling that these top class centre-backs are becoming a rarity. I struggle to think of many.

I remember that Barcelona team. Think this Roma team are worse, though. 

11 minutes ago, Julius Caesar said:

I do wonder if UEFA will revisit their stance on VAR after how the knockout stage has gone. We talked before about how it doesn’t work too well in its current format, even to the detriment of some games which it has been utilised in, but, for calls such as handballs and offside calls (which should, in my opinion, be objective calls to make, at least compared to the subjectivity of bookings), I really think more official bodies need to act.

It’s a similar objectivity that the introduction of goal-line technology and shaving foam have achieved in the game, so I definitely think it’s worth taking another look at it  not to take anything away from Liverpool, though. As much as it pains me to say it, they’ve played some brilliant attacking football this season, and I’ve enjoyed watching their highlights. 

VAR certainly needs looking at again. Roma are now 3-2 up...so those two penalties could potentially have taken them through into extra time. Those are huuuuuge calls. Those calls are too big to just leave it to chance or "wing it" which is what it feels like most of the time. This is the biggest cup competition in club football and those decisions help determine who gets into the final. VAR needs to be seriously looked at and it needs to be improved quickly. 

Liverpool have been the better side, no doubt about it. But, if a decision should result in a penalty, then it's a penalty. In this game alone, according to the rules, Liverpool should have conceded 2. 

[Happenstance]

God, nothing is ever easy with Liverpool is it???

[Fierce_LiNk]

Lol at that last minute penalty call. The referee is literally just making it up on the spot now. 

[killthenet]

Liverpool to win the final 8-7, 5 goals from Ronaldo and a hat-trick each for Salah and Firmino.

[nekunando]

Only Liverpool can make getting to the final feel like you've been eliminated and your soul crushed into a million pieces.. and yet here we are in the final

[Hero-of-Time]

5 minutes ago, nekunando said:

Only Liverpool can make getting to the final feel like you've been eliminated and your soul crushed into a million pieces.. and yet here we are in the final

It's times like these that I'm glad I don't have BT Sports and im unable to watch the games.  

[Emerald Emblem]

Wow, looks like a crazy game in Rome tonight. The final could go either way if Liverpool defend like they did tonight.

[James]

Jesus wept, cruising at one point, falling apart at others

[James]

1 hour ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

Can definitely see the top teams looking for new defenders. There's a definite lack of top quality centre-backs and the prices just seem to be increasing all of the time. Just get the feeling that these top class centre-backs are becoming a rarity. I struggle to think of many.

I remember that Barcelona team. Think this Roma team are worse, though. 

VAR certainly needs looking at again. Roma are now 3-2 up...so those two penalties could potentially have taken them through into extra time. Those are huuuuuge calls. Those calls are too big to just leave it to chance or "wing it" which is what it feels like most of the time. This is the biggest cup competition in club football and those decisions help determine who gets into the final. VAR needs to be seriously looked at and it needs to be improved quickly. 

Liverpool have been the better side, no doubt about it. But, if a decision should result in a penalty, then it's a penalty. In this game alone, according to the rules, Liverpool should have conceded 2. 

And Liverpool should have got one for a push on mane, I've said it before, it's swings and roundabouts, klavans should have been wiped off if VAR was used and also Milners in the first leg.

[Fierce_LiNk]

19 minutes ago, James said:

And Liverpool should have got one for a push on mane, I've said it before, it's swings and roundabouts, klavans should have been wiped off if VAR was used and also Milners in the first leg.

You could go back to the Man City game and look at numerous decisions there, too. I don't really believe in the whole "swings and roundabouts" thing as it's a bit of a cop-out tbh and all it does is justify and excuse poor refereeing. The referee, for whatever reason, chose not to give those decisions when (according to the rules) they should have. Those decisions change the course of matches and it has a knock-on effect. E.g. if the referee gives a penalty and sends a player off, it completely alters a team's performance and approach to the game. Two decisions aren't equal just because they're both penalties and "oh if they have one for this, then we should have one for that" etc. There's too many other factors to take into account too, such as the timing of that penalty (giving a penalty and a red card in the 1st minute is vastly different to a penalty and red card in the 91st minute, for example), so the swings and roundabouts logic is inherently flawed because it implies that two decisions are completely equal, when they could easily not be for a variety of factors.

Not saying that Liverpool didn't deserve to go through. It's good to have a British side there in the final. But, the refereeing behind them getting to that position really fucking sucks, is inexcusable and makes a mockery on the sport. In my opinion.

[Happenstance]

So does anyone know if the final will be stuck on BT Sport as well?

[Hero-of-Time]

The refs have been bad for many seasons, and that goes for every league. It's honestly got to the point where I just laugh it off. I mean, just look at the blatant handball in our game over the weekend. Nothing was given and that would have given us 3 points which would have all but secured our Champions League spot for next season. Another big decision was the tackle against Aguero at the Manchester derby. That should have been a pen and Ashley Young sent off. Instead nothing was given and City possibly could have won the league in that game.

You then get incidents where goals are allowed that shouldn't have stood, such as our goal against City that was offside. This is what I think James means when he talks about swings and roundabouts. Should it be this way? Not at all but the game has been like this for years and I can't see it changing. Sadly, for better or worse, luck plays a massive part of the game at times.

Also, let's not pretend that VAR is some kind of saviour in these situations. The tech has a long way to go to prove that it is actually going to work and influence games for the better.

[Julius]

21 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

So does anyone know if the final will be stuck on BT Sport as well?

I’ve just had a quick look around, and it doesn’t look like they’ve announced if/how it’ll be available to those who aren’t BT Sport subscribers. Seems a bit odd, given that they’ve had it - and the UEL final - up on BT Showcase, their own website/app, and on their YouTube channel for free to watch/stream in recent years.

Just have to wait and see what they say about it, I guess  if they’re going to do anything like they have in recent years again, maybe they’ll announce it tonight, once the UEL finalists are confirmed?