Anthem (PS4, Xbox One, PC)

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

Wow this thread was dead in the year or two before release, no one seemed to care about this game, but now it's one of the most active on the board. That's what bad publicity does I guess.

To be fair it happens with most games, I remember seeing the RDR2 thread I started resurrected from ages back once the game got closer to release.

Also you don't really need to have bought the full game to have an opinion on this, there is plenty of information/video coverage (and the demo) out there to form a reasonable opinion on the kind of game this is. Most of all though I am hearing over and over that this game is just incredibly dull and uninspired. I am getting the feeling from you that you're taking it personally and think the game is being witch hunted  or something, which is just not true. There are so many reviews out there that point out the problems with this game, either it's all a big conspiracy or there is merit to the negative press. It's not just that people love to hate on EA either - look at Apex Legends (EA published) that just came out. If it was a good game this conversation wouldn't be happening.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Sheikah

[Deathjam]

2 hours ago, Sheikah said:

To be fair it happens with most games, I remember seeing the RDR2 thread I started resurrected from ages back once the game got closer to release.

Also you don't really need to have bought the full game to have an opinion on this, there is plenty of information/video coverage (and the demo) out there to form a reasonable opinion on the kind of game this is. Most of all though I am hearing over and over that this game is just incredibly dull and uninspired. I am getting the feeling from you that you're taking it personally and think the game is being witch hunted  or something, which is just not true. There are so many reviews out there that point out the problems with this game, either it's all a big conspiracy or there is merit to the negative press. It's not just that people love to hate on EA either - look at Apex Legends (EA published) that just came out. If it was a good game this conversation wouldn't be happening.

I can see where Ronnie is coming from. With Destiny 1, 2 Division etc. a lot of the talk here wasn't based on reviews but people's disappointment from actually playing it. There was a mix too with some people, like myself, professing the enjoyment and willing to wait for improvements. And like those games, this game will live or die dependent on player base retention.

If everyone here is alienated without giving it a chance, or convinced against giving it a chance because others have done so, what are the chances of people coming back to play when the changes, improvements and general content updates have arrived. Considering that no one returned for Destiny 2, I would say very low. And it's sad because as I said before, the core gameplay is actually good. It is just surrounded by some poor design decisions which I do believe can be fixed or changed and Bioware have been very quick to respond in comments and updates unlike Bungie.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Deathjam

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Most of all though I am hearing over and over that this game is just incredibly dull and uninspired.

"incredibly dull and inspired"? lol, we must be looking in different places.

In fact it sounds like your original post after the E3 trailer, more than anything. Confirmation bias?

On 10/06/2018 at 1:24 PM, Sheikah said:

This trailer looked really generic, didn't excite me at all.

 

33 minutes ago, Deathjam said:

And it's sad because as I said before, the core gameplay is actually good. It is just surrounded by some design decisions which I do believe can be fixed or changed and Bioware have been very quick to respond in comments and updates unlike Bungie.

Absolutely. All the issues with the game are fixable, the core gameplay is incredibly fun and Bioware have been amazing to respond to feedback, questions and comments. Like you say, unlike Bungie.

[Hero-of-Time]

25 minutes ago, Deathjam said:

I can see where Ronnie is coming from. With Destiny 1, 2 Division etc. a lot of the talk here wasn't based on reviews but people's disappointment from actually playing it. There was a mix too with some people, like myself, professing the enjoyment and willing to wait for improvements. And like those games, this game will live or die dependent on player base retention.

If everyone here is alienated without giving it a chance, or convinced against giving it a chance because others have done so, what are the chances of people coming back to play when the changes, improvements and general content updates have arrived. Considering that no one returned for Destiny 2, I would say very low. And it's sad because as I said before, the core gameplay is actually good. It is just surrounded by some design decisions which I do believe can be fixed or changed and Bioware have been very quick to respond in comments and updates unlike Bungie.

The gaming industry is become more competitive every year when it comes to GaaS and FTP games. It's VERY important to get things right first time especially these days when more and more of these types of games are releasing. I mean, in just a couple of weeks time we have The Division 2 hitting store shelves.

People only have so much time and money and you can't expect them to pick up a game or stick with it just in the hope that things will get better down the line. Will people buy the game once fixes are made? Hard to say because the damage may have already been done and players will possibly be tied up with another game by then. 

I would have thought publishers would have looked at Destiny and learnt from that but it appears certain mistakes are being repeated.

It will be interesting to see how The Division 2 pans out. The first game struggled out of the gate but Ubisoft seem to have a magic touch for turning their games around ( Rainbow Six, Division, For Honor ). Had I still had PS+ I would have probably gave it a punt as I enjoyed the playing the first game with gmac, my nephew and Lostmario.

[Deathjam]

1 minute ago, Hero-of-Time said:

The gaming industry is become more competitive every year when it comes to GaaS and FTP games. It's VERY important to get things right first time especially these days when more and more of these types of games are releasing. I mean, in just a couple of weeks time we have The Division 2 hitting store shelves.

People only have so much time and money and you can't expect them to pick up a game or stick with it just in the hope that things will get better down the line. Will people buy the game once fixes are made? Hard to say because the damage may have already been done and players will possibly be tied up with another game by then. 

I would have thought publishers would have looked at Destiny and learnt from that but it appears certain mistakes are being repeated.

It will be interesting to see how The Division 2 pans out. The first game struggled out of the gate but Ubisoft seem to have a magic touch for turning their games around ( Rainbow Six, Division, For Honor ). Had I still had PS+ I would have probably gave it a punt as I enjoyed the playing the first game with gmac, my nephew and Lostmario.

Totally get that and agree with all those points. I feel as though, that we have such a robust means of updating these games now that things can be expected to be improved as time goes on. Warframe is a good and bad example of this. It's constantly evolving and expanding but in the past, for a large group of people, it was a waste of time and severely lacking on initial release. For others, it was all these things but promising and because it was free (on entry, there is no way that you would progress without spending money back in the day)  it was given time to grow and develop.

[Ike]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

"incredibly dull and inspired"? lol, we must be looking in different places.

In fact it sounds like your original post after the E3 trailer, more than anything. Confirmation bias?.

You know posts like this arn't helpful to your "cause".

[S.C.G]

Well, this video seems to sum up everything that has been talked about in this thread recently... or more accurately why this game is so talked about right now.

Because quite simply, it's more fun to talk about Anthem and everything surrounding it, than it is to play it.

Now this might not be true for everyone but I think it's definitely a relatable opinion at the very least.

[Kav]

I was underwhelmed by the demo so this isn’t all that surprising to me.

[Ronnie]

4 hours ago, S.C.G said:

Because quite simply, it's more fun to talk about Anthem and everything surrounding it, than it is to play it.

Are you playing it? Otherwise I don't see how you can make that statement.

I just played for two hours. I can assure you, it's way, way more fun to play Anthem than to talk about it.

[Sheikah]

Absolutely. All the issues with the game are fixable, the core gameplay is incredibly fun and Bioware have been amazing to respond to feedback, questions and comments. Like you say, unlike Bungie.

This game is intrinsically flawed; beyond the fact "javelins feel fun to fly", this game has pretty much nothing. The game has review bombed for good reason.

[S.C.G]

11 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Are you playing it? Otherwise I don't see how you can make that statement.

I just played for two hours. I can assure you, it's way, way more fun to play Anthem than to talk about it.

No, I'm not playing it. But I'll take your word for it that it's fun to play.

As I said before, I am happy that yourself and others are enjoying Anthem and in the interests of balanced opinion, there are some things which I like about it...

Again, this is just from what I've seen in the video footage but the hub area looks pretty well done where you interact with the NPC's, the character models look nice.

It's certainly ambitious in the main world area that you explore even if it is broken up by loading times, there's certainly scope there.

The suit-based flight mechanics look enjoyable but as I understand it, this is more used to merely get from A to B? Do you get the chance to engage in aerial combat?

From what I've seen, once you get into a battle, it's mostly ground-based, I was just thinking that if there were airborne enemies then that would mix things up a bit.

In fact, after doing a bit of research, I've just found this quote from a review...

"Given that Anthem allows you to combat opponents while flying around the battlefield, you might think there are dozens of enemies in the air. That’s not the case. Outside of floating wizards, the only flying enemies are fire-breathing wyverns. These aren’t enormous creatures reminiscent of Game of Thrones. They’re just regular-sized lizards with wings. This lack of air combat challenge and misuse of existing verticality mechanics show a design that wasn’t fully realized."

So perhaps this is something which can be improved upon in the future... if Bioware are listening to feedback then surely the game will only improve over time, I do hope so.

Currently though, it doesn't look like a product I could invest a decent amount of money in but I won't write off buying a copy down the line if things improve.

[Ronnie]

8 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

This game is intrinsically flawed

In what way. Specifics please.

Quote

this game has pretty much nothing.

Bullshit. Utter bullshit. You haven't even played it! And now you're making these claims as if you know what you're talking about. Enough with the passing off your own ignorant judgement as fact.

Quote

The game has review bombed for good reason.

6.5/10 on Metacritic is not review bombing. Especially for a live game that improves over time. Destiny 1 was a disaster at launch. Division was a disaster at launch. Diablo. etc.

Every single Anthem review will be out of date in a month, just as the No Man's Sky, Destiny 1, Splatoon etc original reviews are now obsolete.

[Ronnie]

Just now, S.C.G said:

The suit-based flight mechanics look enjoyable but as I understand it, this is more used to merely get from A to B? Do you get the chance to engage in aerial combat?

Aerial combat is basically what you should be doing. One of the javelin classes is pretty much exclusively for staying in the air in combat. I rarely stay on the ground when attacking, though I've seen plenty of people do that as well. Whatever style of play works for you I guess, either way the combat feels fantastic. It's true there aren't a ton of flying enemies, but I hadn't really thought of that before you mentioned it, and like you say it's something they can surely add with each new month of content drops, as community feedback grows.

[Deathjam]

4 hours ago, S.C.G said:

"Given that Anthem allows you to combat opponents while flying around the battlefield, you might think there are dozens of enemies in the air. That’s not the case. Outside of floating wizards, the only flying enemies are fire-breathing wyverns. These aren’t enormous creatures reminiscent of Game of Thrones. They’re just regular-sized lizards with wings. This lack of air combat challenge and misuse of existing verticality mechanics show a design that wasn’t fully realized."

So perhaps this is something which can be improved upon in the future... if Bioware are listening to feedback then surely the game will only improve over time, I do hope so.

It's funny but as Ronnie said, the lack of flying monster is not something I noticed, mainly because it's not something I am looking for. Flying monstrosities are annoying as heck to fight in most games. But it's a valid point.

To counter it, it's more of a tool for the player, the javelin, to use against the enemies. It's another dimension you can use to attack from and for one class, the Storm, it's imperative that you hover while in combat as you receive a bunch of bonuses for doing so. If you don't, you are actually playing that class wrong and will die very quickly. Other classes can hover and fly but not as long. Colossus, really is supposed to be on the ground being the tank, the bruiser of the team for example, but they can fly and jump just like the rest.

But yeah, it's no Zone of the Enders in aerial combat for example.

4 hours ago, Sheikah said:

This game is intrinsically flawed; beyond the fact "javelins feel fun to fly", this game has pretty much nothing. The game has review bombed for good reason.

Would have to disagree with saying the game has pretty much nothing except flying but agree that the flying is the actual unique part of the experience. Mass effect 3 and Andromeda share the combat mechanics, just not on such a scale or scope as here.

As for review bombing, it's obvious that the scores are not what was anticipated by EA or Bioware. Foolish really considering the issues and they way that they released it.

[Sheikah]

6.5/10 on Metacritic is not review bombing. Especially for a live game that improves over time. Destiny 1 was a disaster at launch. Division was a disaster at launch. Diablo. etc. Every single Anthem review will be out of date in a month, just as the No Man's Sky, Destiny 1, Splatoon etc original reviews are now obsolete.     

 

Ok looking back I was being a bit harsh. It's not so much that it has nothing, more that it has nothing special other than the javelins. I played the demo, have seen a handful of videos, and have read enough reviews to come to that conclusion. You can go look at almost any review and they will mention the well worn and derivative mission structure, providing examples of how so - this is something very off-putting to me, and I imagine most. Hit up Jim Sterling's videos for instance and note his comment that the game is more fun to talk about than play. That's basically how I felt after the demo. I don't feel I am unfair to criticise this game despite not actually owning it; particularly since the complaints I have are precisely why I don't own it.

 

Also, 6.0 on Metacritic (not 6.5 like you said) isn't a game bombing critically? I'd say in this day and age it is. Or at least has all the same effects of a game scoring badly. In a perfect world it wouldn't be, as 6.0 would mean above the middle point, but we all know the way games are scored today, and how they are perceived, means that this pretty much reads as poor. This is also considerably lower than the other live service games you mentioned.

 

You say that the reviews will be out of date in a month - I think it's more likely this game will be out of our thoughts in a month.

[Ronnie]

On 19/02/2019 at 2:04 PM, Dcubed said:

This game has bomba written all over it.

I'd be very surprised if Bioware don't get shut down by EA after this game's inevitable critical and commercial failure...

News just out, not so inevitable. It's #1 in the US according to NPD and the second highest sales of any Bioware game apart from ME3 (which itself had an extra 3 weeks it's in release month and was a beloved IP wrapping up). Numbers don't count digital PC sales either.

[Sheikah]

News just out, not so inevitable. It's #1 in the US according to NPD and the second highest sales of any Bioware game apart from ME3 (which itself had an extra 3 weeks it's in release month and was a beloved IP wrapping up). Numbers don't count digital PC sales either.

Not exactly an achievement when ME1 and 2 were launched at different times on the X360/PS3. There was also not exactly much else multiplatform launched in February (I can think of a non-numbered Far Cry spin off and another Metro game). It's fair to say that there wasn't anything people were really looking forward to. 

 

Factor in they dropped the price of Anthem to around £30 before it even launched and, well, you get my drift. This isn't really news.

 

Seeing as we're mentioning past quotes, what of you remarking that reviews won't be relevant in a month since it'll be different by then? Not a week goes by without more bad press about the game. This is a live service game that relies on player retention - let's see how popular it is in a year.

[Hero-of-Time]

8 hours ago, Ronnie said:

News just out, not so inevitable. It's #1 in the US according to NPD and the second highest sales of any Bioware game apart from ME3 (which itself had an extra 3 weeks it's in release month and was a beloved IP wrapping up). Numbers don't count digital PC sales either.

That's a good result for the game, especially given the negativity surrounding it. It will be interesting to see if the sales have legs.

This also highlights just how rough the gaming space is in the UK. Anthem reached the top of the charts when it launched but it sold very poorly and the same has been seen with Devil May Cry V. It went straight to number one but the sales were down when compared to other entries. 

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

That's a good result for the game, especially given the negativity surrounding it. It will be interesting to see if the sales have legs.

This also highlights just how rough the gaming space is in the UK. Anthem reached the top of the charts when it launched but it sold very poorly and the same has been seen with Devil May Cry V. It went straight to number one but the sales were down when compared to other entries. 

Yeah great result, have to say I was a little surprised.

The UK sales figures were physical only I thought, and given this is a GaaS I imagine a big chunk of its sales will be digital? Hell my copy is and I almost always go physical for AAA games. The boxed copy of the game will be obsolete from day 1 so why bother really. It's different for a game like Andromeda which is just a one and done single player campaign.

[Sheikah]

3 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Yeah great result, have to say I was a little surprised.

The UK sales figures were physical only I thought, and given this is a GaaS I imagine a big chunk of its sales will be digital? Hell my copy is and I almost always go physical for AAA games. The boxed copy of the game will be obsolete from day 1 so why bother really. It's different for a game like Andromeda which is just a one and done single player campaign.

The boxed copy was selling for 30 quid, I would bet a lot of the sales would have been physical.

[Ronnie]

7 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

The boxed copy was selling for 30 quid, I would bet a lot of the sales would have been physical.

It's still selling for £43/£48 on Amazon for the standard edition. It might have been 30 on some site for a short amount of time but it's doubtful that tipped the scales much. This is a live service game that suits digital more than most titles. Which makes it a shame that PC sales weren't counted in those already great NPD numbers.

[Sheikah]

28 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

It's still selling for £43/£48 on Amazon for the standard edition. It might have been 30 on some site for a short amount of time but it's doubtful that tipped the scales much. This is a live service game that suits digital more than most titles. Which makes it a shame that PC sales weren't counted in those already great NPD numbers.

It might be more now (35 quid by my brief searching, don't use Amazon) but just before release it was even less at multiple places. As we know a large proportion of copies sell at launch.

Anthem is 60 quid (!!!) on PSN, and was close to 30 physical right before launch. I find it difficult to believe that anyone but the most lazy/ignorant would have kept their digital preorder. Obviously some people did, I just can't imagine there would be many.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

16 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Anthem is 60 quid (!!!) on PSN, and was close to 30 right before launch. I find it difficult to believe that anyone but the most lazy/ignorant would have kept their digital preorder. Obviously some people did, I just can't imagine there would be many.

Nothing to do with laziness, I went with a digital copy on my Xbox. If any game suits digital over retail it's a live service game that's constantly changing and relies on servers to be running to work. The retail copy was out of date (like most reviews) from day 1.

Anyway the point is the a game like Anthem will have a higher percentage of digital sales than a game like God of War or Red Dead.

You can find keys to digital copies for £35 online, so proving my point that digital will be higher, but it's £43/£48 on Amazon for consoles.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

24 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Nothing to do with laziness, I went with a digital copy on my Xbox. If any game suits digital over retail it's a live service game that's constantly changing and relies on servers to be running to work. The retail copy was out of date (like most reviews) from day 1.

Anyway the point is the a game like Anthem will have a higher percentage of digital sales than a game like God of War or Red Dead.

You can find keys to digital copies for £35 online, so proving my point that digital will be higher, but it's £43/£48 on Amazon for consoles.

What difference does it make about it being out of date, you buy a disc or download it, you're still downloading the same file size off the internet. They both take up the same storage space on the hard drive.

I'm pretty sure most people, if informed of one being 30 quid and the other 60, would definitely go for the 30 quid option. I get that some people will pay for the convenience of not having to get up every once in a while to swap discs but I find it hard to believe most would pay double the price just for that convenience.

I disagree fundamentally with your point that more people would buy Anthem digitally versus Red Dead. Normally maybe, but the price discrepancy between formats here means nothing but ultra laziness or being simply unaware would mean people would opt for digital in this instance.

[Ronnie]

1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

What difference does it make about it being out of date, you buy a disc or download it, you're still downloading the same file size off the internet. They both take up the same storage space on the hard drive.

I'm pretty sure most people, if informed of one being 30 quid and the other 60, would definitely go for the 30 quid option. I get that some people will pay for the convenience of not having to get up every once in a while to swap discs but I find it hard to believe most would pay double the price just for that convenience.

I disagree fundamentally with your point that more people would buy Anthem digitally versus Red Dead. Normally maybe, but the price discrepancy between formats here means nothing but ultra laziness or being simply unaware would mean people would opt for digital in this instance.

And I think about half a percent of people who bought it at launch bought it at that £30 retail version you keep mentioning. The vast majority of sales will have either been £45-50 retail or £60 digital.

The fact that you can buy digital codes for £35 for PC shows the game performed even better than NPD is suggesting because digital PC sales aren't counted.