Fierce_LiNk

The Trump Presidency

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So...what do we make of the latest stuff regarding his comments about "shithole countries"? 

On a humorous note, it's unbelievable how many times I've heard the word shit on the news in the last week. It just doesn't feel like real life, but as if we're in an episode of South Park. 

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Noone of importance should use that word about other countries. That's just bad manners.

 

However, I do get what he means. And I hate that others think it's racism. It's clearly a statement regarding the general state of those countries, education, infrastructure, mentality, and nothing about the skin colour of the people.

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Just now, MindFreak said:

Noone of importance should use that word about other countries. That's just bad manners.

 

However, I do get what he means. And I hate that others think it's racism. It's clearly a statement regarding the general state of those countries, education, infrastructure, mentality, and nothing about the skin colour of the people.

But by demeaning these countries, he's belittling the people who live there. I would class it as racist as he's using derogatory remarks to "put down" these people. There's an excellent quote here that I completely agree with:

Quote

The UN human rights spokesman, Rupert Colville, told a Geneva news briefing: “There is no other word one can use but racist. You cannot dismiss entire countries and continents as ‘shitholes’, whose entire populations, who are not white, are therefore not welcome.”

 

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But racism is demeaning the people because of their skin-colour or "race" (I don't like to destinguish between white, black, and Asian people by using the word race as they are all the same race), thinking that you are above them. 

In this instance, he said "Why do we get people from shitholes like Kenya and Haiti and not from countries like Norway". Norway is an developed country, Kenya and Haiti are not and that's what (I believe) he's referring to. I agree that he is belittling the people in the other countries and they have every right to be angry. I just don't see it as racism at all, more of an insult to those countries in general, the population being black or white doesn't change anything.

Funny thing, it's the very quote from UN that I disagree with. :p

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I agree with MindFreak, I don’t see it as entirely a race thing. Now I wholly believe that trump is racist. He was probably being racist to a great extent, but I’d like to believe it’s an infrastructure thing more than a race thing.

People from countries that can’t get their act together. (Never mind the fact that many countries are purposely destabilized by other “nonshithole” countries). 

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There's no way it was an infrastructure thing. He didn't criticise the countries, their economies, their human right records, etc. He was clearly taking issue with people from those places coming to the US. His question was an exasperated "Why's the US accepting these people?", not an inquiry into their placements in the Human Development Index.

If he actually was thinking of infrastructure, then his comment becomes "Why are people living in terrible conditions migrating here?", which even for him is a stupid question.

(And to be honest, I'd be surprised if Trump even knew anything about Haiti besides "Haitians are black")

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Arguably, calling a country a shithole is in fact criticizing the country. He didn’t go into detail, so of course he isn’t going to cite human rights or economies. 

The racist part is him assuming that people from those countries are inherently bad. And that is him being a bigoted racist. 

Look on a citywide scale instead. Most cities definitely have bad neighborhoods. Plenty of people describe the areas as being shitty, and they aren’t really wrong. It’s not about the race of the residents. It’s about the area. Detroit is a shithole, I still know great people that live there. Flint is a shithole. Very poor and can’t even get clean water, still has good people living there. 

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39 minutes ago, Nolan said:

The racist part is him assuming that people from those countries are inherently bad. And that is him being a bigoted racist.

Yeah, that's pretty much the core of it.

39 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Arguably, calling a country a shithole is in fact criticizing the country. He didn’t go into detail, so of course he isn’t going to cite human rights or economies. 

Look on a citywide scale instead. Most cities definitely have bad neighborhoods. Plenty of people describe the areas as being shitty, and they aren’t really wrong. It’s not about the race of the residents. It’s about the area. Detroit is a shithole, I still know great people that live there. Flint is a shithole. Very poor and can’t even get clean water, still has good people living there. 

I feel like a lot of the weight of the comment is put on how crass he was, when it's actually more about the tone and context. There's a difference between "Poor Steve, he has to live in a shithole like Flint" and "Yeah, why did we hire someone from a shithole?". The word itself is unimportant, when only one of these sentences shows inherent contempt for the person.

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I do love how we're essentially discussing the difference between racism and xenophobia, as if one is somehow better than the other.

 

The leader of the most powerful country in the world is a total cunt. But first, lets debate exactly what sort of specific cunt he is.

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21 minutes ago, Goafer said:

I do love how we're essentially discussing the difference between racism and xenophobia, as if one is somehow better than the other.

 

The leader of the most powerful country in the world is a total cunt. But first, lets debate exactly what sort of specific cunt he is.

Well frankly he’s both racist and xenophobic. And he sadly represents a large subset of the US population. It’s a “we got ours, fuck the rest” mindset, it’s also a mindset that the US is the greatest country in the world. Freedom this freedom that, unless you disagree with my idea of freedom, then I just hope you die. Locked in a political civil war where we can’t even have a reasonable discussion.

Frankly I kind of hate this place and it’s jingoist bullshit. I work with, hell am related to the types of idiots that voted trump and think he’s the bees knees making America great again. Their ideal of whats great is skewed though, they have this image of Cold War America. Economically viable, anyone can get a job at a real wage and buy two cars and a house. I don’t think we can ever reach that ideal again. Not with the way the world works.

I feel like I’m ranting in a non-conducive manner. So I’ll stop there. 

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On 1/14/2018 at 9:18 PM, Nolan said:

 

Well frankly he’s both racist and xenophobic. And he sadly represents a large subset of the US population. It’s a “we got ours, fuck the rest” mindset, it’s also a mindset that the US is the greatest country in the world. Freedom this freedom that, unless you disagree with my idea of freedom, then I just hope you die. Locked in a political civil war where we can’t even have a reasonable discussion.

Frankly I kind of hate this place and it’s jingoist bullshit. I work with, hell am related to the types of idiots that voted trump and think he’s the bees knees making America great again. Their ideal of whats great is skewed though, they have this image of Cold War America. Economically viable, anyone can get a job at a real wage and buy two cars and a house. I don’t think we can ever reach that ideal again. Not with the way the world works.

I feel like I’m ranting in a non-conducive manner. So I’ll stop there. 

Pretty off topic, but I have a question. Was America ever really like that? Was it ever actually the land of opportunity, or has there always been a massive inequality of opportunities?

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1 hour ago, MoogleViper said:

Pretty off topic, but I have a question. Was America ever really like that? Was it ever actually the land of opportunity, or has there always been a massive inequality of opportunities?

I don’t know exactly, but I do know post WWI we had unprecedented growth through the 20s. I’m sure there was still poverty but most people were able to grasp at the American Dream. 

Post WWII was similar but different. We kept our economy rolling along with the war machine (Korea Vietnam) and it was true then that basically anyone with some drive could leave home at 18, find a job and buy a home and support a family on single income. That I think is the ideal people want back. But low/stagnant wages and rising cost of everything plus inflation, our dollar literally doesn’t go as far as it used to. 

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I don’t know exactly, but I do know post WWI we had unprecedented growth through the 20s. I’m sure there was still poverty but most people were able to grasp at the American Dream. 
Post WWII was similar but different. We kept our economy rolling along with the war machine (Korea Vietnam) and it was true then that basically anyone with some drive could leave home at 18, find a job and buy a home and support a family on single income. That I think is the ideal people want back. But low/stagnant wages and rising cost of everything plus inflation, our dollar literally doesn’t go as far as it used to. 
What you're saying is you need a nice war to keep you going?
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On 1/14/2018 at 4:18 PM, Nolan said:

 

Well frankly he’s both racist and xenophobic. And he sadly represents a large subset of the US population. It’s a “we got ours, fuck the rest” mindset, it’s also a mindset that the US is the greatest country in the world. Freedom this freedom that, unless you disagree with my idea of freedom, then I just hope you die. Locked in a political civil war where we can’t even have a reasonable discussion.

Frankly I kind of hate this place and it’s jingoist bullshit. I work with, hell am related to the types of idiots that voted trump and think he’s the bees knees making America great again. Their ideal of whats great is skewed though, they have this image of Cold War America. Economically viable, anyone can get a job at a real wage and buy two cars and a house. I don’t think we can ever reach that ideal again. Not with the way the world works.

I feel like I’m ranting in a non-conducive manner. So I’ll stop there. 

This post is 2-1/2 years old, and that first paragraph for anyone that didn’t believe it then look at how Covid and just wearing masks has been politicized....

 

Anywho just bumping this because I received a mail in flyer imploring me that trump needs me to apply for an absentee ballot to vote for him. This is literally stunning to me. For a couple different reasons. 
 

Firstly, he has been fiercely against mail-in voting and calls it a hotbed of fraudulent votes, the poster has a quote of him saying absentee ballots are fine because they require a precise process to get your voting rights. Just absurd. 
 

Secondly, I live in Michigan, our Governor has already months ago decided to mail out applications for absentee voting to all registered voters (due to the pandemic). Trump had a Twitter hissy fit over this and also incorrectly assumed she was sending ballots to everyone. He was and has been extremely disrespectful towards Governor Whitmer calling her “That Woman in Michigan” and the applications was just another step in his hate towards her. 

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1 hour ago, Nolan said:

Firstly, he has been fiercely against mail-in voting and calls it a hotbed of fraudulent votes, the poster has a quote of him saying absentee ballots are fine because they require a precise process to get your voting rights. Just absurd.

It’s quite funny watching him talk about stuff like this, clearly he’s just setting up some excuse so that if he loses he can question the results and stop proper process from happening.

I think most worrying in all of this is that the democrats don’t seem to have learnt their lesson from the last election. In Joe Biden they may well have found that one person that Trump actually stands a more than even chance of winning against. That combined with the way Trump has made everything them vs us puts him in pretty good standing to win the upcoming election. Unfortunately, I expect just that.

 

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It's fascinating (in a horrifying sort of way) to imagine just what Trump will pull out of his backside to decredit a loss if it does happen for him.

Because if there's one thing I can guarantee he can't do, it's take losing graciously.

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The actual Axios interview is just....unbelievable. Starting with the HBO ident amuses me greatly amuses me too as my own HBO consumptions have been high drama or pure comedy 🤣

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I watched it last night and just....wow. 

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That guy is still polling above 40% across America too. 

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