EU Referendum - In/Out?

[S.C.G]

I hope that this does not cause a ripple effect across the whole of the EU and @Ashley does not have to change the name of the site to http://www.n-ukandeurope.com or http://www.n-28countries.com or something.

 

I always took the Europe in N-E to be a reflection of the way in which games have been released in different territories for years... USA - Japan - Europe (Including the U.K) and Australia so I would have thought that we won't have to change the site name at least.

 

Besides, we have an excellent community here on the forums which I hope isn't suddenly going to change as a result of this vote.

 

My feelings on the matter is that whichever way the vote happened to go, it wouldn't change how I feel about the site and the members of our forum; personally I love this site along with everyone here who makes the place what it is.

 

Nothing political or otherwise will change this and I just hope that this outcome will turn out to be a positive one for everyone in time.

[Blade]

There won't be, which a lot of Leave voters will be disappointed about. Immigration massively helps our country.

 

100% agree. We need to show willingness to sign up to the internal market with freedom of movement immediately.

[Agent Gibbs]

The condescending responses on here toward the people who voted Out are exactly the reason so many people did vote Out. There's a massive number of people, and you can see they are mainly from working class and lower middle class communities, who feel totally betrayed by the political establishment - this is the backlash, and it's well deserved and long over due!

 

And if that's the case its disgusting that the two campaigns have drummed up this animosity between people and resulted in a protest vote that will in the end only hurt us

 

The thing I think is its been twisted, the working class is better off in Europe, already with the falling pound it will hit the working man, it will affect imports and exports, the exchange rate for currency is already massively effected, our albeit crappy prime minister is leaving with Borris the front runner - a man who has supports privatisation of the NHS.

 

But I do agree, I feel utterly betrayed by the political 'elite', we've gone very Americanised with our politics in that we've become polarised, we are either utterly left or utterly right, the central ground (arguably the best ground) is now a wasteland and minefield where both sides criticise anyone for taking a either xenophobic/racist or as a head in the sand champagne socialist.

This punch and judy esq politics is toxic and creates almost like a football hooligan like support of parties - its why after the conservatives were re-eleceted we had the liberal 'elite' rampaging across London saying how the Tories would cause riots and anarchy.....ignoring the irony and how they were acting like spoilt children.

 

This should never have been about Us vs Them, and as much as I voted Remain, the remain campaign made it that more than anyone, they chose to draw a line in the sand and say anyone over it was racist! its disgusting! what happens if you tell a child not to do something? they do it? its the same effect here "all who disagree with us are racist!" I'm a labour supporter and I'm sick of that current tactic employed by the left, a drive to shame people into compliance with their views!

the Remain campaign should have avoided that and focused on the benefits of the EU and all the good it did for us, whilst correcting any mistruths by the leave camp - instead hatred.

 

All in all though I would like to ask that people stop calling leave voters racist, they aren't they are genuinely concerned for our country and made a choice, it might not be the one I made, it might be the wrong choice, but they are not racist for it! Save your anger for the campaigns

 

As for the backtracking on the NHS funding...that's pissed me off more than anything, a friend of mine, used to be my best friend has fallen out with her sister and brother in law over this vote; She voted to leave because as a care worker she believed the saved money would go to the NHS as the leave campaign said, now she's gonna wake up this morning to find out her camp won, but her reason to vote that way was a pack of lies and has hurt her family because of it

 

I really hope I don't end up saying I told you so, I really want to be wrong now we've voted this way, because the alternative is I get to say it whilst being fucked over

[gaggle64]

Well, this was fun. Do we want another Scottish Independence referendum or do the Irish Reunification thing next?

 

There won't be, which a lot of Leave voters will be disappointed about. Immigration massively helps our country.

 

Even if Farage was given immediate absolute power immigration wouldn't fall anywhere near what Leave voters might hope for: businesses of every size would be screaming at his door not to.

[peterl0]

I always took the Europe in N-E to be a reflection of the way in which games have been released in different territories for years... USA - Japan - Europe (Including the U.K) and Australia so I would have thought that we won't have to change the site name at least.

 

Besides, we have an excellent community here on the forums which I hope isn't suddenly going to change as a result of this vote.

 

My feelings on the matter is that whichever way the vote happened to go, it wouldn't change how I feel about the site and the members of our forum; personally I love this site along with everyone here who makes the place what it is.

 

Nothing political or otherwise will change this and I just hope that this outcome will turn out to be a positive one for everyone in time.

 

I was only joking about the name change. I feel the same way.

[Kav]

...Highly doubt it works like that. You can't just pick and choose what you like.

 

I've not suggested how it works, nor said we just "pick and choose" what we like.

I mean that, as a part of a severance package and the agreements with the EU within, if we can stay in the Single Market then it would be good.

 

Of course deals will have to be struck for things to happen. I've not suggested otherwise.

[Daft]

EU Referendum: Cornwall plea to replace EU millions

 

Cllr Tim Dwelly, leader of the Labour Group at Cornwall Council, said: "This is a disaster for Cornwall. Years of special EU funding for Cornwall are going to end.

 

"That funding has given us fibre broadband, a university, superb sixth form colleges, dual carriageways, airport investment, rail improvement, support for farmers and all kinds of business."

[sumo73]

There won't be, which a lot of Leave voters will be disappointed about. Immigration massively helps our country.

 

I agree there won't be any real change in immigration in fact in the run up to the UK leaving there is likely to be an increase in EU immigration before we leave the EU.

 

I posted earlier about the removal of the migrant impact fund and the fact that some businesses here undercut local wages by allowing foreign labour in and paying them less money. Regardless of wherever someone comes from they need to be paid the same going rate. I believe that the migrant impact fund should be reintroduced and an end to undercutting practices.

 

The bigger question is how to do as a society co-exist with other people, how do we improve social cohesion and no one behind?

Edited June 24, 2016 by sumo73

[Agent Gibbs]

Having read @Nicktendo post again he makes a great post further expanding on what I touch upon about polarising of politics - specifically neoliberalism, if you look to America they have always had a relative extreme right wing, however the left has done the same and become this neoliberal fascism, where you agree wholeheartedly with their view or they are willing to dog pile people into submission.

 

I'm not sure what happened with it, its been a steady erosion of 'common sense' to move further and further apart from our fellow man, the road of finding compromise has been shunned in favour of converting people to their ideologies and then making the opposing sides stance and beliefs illegal.

 

Jeremy Corbyn is unfortunately an example of this sort of stuff, he was always on the fringe of the labour party, voting against them most of the time, and has openly courted communism and acceptance of all including terrorists (Palestine etc). its obviously all born out of the idealistic view that we should all be able to talk out or issues with no exception, but it is idealistic as that simply can only work if the opposing side believes that too.

But he was the extreme of the Labour party, a party that's always been just left of centre on the political spectrum, however over the years a subtle move steadily left has occurred, concessions and moves that have now made him the leader - a man considered to be an extremist within his own party.

[sumo73]

Well, this was fun. Do we want another Scottish Independence referendum or do the Irish Reunification thing next?

 

 

 

Even if Farage was given immediate absolute power immigration wouldn't fall anywhere near what Leave voters might hope for: businesses of every size would be screaming at his door not to.

 

 

A Scottish referendum was on the cards regardless of the EU vote. I don't see any Irish reunification in either the short or medium term however. The conditions on the island of Ireland are very different to those in Scotland.

Edited June 24, 2016 by sumo73

[Dcubed]

You do not know this.

 

But okay apparently im racist as I voted out.

 

Its the righteous statements like that which had turned this referendum not about the EU but about the establishment v working class people. Its horrible statements like you have made that has divided this country. It is statements like that which incite anger. It is statements like that which shows that a large proportion of the remain side were not advocates of tolerance and respect at all.

 

What matters now is not about the result but how the government and parliament deals with it.

 

 

 

Again, I am disgusted by this!!

 

What a load of bollocks!

 

I'm not saying that all people who voted to Leave are racist, of course that's absurd (one would think that the hyperbole in what I said was obvious). But racist propaganda has played a huge role in this decision and scaremongering tactics (yes on both sides) has given us the result we have today. It paints a pretty sorrowful picture here.

 

It also paints a very grim picture for our foreseeable future, with the extreme right being granted a massive opportunity for gains here.

[Jon]

A Scottish referendum was on the cards regardless of the EU vote. I don't see an Irish reunification in either the short or medium term however. The conditions in the island of Ireland are very different to those in Scotland.

 

No it wasn't. We voted overwhelmingly that we wanted to stay as part of the UK and EU. Without this verdict, another independence referendum would not be happening anytime soon.

 

Would they win another referendum? Who knows. No one wants to have the euro and you can bet your arse that England won't allow us to use the pound. Also bearing in mind if we become independent we will also have to re-enter the EU, which is not a quick process. We'll have an eu customs border between Scotland and England. It's not necessarily a given that independence would occur.

[Serebii]

I really don't think many people realise how much EU funding comes into the UK for various things. That is my main concern about us now leaving.

 

We've said "we want out", but they haven't put forward any ideas on how we will be when we are out.

 

This is my concern about this. As someone with prolonged medical issues, as does my partner, I'm concerned that the NHS is going to buckle because money has to come from somewhere and there are going to be cuts and tax rises across the board to offset the withdrawal of EU funding in areas such as science, architecture etc.

 

I do hope my concerns are unjustified

[Dcubed]

I really don't think many people realise how much EU funding comes into the UK for various things. That is my main concern about us now leaving.

 

We've said "we want out", but they haven't put forward any ideas on how we will be when we are out.

 

This is my concern about this. As someone with prolonged medical issues, as does my partner, I'm concerned that the NHS is going to buckle because money has to come from somewhere and there are going to be cuts and tax rises across the board to offset the withdrawal of EU funding in areas such as science, architecture etc.

 

I do hope my concerns are unjustified

 

As someone who is looking to make a career change to move into working in the NHS very shortly, I'm fucking terrified right now!

[sumo73]

No it wasn't. We voted overwhelmingly that we wanted to stay as part of the UK and EU. Without this verdict, another independence referendum would not be happening anytime soon.

 

Would they win another referendum? Who knows. No one wants to have the euro and you can bet your arse that England won't allow us to use the pound. Also bearing in mind if we become independent we will also have to re-enter the EU, which is not a quick process. We'll have an eu customs border between Scotland and England. It's not necessarily a given that independence would occur.

 

 

For me when you have the SNP in power then they would always push for independence regardless of the EU vote. It's their core belief. Even straight after the Scottish referendum back in 2014 the SNP talked again about another referendum.

 

This is from their 2016 manifesto -

"In the next parliament, we will try to get the Scottish people to agree that being an independent country is the best option for our country. We will listen to the people who voted No in 2014 and we hope to change their minds".

 

This is from their 2015 manifesto-

"The same principle underpins our continued support for independence and was at the heart of our campaign for a Yes vote in September 2014."

 

In regards to Scotland using the pound and that England would not allow them to use it, of course that could happen but Scotland could use a different currency and peg it to the pound. The republic of Ireland used to peg it's currency to the pound in the past so it can work. Jim Sillars (ex SNP deputy leader) has spoken about this (Plan B) previously.

 

Regardless of the EU results expect to see Nicola Sturgeon popping up on your TV a lot now regardless of where you live in the UK but the SNP voice must not be the only voice coming from Scotland.

Edited June 24, 2016 by sumo73

[Serebii]

Motion of no confidence issuedby Labour MPs for Jeremy Corbyn

Prime Minister stepping down

World markets in freefall

Scotland talking about a second referendum for independence

Ireland wanting to reunite with Northern Ireland for them to stay in the EU

Pokémon Sun & Moon is STILL releasing on November 23rd here.

 

Yeah this was totally a good idea.

[bob]

Yeah but we sure stuck it to those goons in Brussels!

[Blade]

A very good article here:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/eu-vote-uk-diminished-politics-poisoned-racism

 

Especially comments about how both campaigns failed to grasp what was happening.

[Agent Gibbs]

For me when you have the SNP in power then they would always push for independence regardless of the EU vote. It's their core belief. Even straight after the Scottish referendum back in 2014 the SNP talked again about another referendum.

 

This is from their 2016 manifesto -

"In the next parliament, we will try to get the Scottish people to agree that being an independent country is the best option for our country. We will listen to the people who voted No in 2014 and we hope to change their minds".

 

This is from their 2015 manifesto-

"The same principle underpins our continued support for independence and was at the heart of our campaign for a Yes vote in September 2014."

 

In regards to Scotland using the pound and that England would not allow them to use it, of course that could happen but Scotland could use a different currency and peg it to the pound. The republic of Ireland used to peg it's currency to the pound in the past so it can work. Jim Sillars (ex SNP deputy leader) has spoken about this (Plan B) previously.

 

Regardless of the EU results expect to see Nicola Sturgeon popping up on your TV a lot now regardless of where you live in the UK but the SNP voice must not be the only voice coming from Scotland.

 

Sturegon has already said she wants to push for independence now

 

Nicola Sturgeon said it was "democratically unacceptable" that Scotland faced the prospect of being taken out of the EU against its will.

 

Well I'd argue she doesn't understand democracy, her people voted to remain in the UK despite the prospect of the EU referendum, a referendum which saw exceptionally high voter turnout nationally, in which the people (who she is elected by) voted for this 52% to 48% - whilst the percentage was 62% 38% in Scotland that is a democratic process, and one she should respect else she'll look even more like an idiot on a soap box complaining she didn't get here way

[Blade]

As much as I detest the Tories and Cameron I am angry with him resigning.

 

He started this yet he just fucks off!

[Daft]

I don't really see how he could remain. Kind of thought it was a given he would go. He's been trying so hard to get a better deal for the UK in Europe, he used this referendum as a tool precisely for that...and it blew up in his face. Of course he's going. He's revealed himself to be the tactless, out of touch cunt that he so obviously was but so many people refused to see.

 

Dangerously incompetent, that's the Tories through and through.

[bob]

Don't worry, Gove is on his way.

[killthenet]

It just all seems so surreal. In the short term at least the country has been thrown into absolute chaos. It's so ridiculous to me that people seem to have voted out of the the EU in part as a protest vote against the austerity measures of the Conservative government, because in all likelihood now the economy is going to take big hit and further cuts will probably be imposed.

 

Vince Cable pointed out last night that there will be years of legal wrangling as the UK has to set up it's own alternatives to the many positive laws and regulations that the EU has agreed and amended over its history. Our legal system has evolved and grown around EU laws and regulations that will now have to be assessed and amended. It's like baking a cake, then trying to remove and replace the sugar once its finished baking.

 

What will happen to all of the EU citizens who currently live in the UK? Obviously they won't all be required to leave, but in all likelihood they will be required to apply for visas and UK citizenship, which again will create an enormous strain on our already overloaded and underfunded councils and government organisations and cause a great deal of stress for the millions of EU citizens whose future in the UK will seem uncertain. The expected lack of public funding will only further cement the Conservative ideology that privatisation is the answer, which will lead to a further dismantling of frontline NHS services and reliance on charities.

 

Looking at a breakdown of the voting, younger voters chose overwhelmingly to Remain, while pensioners voted overwhelmingly to Leave. People who will only be around for another 15 or 20 years have sent the country into chaos for future generations that would rather be in the EU than out of it.

 

I feel so isolated now, I suffer from severe panic disorder and agoraphobia so I'm unable to even make it to my local shops, I would love to move to Scotland or to Germany, but my illness makes this impossible. As much as the majority of Leave voters may not be xenophobic, the decision to leave the EU and become more insular will only stoke the flames of fear of foreign people and cultures. I'm incredibly worried that the growing support for far right parties throughout the UK will only become more amplified over the next few years.

 

I hope that I'm wrong, and the country does become stronger economically and culturally, but it's very difficult to try and be optimistic after such a hammer blow of a result.

[Daft]

Don't worry, Gove is on his way.

 

[Charlie]

 

Well I'd argue she doesn't understand democracy, her people voted to remain in the UK despite the prospect of the EU referendum, a referendum which saw exceptionally high voter turnout nationally, in which the people (who she is elected by) voted for this 52% to 48% - whilst the percentage was 62% 38% in Scotland that is a democratic process, and one she should respect else she'll look even more like an idiot on a soap box complaining she didn't get here way

 

I laughed when she said that part.

 

It doesn't change the fact that there is a clear mandate for a second Scottish independence referendum though. Something very big has clearly changed and I imagine a lot of people are swithering who were No before.