The mexican standoff (test drive)

[jayseven]

@Cube I think that so long as there is a predescribed list of variables it wouldn't be an issue. Most custom roles are dependent on a set range of variables - so in this dreamworld, there would be a way for GMs to concoct custom roles -- and with an understanding of said set of variables they could even be inspired and create new roles!

 

But in any case, if there were tools to create a style of game which would all be considered 'vanilla' (i.e. based on the options presented by the toolset) there would still be a good range. 'Flavour' could be easily added.

 

The toolset could range from simple vote counting (as done by mafiascum) up to casting night actions. I don't see why this would be impossible.

 

And if smeagol here has a heart for it, potentially profitable :P (but the alternative is... using just text, or using the steam game he found :P)

[Sméagol]

I suppose another problem is the amount of custom roles people have in games, as well as people not using the exact wording, would make it even more difficult to implement.

Exactly, which was why I used HRHR as a starting point. Everyone had exactly the same role / ability, except some were town and some mafia. Easy to implement. If you start doing more normal set-ups, you either have to build a dedicated site / script for each set-up, or go beyond that, and build a site / script that can be customised for most normal set-ups you can think of. In other words, one where you can choose per game which roles / abilities players will have per game.

 

On mafia scum, they are pretty entrenched in traditional mafia flavour, with tradional roles which are expected to behave a certain way. Here we do things differently, and remix roles much more. We think more in terms of abilities then roles. A set-up with a doctor, cop, and some mafia and town vanillas, is not something you'd see here, except for one experiment by @Yvonne. So one catch-all script / site is pretty hard to do.

[Cube]

I'll speak to Shorty tomorrow about possibilities. I can also see about sorting a few things out to make it easier for game hosts, too.

[MoogleViper]

I'm learning PHP / MYSQL now, and that's definitely better for me as an exercise,

 

I'm currently learning SQL (DB2) for my job so I'd be interested in seeing your script if you wouldn't mind sharing. Obviously will understand if you want to keep it private.

[Sméagol]

I'd assume that assigning [] tags would be relatively straightforward in general but I'm not a coder so I literally have no idea how vbulletin works, which means it's easy for me to sit here and hypothesise about dream mechanics for mafia-based games.

 

I'd personally love to have a bunch of game-mechanic forum tools to play with. There could be all sorts of games devised from that kind of thing!

It probably is, but I have no experience with existing forum software. But it will be purely cosmetic, and have no real advantage over just using bold tags. It starts to get interesting when you can apply game logic to tags, but that's harder to do. Forum packages like this one are not built to cater to forum games, they need extensive modding. Databases need to be modded.

@Cube I think that so long as there is a predescribed list of variables it wouldn't be an issue. Most custom roles are dependent on a set range of variables - so in this dreamworld, there would be a way for GMs to concoct custom roles -- and with an understanding of said set of variables they could even be inspired and create new roles!

 

But in any case, if there were tools to create a style of game which would all be considered 'vanilla' (i.e. based on the options presented by the toolset) there would still be a good range. 'Flavour' could be easily added.

 

The toolset could range from simple vote counting (as done by mafiascum) up to casting night actions. I don't see why this would be impossible.

 

And if smeagol here has a heart for it, potentially profitable :P (but the alternative is... using just text, or using the steam game he found :P)

See my reply to Cube, it's more complicated than that, especially if you want it to cater to players here, we do things differently. Sure, if you want the vanilla experience, that's less hard to do, but we remix our roles here much more than they do. There can be so many variations with different intricacies. I really had to think about it, and break abilities down to the core concepts for the riot mafia. That's the only way to make something all (or most) encompassing. Definitely not impossible, but I don't want to trudge through existing code (which I don't understand) to add my own stuff, so that's why I prefer building a dedicated site for it.

 

I'm currently learning SQL (DB2) for my job so I'd be interested in seeing your script if you wouldn't mind sharing. Obviously will understand if you want to keep it private.

No problem, but it's a mess though . Just coded until I got the result I wanted, but some queries are unnecesary (or rather, they should be moved up, or implemented as joins in other queries. But I'm a single user, so I can use all the queries I want, as long as I get the data I want.

 

How / where do you want it? (the code I mean, not

).

Do you want the PHP though? What exactly do you want to see?

 

Edit: also keep in mind I'm using MySQL.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Sméagol
Automerged Doublepost

[jayseven]

I guess I need to check out mafia games for the last 18 months to see how it's varied. Database alterations for what post within a thread says [x] in bold (if need be) are only going to be hinged on how vb works. I don't know enough about how coding works to see how it would be a problem - but I work with far buggier platforms day-to-day and my lovely IT dept's motto is "anything is possible".

 

I won't pretend to be an expert, but essentially coding a plug-in to reduce the 'figuring out' GMs have to do is possible. The write-ups are always unique per game, so I'm not suggesting automating that. I'm thinking more about the input of actions selected by players and the calculations that this may require. A flavourful write-up can be done based upon the outcome of the calculations.

 

Equally, automation of the process can ensure timeframes are adhered to and that players get notifications of deadlines -- perhaps via facebook if they allow certain permissions, or email too.

 

We've (in a roundabout way) done similar things at work. The joy here is that you don't have to update churns of history - you can simply implement a tool and let people utilise it as best they can.

 

It would be pretty straightforward to have a bot member, for example, keep tally of votes while a GM is afk. Or if members sent a PM to the bot, for the bot to end a night early if all players sent a correctly codified response.

 

it doesn't even have to be a vb plugin. A plugin could theoretically control the input, sure, but on our scale if members simply followed protocol then a script could execute whats needed...

 

Anyway this is all coming from a guy whose day job is asking coders to do something but not really understanding what they do :P I apologise if it comes across in a crude way, or if it says things in a way that is clearly (to you) stupid. I don't know limitations or applications. I couldn't comment on why other forums haven't done something yet (other than teh horrible search functions of the main vb forum, or how the rise of other platforms means its less necessary to have vb do it...) but I'm just trying to motivate a conversation and educate myself at the same time

[bob]

Did DuD actually send in any PMs?

[Mr-Paul]

As someone who has just read this game this morning, I like the write ups, and I like the customisation options you've put into them, but one problem I feel is that it gives away that someone that is focussing, which tells the other players that while they'll be getting a guaranteed kill in the next round, they're also a sitting duck and can't defend themselves. I think without a writeup there'd be a different kind of tension. I'd be up for having a go in another game in this format!

[Sméagol]

[..]

I'll comment on this in the evening. Going to bed now. But.. Maybe we should split this discussion off into its own topic. Every post that doesn't have anything about the mexican standoff.

 

Did DuD actually send in any PMs?

No.

 

As someone who has just read this game this morning, I like the write ups, and I like the customisation options you've put into them, but one problem I feel is that it gives away that someone that is focussing, which tells the other players that while they'll be getting a guaranteed kill in the next round, they're also a sitting duck and can't defend themselves. I think without a writeup there'd be a different kind of tension. I'd be up for having a go in another game in this format!

Yup, that was the initial thought on mafiascum. I decided last second to remove the write-ups, with only the kills remaining. Adds more excitement perhaps, but removes the hilarity. And post-game, the same player who suggested to remove them, didn't think it would matter overall, as did I. I don't think it matters in the grand scheme of things.. Except the final duel. I should end it with 2 players remaining, when one has focussed and one not. But with more players remaining, there's still a chance you survive, so you still need to do something. Perhaps there are other solutions than removing the write-ups, I'll think about it.

 

But next time, I could remove the write-ups here as well, see how you like it. No one actually bothered with customisation .

[DuD]

I managed to miss the entire game

[Sméagol]

I managed to miss the entire game

Next time.

 

If I'm online, and you can round up 4+ players in 5 minutes, I can run this in no time.

 

Oh and @Cube, I see you viewing, I checked last night, the chat web client doesn't let me paste multiline content. So I need a normal client.. Assuming those will let me paste that stuff, can't remember. But I need a good and free one, or I can't be arsed.

[Sméagol]

Damn, I just read it as focus beat dodge. Still thought a two way duel was fastest finger first.

 

Mine is a moral victory.

I'm likely to run a game later tonight on mafiascum, and was revisiting this thread.. Thinking about it, it may be a nice balance change. Have a focus shot beat a dodge, but let people who are shooting each other still duel it out.. I'm working on a new version of the game, so I'll think about it.