Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Emasher]

The NX not using an optical drive of any sort wouldn't surprise me at all. It having a blu-ray or equivalent drive wouldn't surprise me either. It will almost certainly come down to the number of people that are buying Wii U games on disks versus downloading them. Given that Nintendo hasn't cared about movie playback before (aside from streaming services), I don't know why they would start now, especially when streaming services are becoming so popular, while I would imagine physical media is starting to decline, or at least probably will be over the next few years. But who knows, I could be completely wrong, and Nintendo could decide to go in a more Sony-like direction when it comes to media playback. It just doesn't seem likely to me.

 

There is a good case for the NX retaining some form of support for optical media in that games these days are absolutely massive. Grand Theft Auto V is 50 GB on the PS4 and Xbox One, and 62 GB on the PC (which is definitely at the higher end of the spectrum). Even with a fairly decent connection, that takes a long time to download, and storing it takes up a lot of space relative to the common sizes of hard drives these days. People in more rural areas, or those who just don't want to pay for higher internet speeds do exist and do still buy games on optical media. I don't think the issue of children buying games is as significant though. Retail stores can still sell access codes and gift cards (as is done now in some cases), and they don't seem to have much of a problem buying mobile games (mind you, those are usually much cheaper if you don't go nuts with microtransactions).

 

In order to keep costs down, I could see some sort of external optical drive being made available for those who still want physical copies and one not being built into the console.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

The NX not using an optical drive of any sort wouldn't surprise me at all. It having a blu-ray or equivalent drive wouldn't surprise me either. It will almost certainly come down to the number of people that are buying Wii U games on disks versus downloading them. Given that Nintendo hasn't cared about movie playback before (aside from streaming services), I don't know why they would start now, especially when streaming services are becoming so popular, while I would imagine physical media is starting to decline, or at least probably will be over the next few years. But who knows, I could be completely wrong, and Nintendo could decide to go in a more Sony-like direction when it comes to media playback. It just doesn't seem likely to me.

 

There is a good case for the NX retaining some form of support for optical media in that games these days are absolutely massive. Grand Theft Auto V is 50 GB on the PS4 and Xbox One, and 62 GB on the PC (which is definitely at the higher end of the spectrum). Even with a fairly decent connection, that takes a long time to download, and storing it takes up a lot of space relative to the common sizes of hard drives these days. People in more rural areas, or those who just don't want to pay for higher internet speeds do exist and do still buy games on optical media. I don't think the issue of children buying games is as significant though. Retail stores can still sell access codes and gift cards (as is done now in some cases), and they don't seem to have much of a problem buying mobile games (mind you, those are usually much cheaper if you don't go nuts with microtransactions).

 

In order to keep costs down, I could see some sort of external optical drive being made available for those who still want physical copies and one not being built into the console.

 

Interesting thoughts. I've personally made the move to downloading all my Nintendo games now onto a hard drive, so I would welcome something like this, although I agree it would probably alienate too many consumers (so a perfect Nintendo premise, then )

 

However a thought occurred to me while reading your post, certainly concerning internet speeds. Most GAME shops have their own wifi now, and the Cloud is always about too. So IF it was a handheld hybrid, you could always take your handheld to GAME, get your download code and download it there in the shop on to your portable, then take it home and move the file onto the home console.

 

Is it likely? No. But then any things possible and I like the idea of it!

[dazzybee]

Could Nintendo release a range of devices? Digital only? One with an optical drive? etc. or would this be way too confusing!

[Emasher]

Could Nintendo release a range of devices? Digital only? One with an optical drive? etc. or would this be way too confusing!

 

I think a peripheral is more likely in that situation. Nintendo loves their peripherals, but they don't seem to do tiered SKUs too often.

 

Regarding downloading games in gaming stores, I really can't see it. Even with a really good connection, a 50 GB game still takes ages to download. Definitely far longer that one would want to spend in one of those stores. It would also require owning the handheld if you just want it on the console. What might work better is having terminals in gaming stores that have the games cached on them that allow you to copy the game files either onto the handheld directly, or to a USB device for the home console. You'd still need internet access at home to resolve some DRM stuff most likely, but mose people at least have some sort of internet connection these days, even if it's not fast enough to download larger games.

[Mr_Master_X2]

I think something else on medium that I heard about but no idea if true; devs have stopped compressing game data properly since they have no need to on blurays, and that proper compression techniques would fit games on high capacity SD cards. So essentially the "that's too much data for cards" may not be relevant since the data size we're seeing for bluray games may be exagerated due to lack of good compression techniques. I'm sure somone else knows more about this and whether it is true.

[Emasher]

I think something else on medium that I heard about but no idea if true; devs have stopped compressing game data properly since they have no need to on blurays, and that proper compression techniques would fit games on high capacity SD cards. So essentially the "that's too much data for cards" may not be relevant since the data size we're seeing for bluray games may be exagerated due to lack of good compression techniques. I'm sure somone else knows more about this and whether it is true.

 

Compression certainly plays a factor, but it's not the full story. Suppose your game is going to take up 10 GB without compression, but would fit on a 8.5 GB dual layer DVD for the 360 version if you compress it. Of course you're going to compress it, especially if it's the sort of game that's tricky to split up onto multiple disks (although, that's always another option if compression doesn't quite do the job). Fast forward to the 8th generation when Xbox One and PS4 games can take up 50 GBs on dual layer blu-rays, if your game, uncompressed is already less than that, why bother?

[Josh64]

I think it's very unlikely it will come without a disc drive, I can see where you guys are coming from and it makes sense but there are a lot of people on shit Internet that will rely on discs for a long time yet.

 

I don't see a console without discs being a mass market thing for another 10 years. And Nintendo's userbase isn't exactly tech savvy, if any console manufacturer were to make the move to no optical drive I imagine it would be Microsoft first.

 

I honestly don't know what to think of the NX. I'm totally disregarding all rumours right now because who can you trust? And in 99% of cases rumours have turned out to be bullshit. The only time a rumour that I dismissed came to be true was the 'Nintendo's next console will have a controller with a 6-inch screen' because I was all 'a controller with a 6-inch screen, that's ridiculous'... And well, the Wii U happened so

[dazzybee]

Ign, game scoop and game trailers all chat nx this week, they all seemed to take the Wall Street journals article as fact which is interesting.

 

I just don't know how this thing can be a huge worldwide success at this point... Whatever they do with it.... If it's more powerful than the ps4 and has multiplatform games, will people jump ship to get the 'better' version? I don't see it. Will the sheer volume of first party games be enough for people to buy it with not having two platforms to make for? Maybe. But still can't see it.

[Pestneb]

Assuming this is a home console...

either

It is marginally better than the PS4/X1 in which case it will be in the same position as wii U in a few years time relative to ps5/x2...

or

It is a significant step up about what would be expected from PS5/X2. In which case both Sony and Microsoft have a clear target to surpass and the time to incorporate that into their own systems.

So the Nintendo variant will be a second class game (unless they actually manage to create a good install base before the other two release.. which seems unlikely to me - although not impossible).

 

Really releasing it next year imo it makes best sense (for the console itself, not the Wii U/3DS) to release a handheld with next to no competition. Then, when PS5/X2 are released, release a generation 9.1 console about the same time as the competition and leverage the handhelds userbase to provide a good library of games as well as gen 9 games that push the home console...

[Debug Mode]

Ign, game scoop and game trailers all chat nx this week, they all seemed to take the Wall Street journals article as fact which is interesting.

 

I just don't know how this thing can be a huge worldwide success at this point... Whatever they do with it.... If it's more powerful than the ps4 and has multiplatform games, will people jump ship to get the 'better' version? I don't see it. Will the sheer volume of first party games be enough for people to buy it with not having two platforms to make for? Maybe. But still can't see it.

 

Well, it's kind of interesting. They announced that the SDKs were shipping out and noted the performance ever so slightly in the article, and then we basically got the confirmation that studios did indeed receive SDKs for the console, so it's highly likely that there's a lot of truth to it.

[Emasher]

Ign, game scoop and game trailers all chat nx this week, they all seemed to take the Wall Street journals article as fact which is interesting.

 

I just don't know how this thing can be a huge worldwide success at this point... Whatever they do with it.... If it's more powerful than the ps4 and has multiplatform games, will people jump ship to get the 'better' version? I don't see it. Will the sheer volume of first party games be enough for people to buy it with not having two platforms to make for? Maybe. But still can't see it.

 

This is an interesting observation. Since the Wii, Nintendo has seemed to be in a position of having difficulty catching up to their competition from a technological perspective. Releasing a new console in the middle of the lifespans of two others doesn't seem to be a great move in that the other guys will simply be able to surpass them when they do update their consoles, and Nintendo will be in a position of their console having a limited library of games until then (which happens for most consoles early in their lifespan).

 

But perhaps it doesn't have to be that way. The rumor right now is that Nintendo will be releasing a console and handhelds, both running the same operating system, and having the same library of games. Presumably, they'll be running the same games, with the graphics, and other resource hungry features being scaled appropriately to match the power of the platform they're being run on. This isn't anything new. With the vast diversity of power found in gaming PCs, PC games almost always give users the ability to change the graphical settings, allowing higher end PCs to run with more graphical effects, or even things like greater draw (and simulation) distances, and the ability to scale the density of things being simulated like NPCs. I don't expect Nintendo to give users a proper graphics options menu (although this would be nice for users who might say, want to choose between having less effects, but a higher frame rate, and other trade offs), but rather, the technology already exists to create game engines that can be scaled to run on different hardware. If Nintendo ends up doing this with the two versions of NX (assuming those rumors are true), what's to stop them from releasing a new console when the PS5 and next Xbox come out (which will be competitive hardware wise), and continue to release games that can be played on the old console, but look better when played on the new console?

[Nolan]

Essentially a unified unchanging OS but better hardware when needed. Such as how phones are these days. Or PC in a way just a closed box. Something similar to iOS, many games can run from the 4-the 6(s) but the newer the phone the better the game will run.

 

They'll still be running into issues of something being made that is not compatible on the weaker hardware though, same as on phones actually. There will come a time a developer makes something that cannot be scaled down in a way that maintains the gameplay. Hardware is more than just graphics, look at Dead Rising on the Wii. It wasn't just graphics that were toned down. They cut the number of zombies significantly. Or more recently, the new3DS. Same OS slightly better hardware but games that don't play on the old hardware. It can make for a fractured userbase and not all developers are going to be happy with that....On the other hand it might make them even happier given the trend of rereleasing last gen games on new hardware with varying improvements.

[V. Amoleo]

If Nintendo ends up doing this with the two versions of NX (assuming those rumors are true), what's to stop them from releasing a new console when the PS5 and next Xbox come out (which will be competitive hardware wise), and continue to release games that can be played on the old console, but look better when played on the new console?

 

While this would be a nice idea, they would always be brought down by the least powerful device in the range. This is why I don't think that the NX will be a single platform which shares games. For example, open world games are getting bigger (or more detailed) with every generation. This isn't just a matter of upping the ram, the whole structure of how the world loads is different.

 

People keep referencing iOS when talking about a shared platform but in terms of hardware there isn't a huge difference between the iPad and iPhone, it's more about being size appropriate. Also, complex new games on these devices tend to leave the old iOS versions behind quite quickly.

 

Now do I think that the NX could be a range of platforms which share an architecture so that development skills for one can be transferable to another? Yes. But having transferable skills between Nintendo devices isn't anywhere near as useful to third parties as making it easy to develop between the three major consoles.

[liger05]

what's to stop them from releasing a new console when the PS5 and next Xbox come out (which will be competitive hardware wise), and continue to release games that can be played on the old console, but look better when played on the new console?

 

I think that is more likely the plan. The NX can take them up to when the next generation starts and then they can launch a new platform say a year after the competition does.

 

As for no physical disc drive or asking consumers to buy an external drive. That would be a disaster.

 

The market is nowhere near ready for a console to he released with no optical drive.

[dazzybee]

While this would be a nice idea, they would always be brought down by the least powerful device in the range. This is why I don't think that the NX will be a single platform which shares games. For example, open world games are getting bigger (or more detailed) with every generation. This isn't just a matter of upping the ram, the whole structure of how the world loads is different.

 

People keep referencing iOS when talking about a shared platform but in terms of hardware there isn't a huge difference between the iPad and iPhone, it's more about being size appropriate. Also, complex new games on these devices tend to leave the old iOS versions behind quite quickly.

 

Now do I think that the NX could be a range of platforms which share an architecture so that development skills for one can be transferable to another? Yes. But having transferable skills between Nintendo devices isn't anywhere near as useful to third parties as making it easy to develop between the three major consoles.

 

But I don't think EVERY game will work across devices. Like iphone/ipad with some iPad only games. i think every 'portable' game will work on both devices, but she games only for the home console. So big huge games that don't want to be compromised won't work on them.

 

That's still an amazing situation to be in though in terms of releases.

 

I don't know anything about PC gaming, how easy is it to scale for a handheld and home console with significant results and what are the drawbacks?

[nekunando]

Whatever form the NX takes, I have an overwhelming craving for a new Wave Race this morning so.. make it happen, Nintendo : peace:

[dazzybee]

Whatever form the NX takes, I have an overwhelming craving for a new Wave Race this morning so.. make it happen, Nintendo : peace:

 

I have the craving most mornings. Along with a new F Zero. Along with a new Excitebike (not truck, though that would be a decent consolation)...

[Hero-of-Time]

Ign, game scoop and game trailers all chat nx this week, they all seemed to take the Wall Street journals article as fact which is interesting.

 

I just don't know how this thing can be a huge worldwide success at this point... Whatever they do with it.... If it's more powerful than the ps4 and has multiplatform games, will people jump ship to get the 'better' version? I don't see it. Will the sheer volume of first party games be enough for people to buy it with not having two platforms to make for? Maybe. But still can't see it.

 

Just started listening to the NVC podcast but the RFN guys were also on about the NX, as well. They also made the same point that Brian did about Nintendo fans being partly to blame for the 3rd party situation. Just buying 1st party games and nothing else doesn't really help things.

 

The NX is going to be in a very sticky situation when it launches. Will people jump ship mid generation to another console? I doubt it. People have made their choices for the generation and have built up their friends lists and gaming buddies already. Again, it seems like Nintendo will be left with only it's core fanbase, something that is shrinking with every generation. If they can't/don't find another market for their products ( whether its attract the gamers or casuals ) it's going to continue to get worse for them.

 

I wonder what's happening with their QoL stuff? Many have speculated that it has taken a backseat to the mobile partnership. Guess time will tell.

[Kounan]

But what can Nintendo do?

 

Have at a start only 1-2 own IP's and everything else just third parties, so people are forced to buy them?

 

It is a bit of a problem for them how to release the games so that they don't come into collision with third party games. Or maybe is it just me, but if I have a choice between their own IP and some third party game, I will almost always choose their IP. Third party games would always come later.

 

Also, if they improve online gaming for their own IP's it could make even more problems for third party games, as people would spend more time playing nintendo games.

 

But I am quite sure that games like Fallout, Skyrim, GTA, FIFA, PES and probably COD and Battlefield would sell with ease if the would arrive at the same time as on other consoles.

 

PS

Couldn't Ninendo make some demos for their IP's for PC, so that more players see the games (as I think that lot of people didn't try their games - I couldn't believe how many people I know who never tried Mario & co.) and so decide to get the console?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Kounan

[Dcubed]

Just started listening to the NVC podcast but the RFN guys were also on about the NX, as well. They also made the same point that Brian did about Nintendo fans being partly to blame for the 3rd party situation. Just buying 1st party games and nothing else doesn't really help things.

 

The NX is going to be in a very sticky situation when it launches. Will people jump ship mid generation to another console? I doubt it. People have made their choices for the generation and have built up their friends lists and gaming buddies already. Again, it seems like Nintendo will be left with only it's core fanbase, something that is shrinking with every generation. If they can't/don't find another market for their products ( whether its attract the gamers or casuals ) it's going to continue to get worse for them.

 

All very true. I don't see many people jumping ship from Xbone/PS4 mid generation to the NX console if it comes out, say November 2017, no matter the unique features, more powerful specs etc that it may offer.

 

However, there is still a large audience that has not jumped ship from PS360. They're still up for grabs...

 

I don't see Nintendo going head to head directly against PS4/Xbone. Not only does it go against everything they keep saying about how they don't see them as direct competitors, it is also a battle that they cannot win. Their strategy with using mobile to convert users over makes it clear that they're still hoping to cast their net more widely and win back a chunk of that expanded audience that went mobile.

 

They'll obviously try to win support from Ubisoft, Activision and Warner Bros, but EA and Take Two will be eternally out of reach. Either way, they're certainly not going to make the same mistake they made with Wii U and they're not going to try to make that same deal-with-the-devil that destroyed their relations with EA again!

 

Ultimately as far as large western developers go, there's only so much that they can do and they're probably not going to bend over backwards to win them over. Their efforts will mostly be focused on smaller independent developers (and if they were smart, they'd be chucking some money/IPs their way to win some good quality exclusives!)

 

Otherwise, I reckon that they'll focus on taking back widespread Japanese developer support. By effectively sharing their handheld 3rd party support with their console, they will essentially have everyone who is still supporting dedicated platforms on their side - so as far as Japan goes, their main battle will be trying to find a way to win support from mobile game developers (see Puzzle & Dragons Z/Gung-ho for what they're gonna be looking for)

 

I wonder what's happening with their QoL stuff? Many have speculated that it has taken a backseat to the mobile partnership. Guess time will tell.

 

It's probably progressing just fine. Remember that it's not a gaming product, so why do they need to talk about it before it's ready for release? Their sleep monitoring device is a standalone healthcare product that doesn't need a long running marketing campaign before its release.

[Kounan]

@Dcubed - what is the problem with EA and Take Two? Someone mentioned digital sale as a problem with EA, is there something else?

[Dcubed]

@Dcubed - what is the problem with EA and Take Two? Someone mentioned digital sale as a problem with EA, is there something else?

 

Well with EA supposedly they were asked for advice and support when Nintendo were developing Nintendo Network and the Wii U eShop; after which they gave Nintendo an ultimatum, either adopt Origin (EA's own online store they use on PC) as the exclusive storefront that all developers (both 1st and 3rd party) must use to sell their digital content on Wii U, or EA will pull all support for Nintendo's consoles.

 

Nintendo obviously refused. Looking at what happened with how EA blatantly sabotaged their own releases (ME3/Mass Effect Trilogy, Fifa 2013 lacking basic features, NFS being delayed to the point where it had no chance of success etc), after which they publicly dropped all support for Nintendo and publicly shat over their consoles in the press, and the fact that they actually did exactly the same thing to SEGA, back with the Dreamcast; it's all very believable.

 

As for Take Two? Well Rockstar seem to have a bit of a grudge against Nintendo in general (ever since Body Harvest on N64) and none of their other developers have ever really supported Nintendo platforms, so... yeah. Not gonna happen.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

But what can Nintendo do?

 

Have at a start only 1-2 own IP's and everything else just third parties, so people are forced to buy them?

 

It is a bit of a problem for them how to release the games so that they don't come into collision with third party games. Or maybe is it just me, but if I have a choice between their own IP and some third party game, I will almost always choose their IP. Third party games would always come later.

 

Also, if they improve online gaming for their own IP's it could make even more problems for third party games, as people would spend more time playing nintendo games.

 

But I am quite sure that games like Fallout, Skyrim, GTA, FIFA, PES and probably COD and Battlefield would sell with ease if the would arrive at the same time as on other consoles.

 

Thing is, you look at stuff like Zack & Wiki or A Boy and his Blob, both on the Wii ( massive install base ), both exclusive 3rd party games and both very catered towards the Nintendo crowd ( at least visually ). Both these games sold pretty poorly, yet on paper they should have worked. It's no wonder why Nintendo throw Mario in every game or why 3rd parties don't even bother with Nintendo platforms.

 

I do appreciate that people only have a limited amount of time and money to spend on games and as such they want to buy and play the things they enjoy and are familiar with. It's certainly a tough situation.

 

 

I don't see Nintendo going head to head directly against PS4/Xbone. Not only does it go against everything they keep saying about how they don't see them as direct competitors, it is also a battle that they cannot win. Their strategy with using mobile to convert users over makes it clear that they're still hoping to cast their net more widely and win back a chunk of that expanded audience that went mobile.

 

I've always hated this line of thinking that they spouted. Whether they like it or not they are competing against Sony and Microsoft. Gaming is a hobby that you spend doing in your spare time. Anything that takes away from playing on a Nintendo console, whether it be reading a book, watching a movie or playing on a PS4/Xbox, should be seen as a threat to their market.

 

 

Ultimately as far as large western developers go, there's only so much that they can do and they're probably not going to bend over backwards to win them over. Their efforts will mostly be focused on smaller independent developers (and if they were smart, they'd be chucking some money/IPs their way to win some good quality exclusives!)

 

Otherwise, I reckon that they'll focus on taking back widespread Japanese developer support. By effectively sharing their handheld 3rd party support with their console, they will essentially have everyone who is still supporting dedicated platforms on their side - so as far as Japan goes, their main battle will be trying to find a way to win support from mobile game developers (see Puzzle & Dragons Z/Gung-ho for what they're gonna be looking for)

 

Do you think that you can have a successful console without strong Western developer support? I don't think that's possible without some sort of gimmick to hook people in.

 

The majority of big sellers are now made in the west. Japan has really struggled to get to grips with HD development and most of their big guns are either leaving the market for mobile or just barely hanging on.

 

Their Indie push still leaves a lot to be desired. Yeah, they have a few cheeky exclusives here and there but a lot of the indie titles that get ported have seen releases on other platforms ages ago. The RFN guys were on about this during E3, saying that on the show floor Nintendo's indie push was pretty zero when compared to Microsoft and Sony.

 

It's probably progressing just fine. Remember that it's not a gaming product, so why do they need to talk about it before it's ready for release? Their sleep monitoring device is a standalone healthcare product that doesn't need a long running marketing campaign before its release.

 

I still thought we would have heard something about it. Obviously not from the gaming press but just in general. Perhaps the investor meeting or what it is will shed some light on its situation.

 

Well with EA supposedly they were asked for advice and support when Nintendo were developing Nintendo Network and the Wii U eShop; after which they gave Nintendo an ultimatum, either adopt Origin (EA's own online store they use on PC) as the exclusive storefront that all developers must use to sell their digital content on Wii U, or EA will pull all support for Nintendo's consoles.

 

Nintendo obviously refused. Looking at what happened with how EA blatantly sabotaged their own releases (ME3/Mass Effect Trilogy, Fifa 2013 lacking basic features, NFS being delayed to the point where it had no chance of success etc) and the fact that they actually did exactly the same thing to SEGA back with the Dreamcast; it's all very believable.

 

As for Take Two? Well Rockstar seem to have a bit of a grudge against Nintendo in general (ever since Body Harvest on N64) and none of their other developers have ever really supported Nintendo platforms, so... yeah. Not gonna happen.

 

I so hope that the EA story comes out eventually. I would be really interested to hear how things really went down in that deal.

[Kounan]

Thx, interesting. So to win them back they would need to sell lot of consoles. Wonder if it ever happend that a console manufacturer refused to allow some games on their consoles.

 

If they get PES it could compensate for the EA problem, of course, if the win back Ubisoft and Activision.

[Hero-of-Time]

Thx, interesting. So to win them back they would need to sell lot of consoles. Wonder if it ever happend that a console manufacturer refused to allow some games on their consoles.

 

If they get PES it could compensate for the EA problem, of course, if the win back Ubisoft and Activision.

 

I think Ubisoft are fine, as are Activision, to a certain extent. As for Pro Evo, that would require Konami to actually continue to make console games.