Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Eddage]

Really? Not the mario kart level?

 

There was a Mario Kart level in SMW3D?

 

For me, whilst I enjoyed SM3DW, it wasn't a game I could really sink my teeth into for hours on end. It was a case of play a few of these bite sized levels for an hour or so and then done. Also, none of the levels have really stuck in my mind.

 

If I were to say a "real 3D Mario" it would mean something like Mario 64. A game with fewer levels/worlds (15 wasn't it?) but each world is bigger and encourages true exploration.

 

3D Land and 3D World seem more like the 2D games just set in a 3D environment; simple, quick A to B (with slight variation) levels. Whilst this can be fun I want another 3D Mario game I can get properly lost in!

[dazzybee]

Nope, don't remember this being in it at all. Meanwhile, I can remember every single level in Mario 64.

 

A big part of this I think was that SM3DW had no theme of its own - the level themes were mostly taken from the traditional 2D Mario games.

 

Maybe you don't play every level then because you'd remember it.

 

Also, not quite fair comparison is it? 15 levels in mario 64, all distinct, and over 100 in mario 3d world.

 

Galaxy 2 is the best game of all time for me, but I also remember mario 64 worlds more than each level than that game.

 

There was a Mario Kart level in SMW3D?

 

For me, whilst I enjoyed SM3DW, it wasn't a game I could really sink my teeth into for hours on end. It was a case of play a few of these bite sized levels for an hour or so and then done. Also, none of the levels have really stuck in my mind.

 

If I were to say a "real 3D Mario" it would mean something like Mario 64. A game with fewer levels/worlds (15 wasn't it?) but each world is bigger and encourages true exploration.

 

3D Land and 3D World seem more like the 2D games just set in a 3D environment; simple, quick A to B (with slight variation) levels. Whilst this can be fun I want another 3D Mario game I can get properly lost in!

 

Yep, there was, slightly secret, but if you tried opening every level you couldn't miss it.

 

And do we really have to start the whole "real 3D mario" again

[Eddage]

Maybe you don't play every level then because you'd remember it.

 

Also, not quite fair comparison is it? 15 levels in mario 64, all distinct, and over 100 in mario 3d world.

 

Galaxy 2 is the best game of all time for me, but I also remember mario 64 worlds more than each level than that game.

 

 

 

Yep, there was, slightly secret, but if you tried opening every level you couldn't miss it.

 

And do we really have to start the whole "real 3D mario" again

 

I played every level... I also completed every level apart from the last one, still don't remember it...

 

That is one of my problems with 3D World, whilst the levels were fun the fact there were SO MANY meant that none of them made any lasting impression on me. I much prefer fewer but larger areas to explore.

[Sheikah]

Maybe you don't play every level then because you'd remember it.

 

Also, not quite fair comparison is it? 15 levels in mario 64, all distinct, and over 100 in mario 3d world.

 

Galaxy 2 is the best game of all time for me, but I also remember mario 64 worlds more than each level than that game.

 

Nope, I played every level. I didn't know that you knew me better than I knew myself though! Also if you look a little bit above, Eddage doesn't remember it either. I know from Destiny at least that Eddage likes to play through all the content so either we both just decided to skip over a level for some random reason or we really did not remember it!

 

Also it's a perfectly fair comparison; obviously the fact it has more levels that are more bitesize in nature makes the levels less memorable, no denying that. But the levels are what they are because of these choices - fairly forgettable, in my opinion. Similar to that description of triple A above, which is what I originally was commenting on.

[Ronnie]

And do we really have to start the whole "real 3D mario" again

 

The criticisms of a wonderful game like 3D World make me sad. It's judged on what it isn't, not what it is.

[dazzybee]

I played every level... I also completed every level apart from the last one, still don't remember it...

 

That is one of my problems with 3D World, whilst the levels were fun the fact there were SO MANY meant that none of them made any lasting impression on me. I much prefer fewer but larger areas to explore.

 

Genuinely surprising. I mean I understand why people wouldn't like the bitsize nature of it, but to not remember the Mario Kart level is very very surprising.

 

Did you like Galaxy 2? That's equally bitesize and I can barely remember specifics. Though it plays so incredibly it's obviously on another level.

 

Nope, I played every level. I didn't know that you knew me better than I knew myself though! Also if you look a little bit above, Eddage doesn't remember it either. I know from Destiny at least that Eddage likes to play through all the content so either we both just decided to skip over a level for some random reason or we really did not remember it!

 

Also it's a perfectly fair comparison; obviously the fact it has more levels that are more bitesize in nature makes the levels less memorable, no denying that. But the levels are what they are because of these choices - fairly forgettable, in my opinion. Similar to that description of triple A above, which is what I originally was commenting on.

 

Why do you have to get your back up so quickly? Eddage replied, a normal response, you don't have to be so defensive and react like that.

 

And i really don't think it is a fair comparison. Of course you remember 15 levels more than you remember over 100. They're not trying to do the same things. Also I presume you've played Mario 64 numerous times, it's been featured in videos and best ofs for the past 20 years. Personally I don't think things being memorable equals better as a default position. Like I say, I prefer Galaxy 2 than 64 but remember Mario 64 levels incredibly well too.

 

But we're straying from Switch again. And with regards to mario, although I love 3D world, I'd love an explorative mario again - as long as it's not like Sunshine Though a mix would be perfect for me - Some big huge levels you visit numerous times, and a few galaxy/3D world styled bitesized levels with loads of invention!

[Eddage]

The criticisms of a wonderful game like 3D World make me sad. It's judged on what it isn't, not what it is.

 

Surely everything is judged on both what it is and what it isn't? At the most basic they are all games and so our enjoyment of each game will naturally be judged against other games.

 

I enjoyed what 3D World was, but only up to a point that I can enjoy that kind of game. By this I mean I will always enjoy larger, more explorable worlds and therefor, in my mind, 3D World will be 'marked down' because of this.

 

Genuinely surprising. I mean I understand why people wouldn't like the bitsize nature of it, but to not remember the Mario Kart level is very very surprising.

 

Did you like Galaxy 2? That's equally bitesize and I can barely remember specifics. Though it plays so incredibly it's obviously on another level.

 

I quite liked the first Galaxy, never really got into the second one as much. Again, the slow move towards more bitesize levels really didn't do it for me.

 

 

But we're straying from Switch again. And with regards to mario, although I love 3D world, I'd love an explorative mario again - as long as it's not like Sunshine Though a mix would be perfect for me - Some big huge levels you visit numerous times, and a few galaxy/3D world styled bitesized levels with loads of invention!

 

Funny you should mention Sunshine when that had the mix of the two (sort of), bigger areas to explore with FLUDD and the smaller platforming levels/puzzles

 

I'm actually hoping for a Sunshine remake (or at least a GameCube VC) on Switch because I really want to play it again. Despite the dodgy voice acting I remember the gameplay fondly, especially those bitesize platforming levels, I think that's the best Mario has ever controlled in 3D! It is a game I've only played through the once though so I could be misremembering!

Edited November 7, 2016 by Eddage

[Ronnie]

Surely everything is judged on both what it is and what it isn't? At the most basic they are all games and so our enjoyment of each game will naturally be judged against other games.

 

I mean a lot of reviews mark it down for not being Galaxy, rather than judging it on its own merits.

[Grazza]

I completed every level of Super Mario 3D World apart from the most difficult two, liked the game in general, and genuinely can't remember the Mario Kart stage.

[Eddage]

I mean a lot of reviews mark it down for not being Galaxy, rather than judging it on its own merits.

 

But that is surely down to that reviewers opinion?

 

Whilst I haven't read these reviews so am only guessing I doubt they are saying it's a bad game, I don't recall seeing any "bad" reviews at the time of release. Of course the reviewer is going to compare it to Galaxy, the previous 3D Mario game, that is only natural and if they don't like the direction it has taken in comparison then they are likely to give it a lower score. I don't think any reviewers have said it's a bad game because it's different but rather something along the lines of "what is on offer in 3D World is fun, but I would prefer a game similar in the style of previous entries"

 

This is one of the reason I don't really like review scores and generally ignore them, instead focusing on what is actually written.

[dazzybee]

I quite liked the first Galaxy, never really got into the second one as much. Again, the slow move towards more bitesize levels really didn't do it for me.

 

 

 

 

Funny you should mention Sunshine when that had the mix of the two (sort of), bigger areas to explore with FLUDD and the smaller platforming levels/puzzles

 

I'm actually hoping for a Sunshine remake (or at least a GameCube VC) on Switch because I really want to play it again. Despite the dodgy voice acting I remember the gameplay fondly, especially those bitesize platforming levels, I think that's the best Mario has ever controlled in 3D! It is a game I've only played through the once though so I could be misremembering!

 

Ah okay, that makes a bit more sense. As I see 3D world as quite similar to Galaxy.

 

As for sunshine, I guess it did, my favourite bits were the FLUDD-less, bitesized ones too I loved a lot of the eternal exploration, but it had too many frustrating problems.... haven't played it in ages though, might whack it back out!

 

I completed every level of Super Mario 3D World apart from the most difficult two, liked the game in general, and genuinely can't remember the Mario Kart stage.

 

What the hell is going on with this mario kart stage?!?!

 

Other point - pussy!!

[Happenstance]

Where in the game was the Mario Kart stage anyway? I completed at least the main story and dont remember it. Was it in the stuff you unlocked later?

[Ronnie]

I completed every level of Super Mario 3D World apart from the most difficult two, liked the game in general, and genuinely can't remember the Mario Kart stage.

 

[Jonnas]

Just a couple of thoughts on this discussion:

 

-Is it not possible that the level just didn't register with some people as a "Mario Kart" level? I mean, if it wasn't for the music, I certainly wouldn't be associating it with Mario Kart;

 

-It's perfectly possible (likely, even), that people simply remember less from more recent games than from games of their youth. For example, I know most of the Mario 64 missions by heart, but Super Mario Galaxy is a tad sketchier, despite being an excellent game in its own right. Similarly, I remember most of the levels in Super Mario Land 2, but with the levels of Super Mario World (which I played when I was much older), I'm drawing a blank.

 

It can also be because games like Super Mario 64 have areas with missions, not individually unique levels like SM3DW. I wouldn't call that a strike against SM3DW, nor against the people who are honestly saying they don't remember much of its levels;

 

-That said, if you can't remember the levels in SM3DW, but you did enjoy the game when you played it... It sounds like a fantastic opportunity for a replay. It's like experiencing a game for the first time all over again.

[Grazza]

 

Oh, I liked that, thanks. I just didn't notice a Mario Kart connection.

[Ronnie]

Oh, I liked that, thanks. I just didn't notice a Mario Kart connection.

 

The colourful blocks on the track edges are from Super Mario Kart, ditto the background and music.

 

[Pestneb]

Oh, I liked that, thanks. I just didn't notice a Mario Kart connection.

 

Did you play mario kart on the snes? Just thinking, the music is from mario kart... then looking at the snes rendition on mk8 for the art style...

 

If you didn't have mk on the snes or perhaps the memory has faded then perhaps that's why. Or perhaps some of us just played too much mk on the snes

 

**edit**

Just to add a bit to what ronnie said about the edges :

 

 

so it's more the mariokart 8 rendering of the snes course's edges

Edited November 7, 2016 by Pestneb

[Sheikah]

Genuinely surprising. I mean I understand why people wouldn't like the bitsize nature of it, but to not remember the Mario Kart level is very very surprising.

 

Not really that surprising now - 3 people already said they didn't remember it. After looking it up, it doesn't exactly look that thrilling. The general MK theme seems to be the coloured bricks around the edge; it's not like you ride a kart or anything, is it?

 

Why do you have to get your back up so quickly? Eddage replied, a normal response, you don't have to be so defensive and react like that.

 

Well maybe I misread your post but it seemed to be like you were disregarding the possibility that people found it forgettable, by saying "no you must just have just not played it". Maybe some people didn't find it anything special?

 

And i really don't think it is a fair comparison. Of course you remember 15 levels more than you remember over 100. They're not trying to do the same things. Also I presume you've played Mario 64 numerous times, it's been featured in videos and best ofs for the past 20 years. Personally I don't think things being memorable equals better as a default position. Like I say, I prefer Galaxy 2 than 64 but remember Mario 64 levels incredibly well too.

 

I feel like you're making my point for me. Yes, they were bitesize and ten a penny - so less memorable. For the most part, the levels also didn't really have a unique theme of their own (most of the themes were ripped from 2D Mario). So we are generally agreed they are less memorable than the N64 levels (whether you feel that's 'fair' or not)? This was a point I originally made in response to "AAA games are forgettable. Well, I found this game forgettable. I don't remember most of the levels!

Edited November 7, 2016 by Sheikah

[Pestneb]

Not really that surprising now - 3 people already said they didn't remember it. After looking it up, it doesn't exactly look that thrilling. The general MK theme seems to be the coloured bricks around the edge; it's not like you ride a kart or anything, is it?

 

the coloured bricks, the soundtrack, the road. If you were in a kart then it would be a mariokart mingame. Having said that... a mario kart platformer... you know it could actually work :P

[Grazza]

Did you play mario kart on the snes?

 

Yes, but not much. To be quite honest I don't like the series at all.

 

I did like those levels in 3D World though. If they had been described as the ones where you dash from left to right I'd definitely have remembered them.

 

Thanks for the explanation anyway.

[Pestneb]

Yes, but not much. To be quite honest I don't like the series at all.

 

I do wonder if that is the issue - people who didn't play/enjoy the snes mario kart much or even at all probably wouldn't have picked up on the music.

I think the music was the cue that made me pick up on everything else and put it together.

[Clownferret]

I think it's sad day when games like FIFA and CoD are considered more as 'System Sellers' then games like Zelda and Metroid.

 

Depends on the region. Certainly in Europe FIFA is without doubt a system seller. In North America Madden would be the same.

 

The problem Nintendo have is not so much that they need FIFA to sell consoles as their in-house titles have that pull, but more the fact that because they don't have FIFA if forces people into a choice if they are only going to buy one console. Do you prefer FIFA to Mario Kart?

 

If they do Switch right then they have potential to really put the brakes on future sales for Sony and Microsoft. If you've got the choice of a console that you can play anywhere, has Nintendo's in-house library and the main 3rd party releases why would you buy an alternative console that only ticks one of those boxes? But this is Nintendo and as much as I'm liking the idea of selling my PS4 and saving £40 per year going forward, I know I probably won't be able to.

 

I wish for the day when all consoles play the same media (like a CD player) and the console choice is purely about preference. How cool would Sony vs Microsoft ns Nintendo is a 3 way online COD battle.

[Pestneb]

I wish for the day when all consoles play the same media (like a CD player) and the console choice is purely about preference. How cool would Sony vs Microsoft ns Nintendo is a 3 way online COD battle.

 

I don't see why online gaming would have a need to segregate according to hardware.

This page loads up just fine on a mac, PC or linux machine. If a game is available on Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft consoles, I see no valid technical reason for not allowing a player with a PS4 to play against their friend with an Xbox, or a Nintendo console.

Obviously having closed systems works to the hardware manufacturers advantage, as it forces groups of friends to collectively choose the same hardware or to buy both... or just not get to play together.

Back to web pages... imagine if a website was only viewable from a apple device.. another only from a windows device etc. Crazy. I guess it is more akin to only being viewable from a particular browser, which does happen to a greater extent, but still is a rarity.

[Sheikah]

I do wonder if that is the issue - people who didn't play/enjoy the snes mario kart much or even at all probably wouldn't have picked up on the music.

I think the music was the cue that made me pick up on everything else and put it together.

 

I have played every Mario Kart and looking at images of the level there's no doubt I will have got the reference when playing it. I just didn't remember it.

[Happenstance]

I don't see why online gaming would have a need to segregate according to hardware.

This page loads up just fine on a mac, PC or linux machine. If a game is available on Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft consoles, I see no valid technical reason for not allowing a player with a PS4 to play against their friend with an Xbox, or a Nintendo console.

Obviously having closed systems works to the hardware manufacturers advantage, as it forces groups of friends to collectively choose the same hardware or to buy both... or just not get to play together.

Back to web pages... imagine if a website was only viewable from a apple device.. another only from a windows device etc. Crazy. I guess it is more akin to only being viewable from a particular browser, which does happen to a greater extent, but still is a rarity.

 

There was a good discussion on the Giant Bombcast recently about why its an issue with Adam Boyes. If I can find the clip I'll add it later but a lot of it boils down to friends lists not talking to each other properly. Yes they could have you playing with random people from other consoles but then the question was what is the point? You can just play with random people from the same console.