Malaysian plane crashes in Ukraine

[Fierce_LiNk]

Anybody else following this news, atm?

 

Link here.

 

Reports are saying that it was shot down. Travelling from the Netherlands to Kuala Lumpar, 295 on board. No survivors.

 

What's going on with this world?

[The Peeps]

Could still have been something wrong with the plane I guess. Until we know more we can't really blame it on terrorists... at the moment it's just speculation.

 

The head of the Russian Air Traffic Controllers' Union, Sergei Kovalyov, told BBC Russian that the airspace over eastern Ukraine had remained open during the conflict because the planes previously shot down had tended to be helicopters or low-flying fast jets.

 

"In order to bring down an airplane from an altitude of 10,000m, you need to have very serious weapons…. missiles," he said. "It's either a mistake or a terrorist act."

[Daft]

Between this and Isreali forces shelling children playing on a beach the other day, my faith in the current structures of power (and the people in charge) are at an all-time low.

[Zell]

From what I've been reading, Ukrainian rebels near Donetsk shot it down using some high tech missile that they must have got from the Russians. They shot it down by mistake thinking it was a military plane.

 

One of the rebel leaders apparently released a statement about downing a plane before removing it:

 

Screenshot

 

Translation (taken from Reddit):

 

AN-26 airplane was shot down near Torez, it fell somewhere behind the mine "Progress".

We warned - do not fly in "our sky".

And here is the video proof of another "bird-fall" (bird = slang for an airplane).

Another bird fell behind the spoil tip, residential areas were not affected.

No civilians were harmed.

 

Basically someone massively fucked up.

[Blaveloper]

According to local news it was taken down by pro-Russian separatists.

If that's true it means we're more separated from Asians than ever (think of conflicts in Ukraine, Israel, Syria and Iraq, then the only safe path to fly to an Asian or Oceanic country during the holidays is through the Americas (which yet again might take much longer to arrive on your destination) or through Turkey if it's even possible).

[Charlie]

According to local news it was taken down by pro-Russian separatists.

If that's true it means we're more separated from Asians than ever (think of conflicts in Ukraine, Israel, Syria and Iraq, then the only safe path to fly to an Asian or Oceanic country during the holidays is through the Americas (which yet again might take much longer to arrive on your destination) or through Turkey if it's even possible).

 

Planes fly over Iraq and Afghanistan all the time with no problems.

[Agent Gibbs]

I'm sorry i'm not normally so aggressively militaristic with things...but this really now calls for the UN to step in and shut down this situation in the Ukraine! the separatists are average joes, ex military, people from all walks of life but its quite clear they have no idea what they are doing to blindly shoot down an aircraft! worse still with medium range Russian Mobile sam sites that if used correctly would be able to identify the target!

 

I can only imagine some country bumpkins hipped up on booze and their own hubris sitting playing with their new toy that they've been using to down military aircraft all week and just blindly launching missiles on anything that moves! Its down right dangerous and they need wiping off the face of the earth, every last one of them involved

 

To boast on Twitter is disgusting, the phone transcripts leaked by the Ukrainian military is equally as shocking on showing how blaze they are, suggestions of spies if they fly over the Ukraine!

Someone anyone needs to bomb them back into oblivion, and frankly i could see the Russians doing it if there was even a hint of their involvement just to cover it up

[Jonnas]

Yeah, if a situation ever called for some serious, justified intervention, it's this. Not necessarily a military intervention, but a diplomatic one.

 

Bombing the rebels out of nowhere without some carefully treading is going to anger the Russians, and make things worse in Ukraine.

[Rummy]

But what if it's been done by the governments so we can blame the seperatists and step in eh? Eh?? EHH???!!

 

For now I'm witholding my judgements on the situation until more is known. I wonder how the airline's gonna fare after this and the earlier disappearance, but the tragedy of things like this is of course the loss of lives. Are there any reports on numbers there?

[Fierce_LiNk]

But what if it's been done by the governments so we can blame the seperatists and step in eh? Eh?? EHH???!!

 

For now I'm witholding my judgements on the situation until more is known. I wonder how the airline's gonna fare after this and the earlier disappearance, but the tragedy of things like this is of course the loss of lives. Are there any reports on numbers there?

 

Flight MH17 was carrying at least 189 Dutch nationals, 44 Malaysians (including 15 crew), 27 Australians, 12 Indonesians and nine Britons.

 

Other passengers came from Germany, Belgium, the Philippines, Canada and New Zealand.

 

Many of those killed were delegates on their way to an international conference on Aids in Melbourne, Australia.

 

Glenn Thomas, 49, a British media officer for the World Health Organisation (WHO), was among those who died.

 

"We have lost a wonderful person and a great professional," said WHO spokeswoman Fadela Chaib. "Our hearts are broken. We are all in shock."

 

Other stories of passengers and crew emerging include a Malaysia-Dutch family of five, a Dutch couple on their way to Bali, an Australian pathologist and his wife returning from a European holiday, as well as a Malaysian flight steward whose wife - who also works for Malaysia Airlines - had narrowly escaped death when she pulled out of a shift working on missing flight MH370.

 

Malaysia Airlines said it would release the full passenger manifest once all next of kin were informed.

 

Majority of these people were Dutch nationals.

[Agent Gibbs]

But what if it's been done by the governments so we can blame the seperatists and step in eh? Eh?? EHH???!!

 

For now I'm witholding my judgements on the situation until more is known. I wonder how the airline's gonna fare after this and the earlier disappearance, but the tragedy of things like this is of course the loss of lives. Are there any reports on numbers there?

 

 

So this is a false flag operation, where Russia/Ukraine hacked the well known and popular Separatist General's Twitter to stage his tweet, they then staged recorded phone calls matching the voice of this General, they then arranged for this General to go to ground, witnesses to witness the plane being shot down and separatist troops examining the wreckage AND managed to some how convince the Separatists to publicly secure the site, retrieve the black boxes and hold onto them.....oh AND for them to publicly not claim they were set up

 

Or The alternative

 

The Separatists who have been shooting down Ukrainian military planes all week, using Russian Buk medium range missiles supplied to them buy the Russians, were trigger happy indiscriminately targeting any aircraft without proper checks on their radar locks...shot down the plane thinking it was a cargo plane, bragged, investigated and shat themselves, then men involved went to ground while the rest denied involvement (because why would they publicly they'd invite military action on themselves)

 

I know which one seems the most obvious

 

Rummy i hope that was sarcasm (and heavily suspect it was, given you like the odd joke and you seem to be level headed) otherwise you need a Tinfoil hat

[Blaveloper]

When the whole world finally talks about the Netherlands as a whole, it's exactly about the many deaths.

Today we our TVs are filled with this one news (even NOS news got extended from 24 minutes to 50 minutes today because of that).

And it's the hottest day we had this year too (33 degrees).

 

All I can say is that Ukraine, the USA, the UK, the Netherlands, Australia, Germany and many more countries are right: it's all Russia's fault.

Only Russia denies it, which is just obvious.

Being half Polish, I hate Russia by nature. This news only hardened it.

[Rummy]

I know which one seems the most obvious

 

Rummy i hope that was sarcasm (and heavily suspect it was, given you like the odd joke and you seem to be level headed) otherwise you need a Tinfoil hat

 

Yeah it was mostly joking - but I do mean it - I reserve judgement. I try to keep a bit fo skepticism towards most things, because I know of the occasions when things have gone a bit wrong. I used to say to people I wouldn't be surprised if the big corporations and governments were keeping and watching all our data, and that it wasn't that hard to do, people thought I was just geeking out and then bam - prism reveal happens. Wasn't a shock to many of us, but it is to some.

 

Another bit of potentially blowing news - Over 100 HIV Experts And Advocates May Have Been On Board Crashed Malaysian Plane (referenced in Flink's quote too)

 

IF you do want to don your tinfoil hat - put it with the conspiracy that HIV was a government spread disease and you're really getting somewhere

 

(also I'm totally not arguing the conspiracy angle despite how it seems but here's something for a perusal - Ten Conspiracies That Actually Happened)

Edited July 18, 2014 by Rummy

[Agent Gibbs]

Another bit of potentially blowing news - Over 100 HIV Experts And Advocates May Have Been On Board Crashed Malaysian Plane (referenced in Flink's quote too)

 

IF you do want to don your tinfoil hat - put it with the conspiracy that HIV was a government spread disease and you're really getting somewhere

 

(also I'm totally not arguing the conspiracy angle despite how it seems but here's something for a perusal - Ten Conspiracies That Actually Happened)

 

the worst part is i could cynically believe drugs companies would do that to keep selling drugs, more than the make other country look bad thing.....

 

wheres my tinfoil hat

[Rummy]

the worst part is i could cynically believe drugs companies would do that to keep selling drugs, more than the make other country look bad thing.....

 

wheres my tinfoil hat

 

The drugs companies are some of the worse, very well illustrated in Ben Goldacre's book called Bad Pharma(also wrote 'Bad Science', name taken from a regular column he has by the same name in the guardian iirc). One notable case is of course that of the completely unreplicated MMR+Autism link claims. Bad Pharma is not easy reading, however. I'd highlight a small case of it though if i recall it correctly. Rosiglitazone (spoilered below to avoid too much off topic).

 

An anti-diabetic drug that targets/affects the direct diabetes(sugar/insulin) related issues was associated with increased cardiac related deaths from pre-market trial data, and the manufacturers/license holders knew that - yet they obscured and tried to hide the data from the regulation authorities. Some is still unavailable today. The reason it matters - the majority of deaths related to diabetes are actually cardiac related due to a knock on effect from the failing kidneys. We treat diabetes to essentially avoid heart failure not the kidney failure - yet they allowed a drug that increased that very risk to come to market despite knowledge of the fact itself -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosiglitazone

 

 

 

It's because of that and many other things I take a healthy dose of skepticism - I studied psychology and am otherwise associated with 'science' in many ways of my job - yet it can often be a strangely corrupt field behind a pasture of apparently legitimate presentation, in some ways. It isn't that the data lies, but the people with the vested interests do, both intentionally and otherwise. Human nature, I guess.

 

Another thing, potentially relevant to the conspiracy idea, to consider is that of the 'War on Terror' and the invasion made of Iraq. I have to admit I'm highly uneducated and naive on the matter - but I know that was something done by a western government with a very solid pretense, conviction, and party line that they had weapons of mass destruction. To date I don't believe these claims have been proved. I understand it to be a 'war' based and pursed completely on a lie - and the question remains to me always - why? Why did it happen, why did we do it, and how is it that no one has really answered for it?

 

/ramblerambleramle #tinfoilhat

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Imagine how fucking grotesque and unreal that moment must have been for the passengers... I just lose faith in human beings.

 

However, if we feel Russia is to blame for supplying the weapons and causing chaos outside of their nation - then the west has to answer for a lot.

 

 

All hypocrites. All messed up.

[yesteryeargames]

Putin needs to be put in his place ,these terrorist Russian Rebels need clearing out of Ukraine . They have no right to be there in the first place .

[Blaveloper]

Countries in a nut-sell.