Wii U: Abundance of 2D games?

[Retro_Link]

People say that, but that's contrary to what Miyamoto has said. He has said that it is deep in development and will be ready within a year. They wouldn't be saying that if they were looking for someone to develop a game

Not people, Miyamoto himself to the press. Everyone's reported it the same way.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/e3-2014-nintendo-wii-u-star-fox-hands-on-and-miyamoto-q-a/1100-6420327/

 

Miyamoto said, "This is a game that we've developed internally up until now, but because we do want to bring this to market very soon, we are looking at some potential partner companies that we can team up with." However, Miyamoto also assured fans that he "will be directly in charge of the project," regardless of what other studio Nintendo partners with.

http://kotaku.com/we-played-shigeru-miyamotos-new-star-fox-game-1588712327

 

We're planning to complete the game in a year." Confusingly, though, he also said that Nintendo is seeking development partners on it, making it sound like the game is far, far from done.P

http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/10/5795960/star-fox-wii-u-nintendo-miyamoto

 

He said he hopes to finish the game within a year, and his team is looking to partner with an outside company to help speed up development.

[Serebii]

Ah, to speed up development, not to take it over. All about wording.

[Retro_Link]

Ah, to speed up development, not to take it over. All about wording.

No one said anything about taking it over.

[Grazza]

Yeah, I completely agree with the premise of this thread.

 

As Nintendo fans, we give attention to everything they come up with. Take a step back, however, and if you look at it from a wider-industry point of view, only Zelda stood out from this E3. All the news sites were reporting "Nintendo Unveils New Legend of Zelda" or similar, and people are getting genuinely excited about it. It's going to sell Wii Us. That's because you can look at one screenshot and think about how you're going to travel to all the locations in the distance, what tools and weapons you're going to use, etc.

 

Now imagine if Nintendo had got its other teams to develop less games, but ones as exciting as Zelda. Could be Metroid, could be a new take on Kid Icarus, could be Ice Climber or something new but the key thing is they need to have that same sort of exploration, adventure and aspiration as Zelda.

 

If you look at the 2D games or the "mascot" platformers like Yoshi, Kirby or Donkey Kong, they don't have that sense of finding new places or, as I say, deciding what weapons or tools to apply. Now don't get me wrong, I love 2D, but I'd rather have it as proper sprite/pixel art games on a handheld. A powerful console gives the potential for so much more.

 

I suppose a lot of this is because of Nintendo:

 

a) having to support the Wii U by itself

b) feeling the need to prove the GamePad

 

In both cases you see lots of cheaper, quicker and (frankly) less interesting games, when really they could so with some more system sellers.

[Glen-i]

...

 

 

Glen-i, meet Serebii.

 

I didn't say I don't like 2D games before anyone starts picking up on that.

 

Then again, I think @Serebii and I have very different opinions on things in general.

 

My favourite psychic Pokemon happens to be Grumpig. I've heard he's not exactly the biggest fan...

 

(Love the site though, would be lost without all that glorious stat information)

[Serebii]

I didn't say I don't like 2D games before anyone starts picking up on that.

 

Then again, I think @Serebii and I have very different opinions on things in general.

 

My favourite psychic Pokemon happens to be Grumpig. I've heard he's not exactly the biggest fan...

 

(Love the site though, would be lost without all that glorious stat information)

Grumpig sucks :p

[Glen-i]

My favourite psychic Pokemon happens to be Grumpig. I've heard he's not exactly the biggest fan...

 

Grumpig sucks :p

 

Seems I heard right.

 

I also think that you are WRONG AND FALSE AND BAD!

 

OK, yeah. As far as battles go, it's pretty bleh.

But I don't care. It's so swag, it's been a part of my main team since 3rd gen. It's that cool!

 

Anyway...

Some of my favourite WiiU games are 2D.

OK, NSMBU is a bit bland, but NSLU is probably my favourite Mario platformer ever! Donkey Kong is sublime. And Yarn Yoshi and Kirby have me hyped.

(Are we counting Smash Bros in this? There's a 2D game that's sure to sell a few WiiU's)

[Guy]

I'm all for 2D or 2.5D platformers as long as they don't have New Super Mario Bros in the title.

[Shorty]

They're a lot of fun, but sometimes they feel rushed, like an easy way to cheaply get a game out. In the N64 and GC days, we had an abundance of awesome 3D platformers, a great time to be a platformer fan, especially with Rare on board.

 

Mario 64 was a big step forward, and so it's difficult for me not to see big budget 2D platformers as a step backwards. I understand when indie studios do it, I understand when Nintendo makes the odd one, but I think it's gone a bit too far.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Shorty

[Wii]

All these 2D games but there's no Metroid game. I would love to see a Super Metroid style game. I'd take it any day of a leap year over a first person version. That would be number 1 on my wishlist.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Having an abundance of platformers isn't a bad thing. In fact, it's a strength...provided that there's diversity and a variety of other genres. At the moment, there aren't. Maybe Nintendo like creating them because they're good at them and they're easily accessible. Although, just how many Kirby or Mario games do we need?!

[dazzybee]

I'm sick of people calling the new kirby a 2d platformer. It isn't. It's a very unique and brilliant genre (going off the original). Is it a 2d overload... Maybe, but I don't see that as a bad thing in anyway. What is bad is the sheer volume of platformers!

[Wii]

We all know why Nintendo are going with 2D games. It's their bread & butter, nobody does them better but it's also Nintendo being cheap. It's much easier & quicker to churn these out than large scale 3D games. Weigh them up, cost vs reward. NSMBU against say GTA 5?

[Sheikah]

So the Wii U is becoming the new SNES in terms of 2D platformers and this is a BAD thing?

 

100% SNES games naturally worked when it was the SNES era (not that the Wii U is 100%, but you get my point). SNES-like games still work now, but there's no doubt if you're producing too much of it and not enough 3D games then people won't be happy if we're talking about a modern console capable of doing much more. 3D games are generally perceived as the ones pushing the boundaries and the ones that affirm people's decisions to jump onto the next generation (as in, why is new hardware necessary to run 2D games). Nintendo need less 2D and more 3D games.

[Wii]

100% SNES games naturally worked when it was the SNES era (not that the Wii U is 100%, but you get my point). SNES-like games still work now, but there's no doubt if you're producing too much of it and not enough 3D games then people won't be happy if we're talking about a modern console capable of doing much more. 3D games are generally perceived as the ones pushing the boundaries and the ones that affirm people's decisions to jump onto the next generation (as in, why is new hardware necessary to run 2D games). Nintendo need less 2D and more 3D games.

 

Yeah, that's another reason I have little to no time for indies bar a few. If I wanted SNES games, I'd buy a SNES.

[Blade]

Don't mind 2D platformers but now I am sick to death of them. Come on Nintendo you are capable of other genres!!

[Helmsly]

I love 2D platformers but i feels like there is little alternative to them in the overall library of the console, which i think is a bad thing.

 

I'm fine with the number of 2D platformers the Wii U had but there really should be a wider variety of games on offer by now.

[Serebii]

I love 2D platformers but i feels like there is little alternative to them in the overall library of the console, which i think is a bad thing.

 

I'm fine with the number of 2D platformers the Wii U had but there really should be a wider variety of games on offer by now.

Come now, there was a wide range of 3D content at E3 away from 2D platformers

 

Splatoon

Captain Toad's Treasure Trackers

Bayonetta 1/2

Smash Bros (Shut up, I'm counting it)

Devil's Third

Hyrule Warriors

The Legend of Zelda Wii U

Mario Party 10

Xenoblade Chronicles X

Project Giant Robot

Project Guard

StarFox

Skylanders

Sonic Boom

Just Dance

Lego Batman 3

Disney Infinity

Pac-Man & The Ghostly Adventures

Various indie titles

 

Compared to

Yoshi's Woolly World

Kirby (It's not technically a platformer)

Mario Maker

Mario VS DK

Indie titles

 

It's not like there was an abundance shown this year.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Serebii

[Dcubed]

The problem with them making sidescrollers is not that they're inherently bad, but rather that having a large focus on them gives the impression that they're not putting their full effort behind their console...

 

Like this quib below...

 

We all know why Nintendo are going with 2D games. It's their bread & butter, nobody does them better but it's also Nintendo being cheap. It's much easier & quicker to churn these out than large scale 3D games. Weigh them up, cost vs reward. NSMBU against say GTA 5?

 

...which is a complete pile of horseshit. Nintendo spend around 2-3 years developing these "cheap" and "easy to churn out" 2D games and the size of the teams who work on them is just as large as the teams who work on their so-called "grand" 3D games. The problem is that a lot of these people look down upon these 2D games because they've been conditioned to think that they're inferior ever since the PS1/N64 era.

 

It's something that Nintendo have been trying to fight ever since they revived the genre on consoles with the Wii, but inevitably this preconception is going to continue to haunt 2D games (especially given how many low priced "indie" titles just happen to focus on 2D gameplay), so long as every other major 3rd party and console manufacturer continues to value production values over everything else and encourage people to think that 2D games are somehow "inferior" to 3D games.

 

I applaud Nintendo for continuing to make the kinds of games they want to make, regardless of what people might think of them, but it's not a good look for them...

[Wii]

I had NSMBU in mind when I was talking about them being lazy. I doubt very much that game spent 3 years in development. There's a reason that was ready for launch and there's no way it's development team was the size of GTA 5. Their individual marketing campaigns was another contrast in expenditure.

 

And what lazy green effort followed it shortly out the door that was essentially DLC with a slapped on €40 price tag?

[S.C.G]

Regarding the 'SNES' comment, all I meant was that it's nice to see a lot of 2D potential classics - just like we had in the SNES era - being brought to life in new ways with all these modern rendering techniques etc; for instance the wool in the new Yoshi title and the fantastic claymation used in Kirby. : peace:

 

Of course a console needs a balance of good 2D games and 3D games but I don't have any doubts that the Wii U will receive a good mix.

 

I'm equally excited by these new 2D titles as I am about playing new 3D titles, they're all surely going to be fantastic, exclusive experiences.

 

But of course I can appreciate the fact that many are getting annoyed at the thought of 'another 2D platformer' coming out, costing the same amount to make as a 3D title, platfomers might not attract a certain crowd to the Wii U but then Nintendo's job is as much about keeping their existing audience interested as it is to attract new buyers; admittedly they need as many people to buy the Wii U as possible right now though I still think it's early days even at this point.

[Dcubed]

I had NSMBU in mind when I was talking about them being lazy. I doubt very much that game spent 3 years in development. There's a reason that was ready for launch and there's no way it's development team was the size of GTA 5. Their individual marketing campaigns was another contrast in expenditure.

 

And what lazy green effort followed it shortly out the door that was essentially DLC with a slapped on €40 price tag?

 

You would be very wrong...

 

The game started development when NSMB Wii shipped, using the existing NSMB Wii engine to prototype new gameplay ideas. It was first shown as "New Super Mario Bros Mii" back at E3 2011 firstly as a Wii U tech demo...

 

 

Also, not counting debug or localisation staff, 89 people worked on Super Mario Galaxy; while 91 people worked on New Super Mario Bros U; so no, the dev team for a 2D Mario game is not necessarily smaller than the team that works on a 3D game...

Edited June 15, 2014 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

You can't say that having more staff or taking more overall time to release a game actually means more effort was put into it. I would be incredibly surprised if more effort was put into making NSMBU, a game in a well established series, than Galaxy.

 

In terms of NSMBU, the format is already laid down and there is next to no originality on show; it's pretty much the same thing we've seen before but with Miiverse integration. It wouldn't surprise me that more staff are used these days, though, as that often seems to be the case.

 

...which is a complete pile of horseshit. Nintendo spend around 2-3 years developing these "cheap" and "easy to churn out" 2D games and the size of the teams who work on them is just as large as the teams who work on their so-called "grand" 3D games. The problem is that a lot of these people look down upon these 2D games because they've been conditioned to think that they're inferior ever since the PS1/N64 era.

 

I'm going to pull this out because I very much disagree. Nobody continues to like 3D games because they're conditioned to (I've no idea where you got that from); they continue to like them because I think a lot of people genuinely prefer them, in most settings. 3D knocks down the limitations imposed by 2D; it's allows for a more true level of exploration and helps massively with the sense of immersion you can have with a game. Not only that, 3D benefits far more greatly from graphical improvement; when people buy a new next gen console, they want to see their purchases justified with games heavily improved from the previous generations.

 

When the N64 hit, people hadn't really played 3D games before and couldn't really be classed as conditioned, yet they lapped up 3D games. Not just because of novelty, as people very much enjoyed 3D games from that point, and continued to like them. Contrast this to something like the Wii motion controls - they were popular in the generation they were released but inarguably haven't really stuck so well. I believe that for something to stick it has to actually continue to be demanded for or be liked by people.

 

I'd also argue from a personal point of view that 3D actually enhanced Nintendo's games. To me, both 3D Mario platfotmer and kart games as well as Zelda titles benefited immensely from 3D and helped bring their their respective worlds to life.

 

While there are many 2D games I like, I can't really deny that a good number of 3D titles do excite me greatly and I would like to see a tipping of the balance the other way from Nintendo.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Sheikah

[Wii]

You can't say that having more staff or taking more overall time to release a game actually means more effort was put into it. I would be incredibly surprised if more effort was put into making NSMBU, a game in a well established series, than Galaxy.

 

In terms of NSMBU, the format is already laid down and there is next to no originality on show; it's pretty much the same thing we've seen before but with Miiverse integration. It wouldn't surprise me that more staff are used these days, though, as that often seems to be the case.

 

 

 

I'm going to pull this out because I very much disagree. Nobody continues to like 3D games because they're conditioned to (I've no idea where you got that from); they continue to like them because I think a lot of people genuinely prefer them, in most settings. 3D knocks down the limitations imposed by 2D; it's allows for a more true level of exploration and helps massively with the sense of immersion you can have with a game. Not only that, 3D benefits far more greatly from graphical improvement; when people buy a new next gen console, they want to see their purchases justified with games heavily improved from the previous generations.

 

When the N64 hit, people hadn't really played 3D games before and couldn't really be classed as conditioned, yet they lapped up 3D games. Not just because of novelty, as people very much enjoyed 3D games from that point, and continued to like them. Contrast this to something like the Wii motion controls - they were popular in the generation they were released but inarguably haven't really stuck so well. I believe that for something to stick it has to actually continue to be demanded for or be liked by people.

 

I'd also argue from a personal point of view that 3D actually enhanced Nintendo's games. To me, both 3D Mario platfotmer and kart games as well as Zelda titles benefited immensely from 3D and helped bring their their respective worlds to life.

 

While there are many 2D games I like, I can't really deny that a good number of 3D titles do excite me greatly and I would like to see a tipping of the balance the other way from Nintendo.

 

Ah but you're forgetting how NSMBU was really innovative and pushed the gamepads features by placing platforms within the game. Start as you mean to continue and they did.

[Hogge]

Come now, there was a wide range of 3D content at E3 away from 2D platformers

 

Splatoon

Captain Toad's Treasure Trackers

Bayonetta 1/2

Smash Bros (Shut up, I'm counting it)

Devil's Third

Hyrule Warriors

The Legend of Zelda Wii U

Mario Party 10

Xenoblade Chronicles X

Project Giant Robot

Project Guard

StarFox

Skylanders

Sonic Boom

Just Dance

Lego Batman 3

Disney Infinity

Pac-Man & The Ghostly Adventures

Various indie titles

 

Compared to

Yoshi's Woolly World

Kirby (It's not technically a platformer)

Mario Maker

Mario VS DK

Indie titles

 

It's not like there was an abundance shown this year.

 

Sure, Nintendo have improved, but let's look at what's already come out:

 

2D

Mario Bros U

Luigi U

Dr. Luigi

Donkey Kong Country Returns

NES Remix 1

NES Remix 2

 

 

3D

Mario Kart 8

Pikmin 3

Mario 3D World

Game & Wario

Nintendoland

Wii Sports Club

Wind Waker HD

 

Uncategorised

Wii Fit U (1D?)

 

 

With so much 2D content already out, the Wii U has filled its quota of 2D for... well, as long as it takes Nintendo to win back the major third parties. And since blokes like lists, here are games Nintendo can make, which are going to sell well and shift systems, IF DONE RIGHT.

 

Metroid

Waverace

1080

Excitebike

F-Zero

Pilotwings

A proper 3D Mario game (3D World is okay, but doesen't hold a candle against SM64)

Pokémon Stadium