Posted March 4, 2016 If the game didn't have motion controls, wouldn't in basically just be Lylat Wars again..? I'm genuinely excited at the prospect of a new control scheme to play around with, much like how I was desperately waiting for Pro Evolution Soccer on Wii to be released to see how it all felt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 If the game didn't have motion controls, wouldn't in basically just be Lylat Wars again..? And....? Lyle Wars, prettier, with a new story and levels... Sounds like it's exactly what we wanted!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 If the game didn't have motion controls, wouldn't in basically just be Lylat Wars again..? And there'd be nothing wrong with that. in fact, it would be freaking amazing. It's what every body wanted, just like @dazzybee said. I doubt motion controls add anything special or good to this game... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 If the game didn't have motion controls, wouldn't in basically just be Lylat Wars again..? And? The thing is, innovation is a great thing when it adds something better or improves on an existing formula. But trying to innovate and force new control schemes into something that is basically perfect and doesn't require it is pointless and actually damages the product. Ever since Lylat Wars Nintendo have tried different things with Star Fox. But really all everyone wanted was more of Lylat Wars with better graphics, new levels and the benefit of a huge boost in power. But nooooo, Nintendo can't do that, it's too simple. They need a second screen and gyro controls. No one asked for this, no one really wants it. We just want a proper sequel to Lylat Wars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 I also think that in this series it is quite easier to make it fresh and new with each new game - space battles - the one area of games where making it more epic should be a no brainer! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I doubt motion controls add anything special or good to this game... You would be very wrong... Not only does it allow for much faster and more accurate controls (see the difference between Metroid Prime 3 and 1/2 or Sin & Punishment 2 vs 1 for what that means for level/enemy design), but it also allows you to aim off screen (including behind you; which is required in some parts of the game according to Gamexplain). The two screens are used all throughout as you have to keep track of both at the same time as well; so you have to have aiming independent of movement. Something you can't really do with twin sticks accurately enough (plus you wouldn't be able to brake/speed up/somersault etc because the right stick is used for those actions and if they moved those to the buttons, you wouldn't be able to aim with the right stick while doing any manoeuvres at all anyway). The game is completely designed around them, just like Skyward Sword, or Kid Icarus Uprising (for its touch controls). It would not work at all without them (which is why the only support the Pro Controller gets is in co-op; where one player still has to use the Gamepad anyway). Edited March 4, 2016 by Dcubed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 I was thinking about getting it as it was basically another Lylat Wars. Then I found out you had to us the motion/gyro controls and I changed my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) The two screens are used all throughout as you have to keep track of both at the same time as well So you have to alternate between looking at the TV and the Gamepad? If so, that's horrible. plus you wouldn't be able to brake/speed up/somersault etc because the right stick is used for those actions and if they moved those to the buttons, you wouldn't be able to aim with the right stick while doing any manoeuvres at all anyway With the right button configuration it would be doable. Take a look at CoD Black Ops III for example. Standard controls: X - jump, L1 - tactical grenade, L3 - Melee attack, Circle - crouch/slide; with this, when you jump/slide (crucial movements in this game) you have to take your right thumb away from the stick, meaning you can't aim during those movements Alternate controls: X - tactical grenade, L1 - jump, L3 - crouch/slide, circle - melee; here you can do all the movements while aiming and it works great; for grenades and melee attacks you don't have to aim, as you generally use those while you're already having you target in sight What I'm getting at - mind you, I don't know what incredibly complex movements and actions StarFox might have - I think with the right configuration everything can be done without the gamepad. As for the second screen for aiming behind you: Just have a smaller portion of the display on the TV reserved for a rear view Edited March 4, 2016 by drahkon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 I'm pretty sure, hoping, that in the main levels you don't have to look (Unless you hunt secrets maybe), but in the all range mode you do. I'm sort of okay with that I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 Depends what you class as 'main levels'. Levels that require you to drop things like bombs and use the gyrocopter thing will require it. As for pure Arwing levels, wonder how many there'll be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 And....? Lyle Wars, prettier, with a new story and levels... Sounds like it's exactly what we wanted!! Don't get me wrong.. I would have been delighted with a Lylat Wars 2 with new stages and no mention of motion controls but the fact that Zero is a slightly different take on the familiar N64 game (already wonderfully updated for 3DS) then the standard controls may have made it feel too familiar. At least having a new way to play will shake things up a bit You might even like it.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 They should've just made a Star Fox that was more like Rogue Squadron. Keep the on-rails bits as that's classic Star Fox, but expand it so the free roaming bits aren't just some of the boss battles/fights against Star Wolf. (Note: I never played Assault/Command, so I have no idea if they're actually like this!) I played the demo of this at a Nintendo event and the gyro aiming felt way too awkward and unnatural. No game's controls, especially one from Nintendo who pride themselves on being accessible to all, should be a barrier to entry, and unfortunately for me, it felt like I was fighting against the controls. Maybe they've improved, who knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 I imagine that it will be like Splatoon. If they thought about it - you could play that with the pro controller. You can play it with the pro controller... in multiplayer... Yeah, it's the thing which makes me nervous, I think most of us just wanted a pure arcade shooter; but hopefully they nail it. I imagine there'll be things you need to shoot OFF TV maybe, or the game is so difficult you need that level of control... Who knows. It could just be PR talk and it could easily be done without it. Except the all range mode, which seems pretty essential, but then just make those levels with forced motion.... Maybe they'll provide dlc mission packs with missions that give more focus to certain elements... I wouldn't mind a mk8 200cc esque arcade shooter mission... like the arwings aren't available, but the old style ones (snes) are... And? The thing is, innovation is a great thing when it adds something better or improves on an existing formula. But trying to innovate and force new control schemes into something that is basically perfect and doesn't require it is pointless and actually damages the product. Ever since Lylat Wars Nintendo have tried different things with Star Fox. But really all everyone wanted was more of Lylat Wars with better graphics, new levels and the benefit of a huge boost in power. But nooooo, Nintendo can't do that, it's too simple. They need a second screen and gyro controls. No one asked for this, no one really wants it. We just want a proper sequel to Lylat Wars. I think the co-op version works well... it's a bit like a bomber with a gun turret. And actually I think that could have been awesome.. having a squad go online (a bit like the kirby game) and you have a bomber (with gun turret!) which goes slowly, while you have arwing fighters that have to protect your bomber. But yes... forcing it onto the single player hopefully isn't a huge issue. Until I get hands on with the game though I won't judge.. for example Fast Neo looks a lot slower as a spectator than it does as a player, so I am hoping it is a case of that in this instance too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 You can play it with the pro controller... in multiplayer...! Yeah I know but they could have used it in the main game if you could jump to other players using the dpad and did something different with taunts. You can use the map to assess that risk - but the map could have been in a corner of the screen in that case. it would not have taken much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 Don't get me wrong.. I would have been delighted with a Lylat Wars 2 with new stages and no mention of motion controls but the fact that Zero is a slightly different take on the familiar N64 game (already wonderfully updated for 3DS) then the standard controls may have made it feel too familiar. At least having a new way to play will shake things up a bit You might even like it.. Ha, I'm easy to please, I'll probably love it; but I guess when something is different to what you really want (and we haven't had one in 20 years) and that difference sounds a bit shit and by all accounts is the one thing which is pretty decisive, it becomes a little heartbreaking. Hopefully, like you say, it's all amazing and we can't believe we were ever worried! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 But nooooo, Nintendo can't do that, it's too simple. They need a second screen and gyro controls. No one asked for this, no one really wants it. We just want a proper sequel to Lylat Wars. I made reference to this in the Direct thread but I think the problem is we did ask for this. When Shiggsy first mentioned this at e3 2014, it was when everyone was criticising Nintendo for not doing anything with the game pad bar off TV play. So borne from that was Project Guard, Project Robot, Mario Maker etc, with this falling into that category. I'm not saying I agree with it, you should be able to switch them off (after all Nintendo love multiple control options!) and it is too little too late really, however I can understand where Nintendo are coming from and why they're so keen to stick with this idea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 But are gyro controls really an innovative use of the GamePad? What happened to placing it on the floor for golf*, asynchronous gameplay (post launch titles), sharing the screen etc? It was a nice idea and a fun experiment but it seems even Nintendo never really figured out how to use it so I'd be happy for it to not return in the NX *golf is rubbish so I'm fine with that, but the idea was something Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 Well indeed, I'm not sure they are, certainly not revolutionary, my point was merely that these controls came from a time when Nintendo quickly realised even they didn't know what to do with the game pad, so had to get something going sharpish (two years later...) I agree though, hopefully NX will do away with these sort of attempts to innovate. I'd bloody miss off TV play, though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 4, 2016 What happened to placing it on the floor for golf* Wii Sports Club actually has that. I think a lot of games have had reduced effort on the GamePad because of how popular off-TV play seemed to be. So, apart from a handful of games, developers didn't want to filly utilise the two screens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I forgot about that in Wii Sports Club, it's a shame that game was a bust as online Wii Sports could have been awesome. From what I remember though, it was awful, like... Worse than Mario Kart DS online. You couldn't even exit the search screen! If you changed your mind after 30 seconds of searching and not finding anyone you just had to... Wait for the game to let you free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 If the game didn't have motion controls, wouldn't in basically just be Lylat Wars again..? Only if Nintendo would completely ignore all the features that have become commonplace in the past 20 years. Frankly, all I want is an evolved version of Lylat Wars. As I've said before, gimmicks are good if you milk the crap out of your games with annual iterations. Nintendo need to behave like a console manufacturer and a world-class game developer, not like some inexperienced, strapped for cash indies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) But are gyro controls really an innovative use of the GamePad? What happened to placing it on the floor for golf*, asynchronous gameplay (post launch titles), sharing the screen etc? It was a nice idea and a fun experiment but it seems even Nintendo never really figured out how to use it so I'd be happy for it to not return in the NX *golf is rubbish so I'm fine with that, but the idea was something To be fair, simplifying Starfox's usage to just "gyro controls" is a bit disingenuous. It's a lot more than that. You can have a full field of view on the GamePad while navigating on the TV. It's the asynchronous gameplay you mentioned Edited March 5, 2016 by Serebii Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Well indeed, I'm not sure they are, certainly not revolutionary, my point was merely that these controls came from a time when Nintendo quickly realised even they didn't know what to do with the game pad, so had to get something going sharpish (two years later...) I agree though, hopefully NX will do away with these sort of attempts to innovate. I'd bloody miss off TV play, though! If the handheld and home console are more like brothers I don't see why they couldn't support off tv play using the handheld. I mean they've shown the 3ds and Wii U chat to each other fine as is, so as long as the new handheld is similar... maybe even having an HDMI port to accept the incoming video signal from the Wii U? I mean I think that would be the best way for Nintendo to support bc for wii u games that "need" the game pad.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Nintendo should just give me a choice. Don't scrap motion controls but give me the opportunity to switch them off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 To be fair, simplifying Starfox's usage to just "gyro controls" is a bit disingenuous. It's a lot more than that. You can have a full field of view on the GamePad while navigating on the TV. It's the asynchronous gameplay you mentioned I meant asynchronous in terms of different people having different gameplay, not one person having different views but I see where you're coming from. Even if the latter does exist on other consoles too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
