Hogge

Super Mario Maker

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I'm going to ultimately aim for one of each theme for each version, but will settle for one great level a version. I'm trying to decide whether an overall theme for a level or some sort of multi-style level is best (current one switches style every field like an obstacle course).

 

Well, if it's any help, I go for the "One theme for one level approach" whenever possible. If it's good enough for Nintendo, it's good enough for me.

 

Finished my "World 3" now, will be posting it up tomorrow.

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um.. amiibo costumes 14 and 24.. look.. identical :|

Are there any differences between the two???

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um.. amiibo costumes 14 and 24.. look.. identical :|

Are there any differences between the two???

Yep, it's very subtle though:

 

URlcWYJ.png

24 is Yarn Yoshi. :hehe:

 

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Yep, it's very subtle though:

 

URlcWYJ.png

24 is Yarn Yoshi. :hehe:

 

Different sound effects too.

 

I've finally caught up on N-Europe's levels! Hooray!

Anyway, I've uploaded my next world. G3-3 is one I'm particularly proud of.

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I haven't spent much time with the 100-Mario Challenge but I played through once on 'Easy' and once on 'Normal' today and, out of 24 stages, I'm not sure if I played any that I would consider to be good :hmm: Most people don't seem to know what makes a level fun :nono:

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is it possible to put certain bricks in the background that are non touchable? Sure I've seen some bricks that are darker colour online and non touchable .

Edited by yesteryeargames

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mis it possible to put certain bricks in the background that are non touchable? Sure I've seen some bricks that are darker colour online and non touchable .

 

You might be thinking of the semi-solid blocks. Depending on the type of level you're making, some of these look like bricks. Experiment, and don't forget to shake them a few times to see what you get.

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Made my way through Cube's(bar the Arwing) levels this morning and some of Glen-I's(sure I did someone else's too but can't recall now). Also spent some time making last night - still only unlocked like 3 rows worth of stuff annoyingly.

 

I'm finding the 'game' somewhat interesting. Thinking about Mario from a design point of view and encountering things is intriguing. One thing I find strange - is how much stuff actually just seems to work. My mate had a quick play around yesterday and whilst his level isn't terrible sophisticated(Simon's Jam, one of the only two I've uploaded) it was amusing enough for both the way some of the things went, but also how three different people approached it.

 

Speaking of approach as well - I find it intriguing how conditioned we are to get coins and do stuff! I suppose speedrunners are already use to ignoring a lot of level elements, but for a game that's essentially the big original, and often thought of, linear platformer - there's actually lots of stuff in levels that you often simply just don't need to do, but doing so easily leads to one's downfall.

 

Having said that - one thing I feel the game does lack in some ways is a greater sense of reward. 1-Ups are somewhat meaningless(less so in previous Mario games, though I'd say in recent years I've never gotten to a point of actually getting a game over), and beyond simply completing a level - it feels there isn't much motivation for doing so, or finding things within the level. Without stats, records etc. it can seem a bit bland and over-saturated with crap for those who are more players than makers. I guess the gameplay is its own reward - but it isn't feeling quite enough for me at times.

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I have played a lot of levels and I think there are two rewards structures that really work well in the game.

 

The first is just touching a spot and having it play a sound effect or kick of some other visual event. Of course you have to know you are looking for it, but some people put miiverse comments in their own stage to help you realise. I believe that @RedShell does this with the smiley face for each level.

 

The second is to make a hard level with sparse power ups available. Actually exploring and finding a better power up (fire flower instead of the mushroom you might normally get for example) can give a palpable sense of satisfaction/relief if the level is difficult enough.

 

Also, I would just add that playing the speed run challenge on this forum helped me appreciate some of the finer details in levels I had missed when I first played the levels before the competition. Trying to get through the levels as quickly as possible helped my motivation to explore as well.

Edited by peterl0

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I have played a lot of levels and I think there are two rewards structures that really work well in the game.

 

The first is just touching a spot and having it play a sound effect or kick of some other visual event. Of course you have to know you are looking for it, but some people put miiverse comments in their own stage to help you realise. I believe that @RedShell does this with the smiley face for each level.

 

The second is to make a hard level with sparse power ups available. Actually exploring and finding a better power up (fire flower instead of the mushroom you might normally get for example) can give a palpable sense of satisfaction/relief if the level is difficult enough.

 

Also, I would just add that playing the speed run challenge on this forum helped me appreciate some of the finer details in levels I had missed when I first played the levels before the competition. Trying to get through the levels as quickly as possible helped my motivation to explore as well.

 

I probably haven't played as much, but can definitely see where you're coming from for the first in terms of sound effects/visuals etc.

 

For the second...I can see it being frustrating for some(an issue I had with some of Cube's levels actually, though I've beaten all bar one on principle). If you're faced with a super tough level - what's the incentive to beat it? You can easily skip levels if you like, or just jack it in and play another - by the nature of the title you're never going to go short. With older mario games you had to play tough levels - because you were often not given another option. The flipside applies that you often WERE given another option in terms of say SMB1/2 warp zones, SMB3 mutliple paths, SMW Star road+mutliple paths etc BUT there was still points within all where your options at times could be really limited - the only thing that kept you going was to keep on going so you keep on going! There's no 'keeping on' in SMM because no 'path' is there tying things together.

 

Personally my own design plan going forward(which is still formulating, and probably going to change, plus depends on actual motivation to create) will be to have either multiple options open to the player - or optional useless but rewarding feeling bits(something which is in my first level, basics 1-2), or if there has to be hard parts at least some token reward there - be it a power up or coins or a 1-up or what. In one of Cube's levels there was a bit where I fell, and there was a bit of a run right, before I realised I was in a dead end - something as simple as a bunch of coins, 1-up, coin block there etc could have made me feel less annoyed for wasting my time - despite such a thing, in actual fact, being completely of no consequence. Though I'm throwing back to my previous point here basically.

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@Rummy my first bunch of levels are pretty poor. The latest two (Ground or Air? and Pipe House) are the two I think that are actually good levels.

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I've found the option to attach the bowser or toad music to Mario so it plays through the whole level which is pretty neat, I just wish there were more songs to choose from because whilst I LOVE the editing music, constantly hearing that same original theme when actually playing is driving me insane.

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Personally my own design plan going forward(which is still formulating, and probably going to change, plus depends on actual motivation to create) will be to have either multiple options open to the player - or optional useless but rewarding feeling bits(something which is in my first level, basics 1-2), or if there has to be hard parts at least some token reward there - be it a power up or coins or a 1-up or what. In one of Cube's levels there was a bit where I fell, and there was a bit of a run right, before I realised I was in a dead end - something as simple as a bunch of coins, 1-up, coin block there etc could have made me feel less annoyed for wasting my time - despite such a thing, in actual fact, being completely of no consequence. Though I'm throwing back to my previous point here basically.

 

Almost all my levels have this, an optional tricky challenge that rewards you with a 1-up (Amiibo Mushroom if it's in the SMB style). Either that, or it's hidden along the way.

 

Striking a balance between do-able and fun is very tricky, it definitely has made me appreciate level designers more. So far, I've been making levels that are possible to complete without even running, I'm assuming that the player has never played a Mario game before, and I feel my levels are better for it.

 

But now that I've done 4 "Worlds", I'm gonna introduce the concept of running, which will allow me to start making more demanding levels.

 

As for your previous point of most things being of no consequence, it's a valid point, but I honestly can't see a way that this kind of game could implement that and still allow the amount of freedom it gives.

It's part of the package and it can't be helped.

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Yeah, I've enjoyed your designs that I've played so far @Glen\-i.

 

In terms of rewards - possibly something more for the players side rather than creators. Being able to see someone's most played levels? Total levels played? Completed/Abandoned? Times for levels? Something to motivate people to play and complete - just feel that nothing really exists to encourage that atm. No big deal, and doesn't destroy the game as obvs people will still be playing levels etc - but it could be a good extra on top.

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I would definitely like to see the "star coin" added as DLC. Maximum 3 per level, with icons under the "completed" flag to show if you've collected them. or not.

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I would definitely like to see the "star coin" added as DLC. Maximum 3 per level, with icons under the "completed" flag to show if you've collected them. or not.

 

That's exactly what I've wanted since I got the game. We need to get vocal on Miiverse about it :grin:

 

It would also be nice to create your own '10-Mario Challenge' worlds with 8 of your own uploaded levels for people to beat.. with no skipping stages!

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It would also be nice to create your own '10-Mario Challenge' worlds with 8 of your own uploaded levels for people to beat.. with no skipping stages!

 

That's quite a good idea.

I wonder if I could use the fact that Ninty are blatently spying on me to get them to think about it more.

 

*Ahem*

 

It would also be nice to create your own '10-Mario Challenge' worlds with 8 of your own uploaded levels for people to beat.. with no skipping stages!

 

5201.gif

Quickly, keep an eye out! See if they're there...

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Star coins would be fantastic ! Would make people think about level design and secrets. Even if 90% of the courses on there are rubbish.

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Star coins would be fantastic ! Would make people think about level design and secrets. Even if 90% of the courses on there are rubbish.

 

I already use the 1up mushrooms as Star Coins myself :p

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I actually think I'm going to start including 100 coins in my levels going forward as my incentive. It'll be easy to see who completes the task by the snapshot from the end of the level which accompanies a comment :smile:

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I actually think I'm going to start including 100 coins in my levels going forward as my incentive. It'll be easy to see who completes the task by the snapshot from the end of the level which accompanies a comment :smile:

 

or just avoid every single coin and finish with 00 coins ;) 99 coins is a better route surely?

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Coins are carried over from previous attempts/levels when someone is doing the 100-Mario Challenge, so that wouldn't work there.

 

Keep that in mind.

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