Hero-of-Time

Wii U General Discussion

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Josh64 said:

Gyro aiming is wonderful

It's funny. I always read about how people love gyro aiming, and I can appreciate its precision but I just can't get along with it. Hell, I can't even do mouse and keyboard gaming anymore...No idea why. :D I prefer aiming with the right analogue stick.

Edited by drahkon
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Dude milking cows has been a bawdy joke forever. Putting it on a computer game isn't some big wild swing you seem to think it is...

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, drahkon said:

It's funny. I always read about how people love gyro aiming, and I can appreciate its precision but I just can't get along with it. Hell, I can't even do mouse and keyboard gaming anymore...No idea why. :D I prefer aiming with the right analogue stick.

Im fine with keyboard and mouse aiming still but I've never liked gyro aiming.

The only time I like motion controls is with VR. If I see a regular game has motion controls then I'm actively put off from playing it.

Edited by Happenstance

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15 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Dude milking cows has been a bawdy joke forever. Putting it on a computer game isn't some big wild swing you seem to think it is...

Oh please. The topic is about Nintendo being "weird", 1-2 Switch is as weird as it gets.

Certainly more so than messing with some NES roms.

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16 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Oh please. The topic is about Nintendo being "weird", 1-2 Switch is as weird as it gets.

Certainly more so than messing with some NES roms.

Weirder than Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland? Weirder than Muscle March? Weirder than every other weird game I could list? Okay then, must be weirder than the trailers made it appear, then. :p 

1-2 Switch would be in my collection if it didn't look like an overpriced upgrade to Wii Play. The way I see it, Nintendo came out of the blocks with things like 1-2 Switch and Snipperclips and the attitude of "Wii U, what Wii U?! We're bringing the good times from the Wii back! Get your granny!" then, since the thing started selling like hotcakes they've promptly rested on their laurels. It's safe to say they've plenty of ideas and stuff in development that they probably just don't feel the need to put out since the Switch is thriving as is.

"The hardcore are restless? Right, check what's next on the Wii U list o' ports and throw together an indie round-up vid!"

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31 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Oh please. The topic is about Nintendo being "weird", 1-2 Switch is as weird as it gets.

Certainly more so than messing with some NES roms.

It's a different kind of humour for them sure, although there's some of it in the Mario & Luigi/Paper Mario series but obviously not as bawdy (and hell some of the DS advertising was as suggestive), but it's not weird. Rebecca Loos wanking off a pig on TV was weird, fake milking a cow is not. It was an easy joke to make, if anything its more pedestrian as its obvious. 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Ashley said:

It's a different kind of humour for them sure, although there's some of it in the Mario & Luigi/Paper Mario series but obviously not as bawdy (and hell some of the DS advertising was as suggestive), but it's not weird. Rebecca Loos wanking off a pig on TV was weird, fake milking a cow is not. It was an easy joke to make, if anything its more pedestrian as its obvious. 

Not sure why I'm trying to argue with someone who thinks Nintendo need to do the equivalent of wank off a pig in a game to finally achieve "weird", but...

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none of these qualify as weird to you? 

Like I said, I'm not trying to say that Nintendo are at peak quirkiness and originality with the Switch, but between the above, ARMS, Labo, Ring Fit, MK Home Circuit especially, it's obvious its still part of their dna.

Edited by Ronnie
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10 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Not sure why I'm trying to argue with someone who thinks Nintendo need to do the equivalent of wank off a pig in a game to finally achieve "weird", but...

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none of these qualify as weird to you? 

Like I said, I'm not trying to say that Nintendo are at peak quirkiness and originality with the Switch, but between the above, ARMS, Labo, Ring Fit, MK Home Circuit especially, it's obvious its still part of their dna.

No not really, particularly for a Japanese company (have you seen their gameshows?)

But not a hill I'm willing to die on by any means. Just not a game I would class as weird personally. 

And maybe just to make things clear; I am considering weird gameplay. 1-2 Switch was just waggling and we saw that 10 years ago. Yes with better tech, but it's a tech demo dressed up as a game really. It's not a weird product.

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1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

Oh please. The topic is about Nintendo being "weird", 1-2 Switch is as weird as it gets.

Certainly more so than messing with some NES roms.

Ever seen Sonic Team's Project Rub?

 

The advertising for 1-2 Switch is probably far stranger than the actual game is.

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I feel like 1-2 Switch doesn't qualify because it's got no meat to the bones, it's fine being weird but at least make it memorable and have a lifespan of more than an hour. There was a title on WiiU called Spin The Bottle/Bumpies Party which was much more impressive and unique, albeit with less impressive rumble.

Mario Kart and Labo are inventive but they're so far removed from actual games that I forget about them, they are literal toys, whereas NES Remix while not as unique in that sense was an actual game that had some hours of content to it so it felt more substantial. The reason I love 51 Worldwide Games is that it feels like one of the lower budget but more fun titles we would get in the Wii and WiiU era, hopefully with COVID slowly waning we might see more output from Nintendo this year. As much as a failure as the WiiU was, it has completely saved Nintendo's ass with ports just lately and made the Switch feel alive with first party content when we may have been going through somewhat of a dry spell. 

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4 hours ago, drahkon said:

It's funny. I always read about how people love gyro aiming, and I can appreciate its precision but I just can't get along with it. Hell, I can't even do mouse and keyboard gaming anymore...No idea why. :D I prefer aiming with the right analogue stick.

 

You are blessed! I tried as much as I could to get used to the right analogue stick but I'm just so bad at using it, which is sad as it ruled out so many games for me when I was regularly on my Xbox One, maybe I have my formative N64 years to blame with its one analogue stick for not blessing me with dual analogue precision!! 

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On 17/03/2021 at 4:30 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

I can see why developers and publishers are wanting to play it safe. The cost of games development just keeps going up and up and so developing games that are tried and tested formulas is the safest way to bring in the money. It’s why we see so many remasters because it’s a quicker and easier process that should bring in a decent return.

I will say though that developers do try different things in their games, it’s just a lot of the time it’s for their own benefit rather than gamers. Season passes, microtransactions, DLC, loot boxes and pay to win mechanics are all evolutions in gaming and do in some ways push gameplay boundaries, it’s just that it does it in a negative way.

You mention Nintendo being creative and yet I think the Switch generation of Nintendo has been their lowest point in terms of software creativity. Ring Fit Adventure is probably the last time they really mixed things up and done something unique. Who would have thought a fitness JRPG would turn out so good? Labo was a fun distraction but it needed fleshing out some more. Paying all that money and having the game only last 4-5 hours was a bit rough.

I think it comes back to what I said at the start in that they are also playing it safe. Following gaming trends, remastered games and using tried and tested IPs seem to be the driving force of the Switch and it has worked wonders for them. The console has been an amazing success and the amount of software being sold is just insane. Depending on how they position/name the Pro, I wouldn’t be surprised if it went on to beat the PS2 as the best selling console of all time. Playing it safe has completely turned the company around.

Oh I totally agree with all of this, particularly the bolded bit.  Nintendo’s output has changed drastically since Iwata’s passing.  It’s much more conservative and much more in-line with wider industry trends (and the same is true with their mobile titles, which are now basically indistinguishable from the rest of the tripe you see on mobile; flying completely in the face of what Iwata wanted with Nintendo’s mobile strategy).

 

BOTW is as contemporary as it can get really; it’s basically an Ubisoft open world game.  Animal Crossing NH riffs heavily on Minecraft now (item crafting, terraforming), Mario Odyssey is a poor man’s Banjo Kazooie/open world wannabe, Fire Emblem Three Houses is more of a Persona knockoff than a FE game etc.  And then there’s Pokemon Legends Arceus, the most pandery pandering game that ever pandered.

You also have games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3; which Iwata’s Nintendo would NEVER have commissioned & published before.

Nintendo is now starting to chase & follow standard industry trends and that’s a real shame to see as their uniqueness gets continuously chipped away... but that doesn’t mean that all is lost.  We ARE still getting glimpses of the Crazy Nintendo we used to know and love.  Things like Nintendo Labo, Ring Fit Adventure, ARMS, Mario Kart Live, 123 Switch are emblematic of the wild & experimental Nintendo of yore.  While sequels like Mario Tennis Aces, Paper Mario TOK, Mario Golf Speed Rush and Luigi’s Mansion 3 aren’t afraid to push boundaries & conventions; they are certainly NOT conservative in nature! Even re-releases like Famicom Detective Club and Miitopia are big ball risks that are anything but safe!

So while Nintendo has certainly been playing it much safer this generation than in those prior (particularly with their biggest titles like Mario & Zelda), there is still evidence that the old guard at Nintendo and the beating heart of their crazy, inventive & wild side is indeed still alive.

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Posted (edited)

@Ronnie first of all. Sushi Strikers is a 3DS game. And even so, I wouldn't count it. You're starting to lose track of what I mean by "Weird Nintendo"

It's not just "Nintendo game that is weird", because that's most Nintendo games. I'm thinking of the kind of game that has some kind of input method or accessory that make you think. "Wait, really? But why?" Or even some concept that doesn't really fit into a typical genre.

So ARMS is weird, but it's not "Weird Nintendo" as it's a (interesting) fighting game that's an evolution of Wii Sports Resort's Swordfighting.

On the other hand, Lylat Wars with it's big vibrating block connected to your controller? That's "Weird Nintendo". Wii Sports, Wii Fit. R.O.B, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Mario Paint, Photo Dojo, WiiU's Gamepad, NES Remix, WarioWare (original, Twisted and Snapped), I could go on.

So far, Switch has Ring Fit Adventure, Labo, and some of the games in 1-2 Switch (Real talk, it's just the HD Rumble stuff that fits) and that's about it.

So to clarify, Snipperclips is another kind of puzzle game that focuses on co-op. Tetris 99 is online Tetris, which has been around for yonks, but with 99 people, and I'm pretty sure Atari developed it?

Mario Kart Live is nowhere near the first time a real life toy has been used to influence a video game. AR has been around for years (I mean, it was a 3DS feature, for starters) and it's not even new ground for Nintendo, thanks to R.O.B.

7 hours ago, Dcubed said:

You also have games like Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3; which Iwata’s Nintendo would NEVER have commissioned & published before.

I actually thought that game was quite good.

But I'd be amazed if any Marvel fan would believe me if I told them that Nintendo published it. It feels so not Nintendo!

Edited by Glen-i
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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

@Ronnie first of all. Sushi Strikers is a 3DS game. And even so, I wouldn't count it. You're starting to lose track of what I mean by "Weird Nintendo"

It's not just "Nintendo game that is weird", because that's most Nintendo games. I'm thinking of the kind of game that has some kind of input method or accessory that make you think. "Wait, really? But why?" Or even some concept that doesn't really fit into a typical genre.

So ARMS is weird, but it's not "Weird Nintendo" as it's a (interesting) fighting game that's an evolution of Wii Sports Resort's Swordfighting.

On the other hand, Lylat Wars with it's big vibrating block connected to your controller? That's "Weird Nintendo". Wii Sports, Wii Fit. R.O.B, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Mario Paint, Photo Dojo, WiiU's Gamepad, NES Remix, WarioWare (original, Twisted and Snapped), I could go on.

So far, Switch has Ring Fit Adventure, Labo, and some of the games in 1-2 Switch (Real talk, it's just the HD Rumble stuff that fits) and that's about it.

So to clarify, Snipperclips is another kind of puzzle game that focuses on co-op. Tetris 99 is online Tetris, which has been around for yonks, but with 99 people, and I'm pretty sure Atari developed it?

It’s Arika, not Atari (close guess mind you!).  Same people who made the modern Dr Mario games and the Tetris: The Grandmaster series (AKA Hardcore Invisible God Mode Tetris).

Quote

Mario Kart Live is nowhere near the first time a real life toy has been used to influence a video game. AR has been around for years (I mean, it was a 3DS feature, for starters) and it's not even new ground for Nintendo, thanks to R.O.B.

True, AR isn’t new, and this could well have been a standalone toy that uses a mobile phone instead of a Switch to control the RC Kart.  But hey! I’d say it’s weird enough to count as Weird Nintendo; who else would put that out as their big headlining Xmas game for their flagship console other than Weird Nintendo?

Quote

I actually thought that game was quite good.

But I'd be amazed if any Marvel fan would believe me if I told them that Nintendo published it. It feels so not Nintendo!

Oh no, I don’t think MUA3 is a bad game or anything, but it’s a shockingly contemporary game for Nintendo to commission & publish (though that being said, the fact that they got Team Ninja/Koei-Tecmo to make a Marvel game of all things IS a very weird thing to do!  Very strange choice of developer!).  As you say, it’s very non-Nintendo.

Edited by Dcubed
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1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

On the other hand, Lylat Wars with it's big vibrating block connected to your controller? That's "Weird Nintendo". Wii Sports, Wii Fit. R.O.B, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Mario Paint, Photo Dojo, WiiU's Gamepad, NES Remix, WarioWare (original, Twisted and Snapped), I could go on.

How many of those "weird Nintendo" do you get per console generation? Because so far the Switch has 3 major ones, and we're only halfway through the lifecycle. 

Wii Sports > 1-2 Switch (you can't belittle the latter, when the former is a pretty standard sports game, with motion controls)
Wii Fit > Ring Fit Adventure

Not sure NES Remix really qualifies under your own rules. 

Again, I'm not saying we have a ton of "weird Nintendo" to date, but there's enough that makes me question people saying we don't get any.

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23 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

How many of those "weird Nintendo" do you get per console generation? Because so far the Switch has 3 major ones, and we're only halfway through the lifecycle. 

Wii Sports > 1-2 Switch (you can't belittle the latter, when the former is a pretty standard sports game, with motion controls)
Wii Fit > Ring Fit Adventure

Not sure NES Remix really qualifies under your own rules. 

Again, I'm not saying we have a ton of "weird Nintendo" to date, but there's enough that makes me question people saying we don't get any.

Wii Sports was weird because it used motion controls in 2006.

These days, motion controls aren't as unexpected, so that's the difference between it and 1-2 Switch.

NES Remix is weird because, well, what kind of genre does it fit? It doesn't neatly fit in anywhere really.

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NES Remix was such a special game. I'm not sure I would class it as weird. I think imaginative and creative would be a better description. 

Like Ike, I'm still waiting for the SNES sequel. :( 

I was also a big fan of that Mario & Donkey Kong amiibo game that was on the Wii U. Such a good use of everyone's amiibo collection.

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3 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Mario Kart Live is nowhere near the first time a real life toy has been used to influence a video game. AR has been around for years (I mean, it was a 3DS feature, for starters) and it's not even new ground for Nintendo, thanks to R.O.B.

Read this as "thanks to @bob" and wandered what he'd gotten up to.

2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Wii Sports > 1-2 Switch (you can't belittle the latter, when the former is a pretty standard sports game, with motion controls)

Wii Sports was "weird" (in the semi-agreed sense we're using here) because of the motion controls and the ease of those. Similarish things had existed (Eye Toy being the nearest console "weird input" kind of thing I can think of) but Nintendo made it easy to grasp and playable. It also had a much longer lifespan because you could play an actual game on it. One of 1-2 Switch's biggest mistakes was making each of the games so short. It makes the whole package disposable. I took it to a friend's a few months back and it lasted about an hour.

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Posted (edited)

I'm just finishing up my second playthrough (New Game Plus) of Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE Encore on my Switch in hard mode, having nearly got all the play records and trophies. I have finally got to a secret boss which is not only hard as hell to unlock but also hard as nails to kill. ANYWAY, including my Wii U playthrough this will be my third jaunt through the wonderful cities and terrifying idolaspheres of Tokyo.  

Back in 2016 when it launched over here I was not really into JRPG's so got the normal edition of the game, little did I know it would wind up being one of my favourite games ever. The Switch version only ever released as a normal cart, the mega awesome special Fortissimo Edition that launched alongside the normal Wii U release was a one time thing. 

I keep seeing art from the artbook posted on Twitter every now and then and it all looks so cool, and the book STILL hasn't been scanned online, so with the general obscurity of the game and the further obscurity of the Fortissimo Edition I knew it was unlikely I'd see all of the art book unless...

I had to finally do it - I ordered it on eBay!! I'm so pumped man, finally doing what I should have done 5 years ago. 

original.jpg

It should be with me in a few days! 

 

Edited by Josh64
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Posted (edited)
On 28/04/2021 at 12:33 PM, Josh64 said:

I'm just finishing up my second playthrough (New Game Plus) of Tokyo Mirage Sessions FE Encore on my Switch in hard mode, having nearly got all the play records and trophies. I have finally got to a secret boss which is not only hard as hell to unlock but also hard as nails to kill. ANYWAY, including my Wii U playthrough this will be my third jaunt through the wonderful cities and terrifying idolaspheres of Tokyo.  

Back in 2016 when it launched over here I was not really into JRPG's so got the normal edition of the game, little did I know it would wind up being one of my favourite games ever. The Switch version only ever released as a normal cart, the mega awesome special Fortissimo Edition that launched alongside the normal Wii U release was a one time thing. 

I keep seeing art from the artbook posted on Twitter every now and then and it all looks so cool, and the book STILL hasn't been scanned online, so with the general obscurity of the game and the further obscurity of the Fortissimo Edition I knew it was unlikely I'd see all of the art book unless...

I had to finally do it - I ordered it on eBay!! I'm so pumped man, finally doing what I should have done 5 years ago. 

 

It should be with me in a few days! 

 

 

Ok so that secret boss is still kicking my ass so I spent the week hardcore grinding and got all my party members up to level 99 (max). I go in for another shot and still get annihilated! But, and here's the big butt, I have a game plan. While I am at level 99 with all characters, some of their stats aren't max and you can get single stat boosts of each type (mag, str, def etc) by trading 9 detritus with a guy in the arena. You get detritus from killing Savage Enemies and so more grinding awaits for that detritus to hopefully fully max out my heroes - and thanks to my previous grinding, these so called Savage Enemies aren't too savage for me now anyway.

Finally, I need the final weapons for each character, I only have Itsuki's final weapon so far. To get them I need a War Testament, which I get by completing the hard as nails (but again slightly easier now I'm buff af) Legendary arena which awards me with 9 arena coins which I can then trade for a war testament when I get up to 40 coins. 

So I'm hoping that when I have finally got all the final weapons and boosted my stats to the high heavens I can beat this dickhead of a secret boss. After all this, the actual final boss which I've been putting off until now will be as easy as eating chips (a great phrase one of my teachers used to say)

Anyway, onto getting the actual special edition and...

I paid immediately upon selecting 'buy it now' and so was pumped every morning getting to my front door with the hope that it would be here. Fast forward to FRIDAY and the seller is like "here's some final pics, just making sure you are happy with it before I post". 5 days after and they're saying things like before I post!??! Alas I replied with "yes that's great" and let the anger sink down into my soul as I know how much of a steal I'm getting this for - and with their slow hesitant response rate makes me think they've realised they perhaps listed it a bit low lol.

Anyway, here's hoping I get it sometime this week instead :laughing:

Edited by Josh64

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Yeah, that boss is something else. Obviously designed to be fought at Level 99.

I never actually beat it on the WiiU version, I should give it a crack on the Switch version. The extra sessions with Tiki, Barry and Maiko as well as the few other extra tweaks that make the characters stronger in that version should help in beating it.

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3 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Yeah, that boss is something else. Obviously designed to be fought at Level 99.

I never actually beat it on the WiiU version, I should give it a crack on the Switch version. The extra sessions with Tiki, Barry and Maiko as well as the few other extra tweaks that make the characters stronger in that version should help in beating it.

Lol yeah, looking back now I can't believe I even attempted it when I was in my late 70's :laughing: The random duo songs also seem a lot less common in this boss fight than any other fights :cry: But it might just feel that way as I'm always gasping for air

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Josh64 said:

Lol yeah, looking back now I can't believe I even attempted it when I was in my late 70's :laughing: The random duo songs also seem a lot less common in this boss fight than any other fights :cry: But it might just feel that way as I'm always gasping for air

I assume you do, but you have Falling Star (Itsuki +Tsubasa), right?

That's the only one you can actually miss.

But yeah, get those ultimate weapons, get skills that let you bypass it's Repel capabilities and make sure Touma has Debilitate. Real useful debuff!

EDIT: Oh, and if it summons Bishop Mirages, kill them immediately!

Edited by Glen-i
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1 minute ago, Glen-i said:

I assume you do, but you have Falling Star (Itsuki +Tsubasa), right?

That's the only one you can actually miss.

But yeah, get those ultimate weapons, get skills that let you bypass it's Repel capabilities and make sure Touma has Debilitate. Real useful debuff!

EDIT: Oh, and if it summons Bishop Mirages, kill them immediately!

I do, though I barely ever see it! Saying that I do believe I didn't have it on Wii U as I remember thinking it was perhaps new to Switch or something as it's the only duo art I couldn't remember! And god yeah they are nightmares, I just hope for the best I can do a near 1 shot kill with Ellie's Final Hour :laughing: Though I try not to use it as I mostly like to keep my SP for Mamori's microwavin' as it gives her another go after using it, when I do normal heals I nearly always just end up in a healing loop until I die!

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1 minute ago, Josh64 said:

I do, though I barely ever see it! Saying that I do believe I didn't have it on Wii U as I remember thinking it was perhaps new to Switch or something as it's the only duo art I couldn't remember! And god yeah they are nightmares, I just hope for the best I can do a near 1 shot kill with Ellie's Final Hour :laughing: Though I try not to use it as I mostly like to keep my SP for Mamori's microwavin' as it gives her another go after using it, when I do normal heals I nearly always just end up in a healing loop until I die!

If I'm remembering right, duo arts are more likely to happen;

- The longer a session is

- The more Duo arts you have unlocked

- The higher the two characters Skill stat is

As you probably realised, that last one is important. It's not a massive boost. But it is one you can directly influence.

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