Wii U General Discussion

[Serebii]

People were happy with the Gamecube attachment for the Wii U for a number of reasons

 

Reason the first: wired controller for Smash Bros. Even though Wireless is arguably better, it adds some very slight latency. As such, having it wired is very beneficial for the competitive players

Reason the second: Nostalgia & instinct. People played Melee with the GCN controller and became accustomed to it. They then played Brawl with it, because they could. Now, they're able to continue with it.

 

It has nothing to do with the Pro Controller being bad, but them being used to it. That's why the Playstation controller has barely changed (until the PS4, even then it's largely the same), because people are used to it and thus they know it's good.

 

Also, I have spent plenty of time with the Playstation 4 controller. It is the one with the weirdly positioned sticks. They are so uncomfortable and in the wrong place. Seriously, why the hell is the left analogue stick down there and that far away from the side? I have to stretch my thumb to reach it and it gives me cramp. It also feels like a flimsy controller to me. Plus the whole issue of the rubber coating coming off of the sticks, that's hardly indicative of build quality. I don't like it at all.

[Sheikah]

People were happy with the Gamecube attachment for the Wii U for a number of reasons

 

Reason the first: wired controller for Smash Bros. Even though Wireless is arguably better, it adds some very slight latency. As such, having it wired is very beneficial for the competitive players

Reason the second: Nostalgia & instinct. People played Melee with the GCN controller and became accustomed to it. They then played Brawl with it, because they could. Now, they're able to continue with it.

 

It has nothing to do with the Pro Controller being bad, but them being used to it. That's why the Playstation controller has barely changed (until the PS4, even then it's largely the same), because people are used to it and thus they know it's good.

 

Also, I have spent plenty of time with the Playstation 4 controller. It is the one with the weirdly positioned sticks. They are so uncomfortable and in the wrong place. Seriously, why the hell is the left analogue stick down there and that far away from the side? I have to stretch my thumb to reach it and it gives me cramp. It also feels like a flimsy controller to me. Plus the whole issue of the rubber coating coming off of the sticks, that's hardly indicative of build quality. I don't like it at all.

I'm calling bullshit. You don't have a PS4 and I'm guessing you don't leisurely meet up with friends often, purely from the "What else am I going to do besides waste countless hours trawling through Neogfaf" [close approximation] comment yesterday. So, how is it you came to spend a lot of time with the PS4 controller?

 

Also bear in mind that the PS4 is storming it right now, despite currently being sustained mostly by multiformats which people could buy on other platforms to play using a different controller. We can reasonably deduce that most people don't find the control setup so weird they'd go elsewhere, given the controller has been pretty consistent since the 90s.

 

As for 'people are used to it' comment regarding the GC controller. I'm used to the N64 controller and PS3 controllers. Heck, I'm even used the mega drive controller. Doesn't mean I'd want to see them back, because I consider the current controllers better. I consider the gamecube controller better than the Pro, however. I'm glad to see the gamecube controller being reused as I simply find it a lot more comfortable.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Sheikah

[Clownferret]

Is there any news on release dates for Watchdogs and 90's Arcade Racer?

[liger05]

All controllers are overpriced in relation to how much they cost to produce. Accessories are where these companies can really make a killing on the margins.

[Daft]

Dualshock 4s have got the control stick coating ripping off etc. There are no reports of things like that with the Pro Controller. So, do tell, how is the build quality better?

 

I'm pretty sure there is a problem with certain production runs of the DS4 during launch. From what I can tell it's been fixed. If you have that problem with your DS4 you should give Sony a call, they'll replace it for free.

 

It's a manufacturing issue, not a build quality one.

 

I remember when the PS3 had a couple bad batches of BluRay diodes go out. They replaced those for free. In fact, they delivered mine to my door the day after I called them.

[Sheikah]

I'm pretty sure there is a problem with certain production runs of the DS4 during launch. From what I can tell it's been fixed. If you have that problem with your DS4 you should give Sony a call, they'll replace it for free.

 

It's a manufacturing issue, not a build quality one.

 

I remember when the PS3 had a couple bad batches of BluRay diodes go out. They replaced those for free. In fact, they delivered mine to my door the day after I called them.

 

I had also heard similar, that this was an issue on some launch controllers and Sony replaced them. It certainly never happened to me, and I got the inFAMOUS bundle a while later.

[Kav]

...The Pro controller's shiny plastic feels cheap, the buttons are hard and uncomfortable to press, the sticks are laid out oddly and the surface of the controller is almost flat with very little ergonomic design. Don't get me started on the triggers...

 

The fact fans were very happy with the Gamecube controller attachment basically sums up how much people thought of that controller relative to this one. If Sony released an update to use your PS3 controller on the PS4, precisely zero fucks would be given. The PS4 controller is almost universally seen as an improvement, whereas I think you'd find a lot of people who preferred the Gamecube controller to the Wii U pro.

 

I get what you mean in some respects. It's not as comfortable in the hand as the GC controller, but then again I'd say no other controller is either. Yet to say there's very little ergonomic design I'd say isn't quite right, it's a comfy controller still.

I don't get the "the plastic feels cheap", it doesn't feel like it'll break or that it's flimsy or anything. It feels normal I'd say.

I don't have any issues personally with the buttons but I've not played MK8 with the pad yet so I've not had to hold a button down for extended periods so I'll not judge this one.

The triggers should be analogue but they're not. But as far as buttons go they feel very good to press, nothing wrong in that respect.

The analogue stick position however, for me, is perfect. The natural pale for them to be for the hand... the reason I say for me is because I generally play games where I'm using the analogue stick much more heavily than the buttons so this is why.

 

To me it's as good as the GC pad, if not as comfy. The buttons are ok for me, it's unfortunate that the triggers aren't analogue triggers but they're not as bad as the awful Z button on the GC pad. The analogue sticks on the Pro Controller are better and in a better position. Also, the D-Pad on the Pro Controller is infinitely better than the GC's. Both have pros and cons so I'd say they're as good, not one better than the other.

[Daft]

I think if it were a continuing issue we'd be hearing more about it. All the articles about it are relatively old. Worse comes to worse, it isn't hard to replace the sticks, or buy covers for them. But i don't think it's an issue anymore.

[Sheikah]

I don't get the "the plastic feels cheap", it doesn't feel like it'll break or that it's flimsy or anything. It feels normal I'd say.

 

It's hard to describe this feeling, but I get it very strongly when I pick it up. It feels cheap to me, in a similar way to the original Sixaxis controllers back on the PS3. Part of that might be to do with the weight (that certainly was the case with the Sixaxis) but it's also the smooth, fingerprint drawing material that they've used. That just doesn't feel like the sort of thing a controller should be made from, and you pretty much never see that from the Sony/MS consoles, nor the gamecube controller. The buttons as well, they just kill the experience for me. When I was using the buttons for an extended period of time they really started to hurt - they're really hard and pretty small, which makes the pressure build up over time.

[Kav]

It is a fingerprint magnet that's for sure! From what I hear the general complaint about the buttons is for extended use where you're holding the buttons down, like on MK8, so I'm glad I've not used it for that. For just pressing them I've found it fine, I'm just no keen on the spacing between them, I'd like them more like the Gamepad's, a little closer together and closer to the analogue stick ever so slightly.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Dualshock 4s have got the control stick coating ripping off etc. There are no reports of things like that with the Pro Controller. So, do tell, how is the build quality better?

 

The Pro Controller feels great, I don't get the whole "low build quality" statement.

 

I used to think that the Pro Controller was a nice bit of kit. However, since getting a DualShock4 and going back to using a Pro Controller, they are absolutely worlds apart. The Pro Controller feels very flimsy and tacky in comparison. The DS4 is nice and sturdy, feels sensual as fuck in your hands and the buttons are just...so, so nice to press and use for long periods of time.

 

I was never a fan of the analogue placement of the DualShock controllers before. But, after using them on the DS4, it is something that you do get used to and it doesn't feel like a hindrance. At least, nowhere near as big a hindrance as I expected it to be.

 

Also, those shoulder buttons...Pro Controller doesn't come close. Nowhere near as a controller. Had that been the main controller for the system, there would have been tons of complaints due to the quality of it. It gets away with the criticism because...well...the GamePad takes a lot of the flack. :p

[Kav]

I think it's the weight more than anything. It doesn't actually feel flimsy. It's buttons and lack of analogue triggers aren't as good as the DS4's but I find the analogue placement far better on the Pro Controller, because of this I find it more comfortable than the DS4 although with the weight of the DS4 it feels more like a controller... if that makes sense?

[Fierce_LiNk]

I think it's the weight more than anything. It doesn't actually feel flimsy. It's buttons and lack of analogue triggers aren't as good as the DS4's but I find the analogue placement far better on the Pro Controller, because of this I find it more comfortable than the DS4 although with the weight of the DS4 it feels more like a controller... if that makes sense?

 

In theory, the analogue placement on the Pro Controller should work. However, for some reason, it doesn't. At least, not for me anyway. It's strange, like you have to fully adjust your right hand to use the face buttons, it's not natural.

 

There's too many factors with the Pro Controller that stop it from being a great controller. The stick placement doesn't do it for me, but I can deal with it. The plastic is...yuck. It doesn't feel nice to hold for too long. There's no grip to it, I'm surprised that my hands don't just slide off. The buttons are harsh and the shoulder buttons are disappointing compared to other controllers out there. Gutted Nintendo didn't implement analogue triggers, they felt so beautiful on the Cube controller.

 

Having no weight to it is...odd. It almost feels like a third party controller to me. Luckily I got mine for around 20-25 quid or something like that, but I'd feel gutted if I slapped down 40 quid for that.

[Josh64]

I think the problem with Nintendo and controllers is that, instead of improving upon something that is received positively, they have to completely re-write everything each time. Sony have continued to improve the same basic template of the original PS1 controller over time, as have MS with the Xbox Controller (more so 360, that huge original xbox one was crazy :P)

 

Ever since the GameCube, they should have used that as their template and just improved upon it. Instead, they created the Classic Controller, Classic Controller Pro, Wii U Pro Controller.

 

The fact that people keep going back to the GameCube controller, on Wii through the ports on top of the system and on Wii U, having to create an actual GC adapter, should be a big enough sign that they should go the MS and Sony route, hear what fans like about their controllers and stick to it.

 

Just give us a god damn wireless GC controller with clickable analogue sticks. And those L and R buttons... that click... hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.

[Rummy]

Is there any news on release dates for Watchdogs and 90's Arcade Racer?

 

I'm guessing that the short answer is sadly no

[Fierce_LiNk]

I think the problem with Nintendo and controllers is that, instead of improving upon something that is received positively, they have to completely re-write everything each time. Sony have continued to improve the same basic template of the original PS1 controller over time, as have MS with the Xbox Controller (more so 360, that huge original xbox one was crazy :P)

 

Ever since the GameCube, they should have used that as their template and just improved upon it. Instead, they created the Classic Controller, Classic Controller Pro, Wii U Pro Controller.

 

The fact that people keep going back to the GameCube controller, on Wii through the ports on top of the system and on Wii U, having to create an actual GC adapter, should be a big enough sign that they should go the MS and Sony route, hear what fans like about their controllers and stick to it.

 

Just give us a god damn wireless GC controller with clickable analogue sticks. And those L and R buttons... that click... hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.

 

Pretty much this, especially the bold part. There seems to be a million different controllers, which is itself both a good and a bad thing. You could argue that there is some sort of evolution with the Pro Controller since it's all derived from the Classic Controller for Wii, then the Classic Controller Pro and then the Pro Controller. There's definitely some sort of progression there, I'd argue.

 

What annoys me about Nintendo is that they occasionally have great ideas and then don't incorporate them properly for long periods of time. The analogue shoulder buttons and digital click being great examples, but now I also feel that they've moved away slightly from using motion controls in their games. The Wiimote was a great piece of kit, especially with MotionPlus, but how many games actually make great use of it for the WiiU? Even MotionPlus games for Wii were at a minimum...the same sorta thing is happening with the GamePad.

 

I'm curious to see what route Nintendo take after the Wii U, especially with the controllers. Do they restart from scratch or do they try to incorporate the previous controllers? If it's the latter, then we're looking at another mess, tbh.

[Josh64]

Yeah, that's really annoying, ESPECIALLY the Motion Plus aspect. My god, the amount they were pushing that for Wii, and for what? Wii Sports Resort and a god-damn sequel to Wii Play? I love Motion Plus, but I'm livid they haven't used it more. I'm a really big fan of motion controls, but they seem to have given up past 2010. I'm happy that the Wii U at least had a few great uses, such as Metroid Blast and Spin The Bottle!

 

What annoys me more is the potential that's there. The Wii Balance Board for example. Nintendo literally just used it for Wii Fit. When SEGA used it on Monkey Ball I was impressed, it was really fun to use, a good work-out and a great example of how certain franchises can be really improved with new technology. Did Nintendo take note? Nah, just another Wii Fit and that's it. Don't even get me started on Wii Speak.

 

Nintendo is like a spoilt kid. They hype something up and say how amazing it will be but when it finally comes to fruition they seem interested for about 2 weeks and never touch it again.

[Goron_3]

The best N64 controller was the GC one. Man it's so perfect Nintendo just need ONE controller for their next console.

[Kav]

In theory, the analogue placement on the Pro Controller should work. However, for some reason, it doesn't. At least, not for me anyway. It's strange, like you have to fully adjust your right hand to use the face buttons, it's not natural...

 

Given that you never need precise movements for pressing buttons but you do for control over the analogue stick, then the most natural position is how it's set up on the Pro Controller. It's so much better playing FPS and 3rdPS with a WiiU controller because of this... really any game where you've extensive use of the analogue sticks. This is my biggest gripe with the Dual Shock controllers, their god awful analogue placement! Although the DS4's is better than previous iterations now they're spaced further apart and it's finally a comfortable controller to in your hand... they're still in a tripe position which then lessens that comfort.

[Sheikah]

It's totally the other way around - buttons require more precision to press naturally whereas analogue sticks are very easy to manipulate wherever they are. With an analogue stick, you need only rest your thumb on a part of it and you can easily move it in any direction. With buttons, particularly the ones furthest away, it's hard to press them without doing the 'unnatural' thing Flink mentioned.

 

You've also got to think of it this way - if what you said was true regarding FPSs, Microsoft would almost certainly have done it. It's not a stroke of genius what Nintendo have done - the reason nobody else does it is because it's not the best setup, not because they are the first to simply think of putting a stick there. MS are bound to have tried putting one there on a prototype, since they already went against Sony's setup and were carving out their own, but obviously saw the flaws with it.

 

I think as well, even if it was a better layout for FPS games, which I don't agree with, the Wii U hardly has any, so it's practically bizarre that Nintendo went with such a design.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Sheikah

[Kav]

It's totally the other way around - buttons require more precision to press naturally whereas analogue sticks are very easy to manipulate wherever they are. With an analogue stick, you need only rest your thumb on a part of it and you can easily move it in any direction. With buttons, particularly the ones furthest away, it's hard to press them without doing the 'unnatural' thing Flink mentioned...

 

This is wrong, just completely wrong. Buttons do not require precision. You just press them. No intricate movements or anything required.

The analogue stick requires intricate movements, quick changes in directions... especially for twitch gameplay. It's absolutely much more comfortable doing this from the natural position your thumb sits at... mirroring the left analogue.

 

If this wasn't the case then all controllers would mirror the Dual Shock setup. It's only because there are a lot of games too that don't overly rely on the right analogue that it sits where it does on other controllers. Buttons are an age old mainstay on controllers, they're there as they've always been there.

 

But for ease and comfort of control, the raised position of analogues is absolutely best, it's where your thumb naturally rests.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Kav

[Sheikah]

I'm sorry, but the might and experience of the other console designers prove it's anything but wrong. As Microsoft's console is FPS and shooter dominated don't think for a second that they wouldn't have done this if it was better. It's just a lot worse... like Flink said, it requires you to do a rather unnatural movement with your right hand to access the buttons. Yet accessing the right stick, and making fine precision movements, is not difficult at all on the other controllers. What you're describing simply does not match up to the experience - certainly not the countless hours of experience I have with both 360/PS3 pads anyway.

 

We can much more easily put this down to Nintendo not really thinking things through when they made this when you consider that you're arguing this is great for FPS - on a console with next to no first party/3rd party FPS.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Sheikah

[Serebii]

It only feels unnatural because you are unaccustomed to it. It took me one day to get used to it, that's all. It's not "unnatural", it's just foreign to you.

[Sheikah]

It only feels unnatural because you are unaccustomed to it. It took me one day to get used to it, that's all. It's not "unnatural", it's just foreign to you.

 

Nope, it's definitely unnatural. I have a lot to compare it to, and it's certainly not a case of unfamiliarity. For example, the 360 pad switched the left analogue and D-pad but using the stick still feels natural, as either position works (although one renders the D-pad a bit useless).

 

Here, though...the way you must position your hand to reach the lower buttons is like how you might position your hand on the 360 pad to reach the D-pad. It has never and will never feel good.

[Kav]

I'm sorry, but the might and experience of the other console designers prove it's anything but wrong. As Microsoft's console is FPS and shooter dominated don't think for a second that they wouldn't have done this if it was better. It's just a lot worse... like Flink said, it requires you to do a rather unnatural movement with your right hand to access the buttons. Yet accessing the right stick, and making fine precision movements, is not difficult at all on the other controllers. What you're describing simply does not match up to the experience - certainly not the countless hours of experience I have with both 360/PS3 pads anyway.

 

We can much more easily put this down to Nintendo not really thinking things through when they made this when you consider that you're arguing this is great for FPS - on a console with next to no first party/3rd party FPS.

 

I've countless hours myself on a 360 pad and the WiiU. I disagree with you completely. I'm not saying it's difficult, it's not difficult at all, it's just that it's more natural and therefore you've a better degree of fidelity with the analogue positioned in the natural position.

The Wiimote is by far the best controller when it comes to FPS but Microsoft haven't adopted a pointer based controller.

 

When it comes to designing a controller I've more belief Nintendo studied where was the most natural position for things over the others.

 

It's certainly not at all difficult pressing buttons, no matter where they are on the pad.

 

It only feels unnatural because you are unaccustomed to it. It took me one day to get used to it, that's all. It's not "unnatural", it's just foreign to you.

 

Ever since CoD: MW on onwards, after playing heavily on them I have wanted both analogues in the raised position. It's the best position or them.