Wii U VC

[Fierce_LiNk]

Because when we've lost you, we've lost one of pieces of the heart and soul

 

It is pretty sad, but I feel exactly the same as @Hero\-of\-Time, so I can only agree with him really.

 

I don't think WiiU's online is phenomenal. But, that's my opinion and you have yours. I do think there is definite room for improvement in nearly all aspects for Nintendo. I only recently found out the price for the N64 games on the VC and...it's just plain extortion. I'd rather buy a newer indie title for usually a fraction of that price (and in turn, support another developer).

 

I know it's been mentioned before but...subscription model for VC? I'd go for that.

[Serebii]

It is pretty sad, but I feel exactly the same as @Hero\-of\-Time, so I can only agree with him really.

 

I don't think WiiU's online is phenomenal. But, that's my opinion and you have yours. I do think there is definite room for improvement in nearly all aspects for Nintendo. I only recently found out the price for the N64 games on the VC and...it's just plain extortion. I'd rather buy a newer indie title for usually a fraction of that price (and in turn, support another developer).

 

I know it's been mentioned before but...subscription model for VC? I'd go for that.

I too would go subscription model (if you could also pay to download). I do agree that each of the console's prices for VC should be reduced by £1 or £2 as well, but I wouldn't say it's extortion

 

I just don't agree with the problems with online. Voice chat being missing sucks, sure, but the actual online system works well and they don't charge you for it. The games function beautifully online. While Mario Kart had some teething problems, I very rarely have any errors, yet on other devices I keep getting kicked out of matches.

 

The games Nintendo put out are still among the best in the industry, so I will never fall out of "love" with them, and it really baffles me when people say they have. Have they made questionable choices on hardware? Sure, but hardware isn't everything and the software is still fantastic.

[Goron_3]

Funny you talk about software because the dumbing down of gameplay since the Gamecube era is the single biggest reason why I've lost faith in Nintendo. The downgrades in the physics engines of Smash, Mario and Mario Kart have left me disallusioned with them. I get it's because they want to simplify the gameplay for newcomers but gameplay should be pushed to the limit with a low skill floor AND a high skill ceiling; a low skill ceiling is not rewarding. Splatoon is the first time in over a decade they've gone against this philosophy but it's not enough.

 

Alas, that's for another thread.

 

Has anyone listened to this week's RFN? Jonny sums it up best:

 

'The emulation on XBO N64 games is better than the Wii U VC emulation. They have fewer issues, look incredible on HD screens and are significantly cheaper'.

 

And that's from a hardcore Nintendo fan

[Serebii]

Funny you talk about software because the dumbing down of gameplay since the Gamecube era is the single biggest reason why I've lost faith in Nintendo. The downgrades in the physics engines of Smash, Mario and Mario Kart have left me disallusioned with them. I get it's because they want to simplify the gameplay for newcomers but gameplay should be pushed to the limit with a low skill floor AND a high skill ceiling; a low skill ceiling is not rewarding. Splatoon is the first time in over a decade they've gone against this philosophy but it's not enough.

 

Alas, that's for another thread.

 

Has anyone listened to this week's RFN? Jonny sums it up best:

 

'The emulation on XBO N64 games is better than the Wii U VC emulation. They have fewer issues, look incredible on HD screens and are significantly cheaper'.

 

And that's from a hardcore Nintendo fan

I think the issue with people about the N64 emulation is that they're looking at Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie for it. Those aren't emulated N64 titles, you're getting the remasters that came on the 360. The other titles, the ones actually being emulated, have a multitude of reported issues.

 

The N64 emulation on Wii U is better than Rare Replay's. The emulation is top notch (sometimes running better as per DK 64) but has an annoying filter, but that has nothing to do with emulation

 

Also, please explain how the physics have been "dumbed down" in recent games. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone say such a thing.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Serebii

[Goron_3]

I think the issue with people about the N64 emulation is that they're looking at Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie for it. Those aren't emulated N64 titles, you're getting the remasters that came on the 360. The other titles, the ones actually being emulated, have a multitude of reported issues.

 

The N64 emulation on Wii U is better than Rare Replay's. The emulation is top notch (sometimes running better as per DK 64) but has an annoying filter, but that has nothing to do with emulation

 

Also, please explain how the physics have been "dumbed down" in recent games. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone say such a thing.

 

On the latter point, I've seen hundreds of people say the same thing. It stems from Miyamoto being told that Sunshine was too difficult so future games had to be easier to have wider appeal. Of course, this then continued with the way Nintendo went with the Wii. Compare the full physics engine of Mario 64 (weight, gravity, momentum) and the advanced movement options of Sunshine to Galaxy (not so bad due to the small round levels) and of course SM3DW which lacks a proper gravity engine (it uses the same jumping physics as the Game Boy versions, right?). Smash of course lacks momentum now amongst a hoard of other things. In fact, the movement options (and skill ceiling) in most of Nintendo's premiere Gamecube titles was VERY high. Of course with the Wii they went the other way - they're somewhere in the middle with the Wii U.

 

I'm surprised this is 'news' to you, it's pretty obvious that they've moved to making games more accessible for some time. Matthewmatosis does a great analysis of the Mario games and their engines; their worth watching if you're interested. The most obvious way to make games more accessible is to lower the skill ceiling by reducing the amount of movements options. A simpler physics engine is generally the easiest way to do this.

 

I'm pretty sure me and @Dcubed have discussed this multiple times on this board..I'm not sure how you've not seen it!

[Serebii]

On the latter point, I've seen hundreds of people say the same thing. It stems from Miyamoto being told that Sunshine was too difficult so future games had to be easier to have wider appeal. Of course, this then continued with the way Nintendo went with the Wii. Compare the full physics engine of Mario 64 (weight, gravity, momentum) and the advanced movement options of Sunshine to Galaxy (not so bad due to the small round levels) and of course SM3DW which lacks a proper gravity engine (it uses the same jumping physics as the Game Boy versions, right?). Smash of course lacks momentum now amongst a hoard of other things. In fact, the movement options (and skill ceiling) in most of Nintendo's premiere Gamecube titles was VERY high. Of course with the Wii they went the other way - they're somewhere in the middle with the Wii U.

 

I'm surprised this is 'news' to you, it's pretty obvious that they've moved to making games more accessible for some time. Matthewmatosis does a great analysis of the Mario games and their engines; their worth watching if you're interested. The most obvious way to make games more accessible is to lower the skill ceiling by reducing the amount of movements options. A simpler physics engine is generally the easiest way to do this.

 

I'm pretty sure me and @Dcubed have discussed this multiple times on this board..I'm not sure how you've not seen it!

Interesting way to look at it.

 

Though if you say Wii U is a middle ground, then surely that defeats your point as it shows they're trying to do what you suggested.

[Goron_3]

Interesting way to look at it.

 

Though if you say Wii U is a middle ground, then surely that defeats your point as it shows they're trying to do what you suggested.

 

Splatoon shows they are at a middle ground (I love Splatoon!!!) but not their other franchises. I can't think of a single improvement in the gameplay of Smash, Mario Kart or Mario since the Gamecube; most changes have lowered the skill ceiling for me just a bit too far. That said, I understand why they've aimed at casuals completely and my girlfriend absolutely loved SM3DW but she can barely play a game like SM64 or even Galaxy. It just depends who their target audience is I guess.

 

(Sorry for being off topic mods!)

[Serebii]

Splatoon shows they are at a middle ground (I love Splatoon!!!) but not their other franchises. I can't think of a single improvement in the gameplay of Smash, Mario Kart or Mario since the Gamecube; most changes have lowered the skill ceiling for me just a bit too far. That said, I understand why they've aimed at casuals completely and my girlfriend absolutely loved SM3DW but she can barely play a game like SM64 or even Galaxy. It just depends who their target audience is I guess.

 

(Sorry for being off topic mods!)

I dunno, I can see this sort of thing you're describing in New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi and so on.

 

Nintendo games lately have typically been easy to finish, tricky to master.

[Goron_3]

I dunno, I can see this sort of thing you're describing in New Super Mario Bros. U, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country, Yoshi and so on.

 

Nintendo games lately have typically been easy to finish, tricky to master.

 

They certainly get harder as the games progress but the skill ceiling is certainly higher in a game like Donkey Kong than say NSMB or other more recent games.

 

Excited to play Yoshi...Now I've finally finished Bloodborne I'm on it!

[Serebii]

They certainly get harder as the games progress but the skill ceiling is certainly higher in a game like Donkey Kong than say NSMB or other more recent games.

 

Excited to play Yoshi...Now I've finally finished Bloodborne I'm on it!

Try getting 100% in 4-S without any badges/mellow mode. Ultimate skill ceiling example.

 

You should enjoy Yoshi

[Dcubed]

Just wait for the day when ExciteTruck2 (there was NO ExciteBots, right guysss, no European release, no care) or F Zero finally get made/released and we all come crawling back.

 

...

 

...

 

:'(

 

Speaking of which... I really hope that one hits the Wii U eShop eventually, it's a cracking game! It's criminal that never came over!

 

Trauma Team's EU release comes first though

 

As for the issue of the darkness filter used on VC games, again I've gone over this before but most people really don't realise that it is actually done for the sake of accuracy. Really peeves me to see so many claim it to be "bad" emulation when it is actually the right way of displaying these games. Not only did the original consoles originally output a darkened image when the digital video signal gets converted to analogue for display on a TV, but the original CRTs that these games were designed for are also darker than the LCDs and Plasmas that we use today.

 

Just looking at scan line filters used on a myriad of emulators you can see how the image gets darkened in comparison to displaying the raw output. Game developers have always optimised for the type of display that their games are intended to be displayed on; even now, on 3DS in particular, you can see how developers use very bright and saturated pallets because they know that it is going to look darker and less saturated on an actual 3DS display (OoT3D's pallet in comparison to the N64 original is a really obvious example of this - hell you can even see this with screenshots of the 3DS NES VC in comparison to the Wii U NES VC - the former looks brighter in screenshots, but when comparing the displays side by side, they'll look the same in person.

 

Same thing for the people who complain about the NES/SNES games being displayed in a "stretched" 4 x 3 aspect ratio instead of being output in its raw resolution - that's how the games are supposed to look! Samus' morth ball is meant to be a circle, not an oval dammit! :p

 

Oh, BTW, thanks @Hero\-of\-Time for making me want Rare Replay again. Dammit! I don't have the money for another console right now!!!

Edited August 11, 2015 by Dcubed

[Fierce_LiNk]

Speaking of which... I really hope that one hits the Wii U eShop eventually, it's a cracking game! It's criminal that never came over!

 

Trauma Team's EU release comes first though

 

 

It's a crime we got neither of those games. I don't think I'd go back and play them now if released, I'd much rather play a brand new installment made with newer hardware in mind.

[Hero-of-Time]

 

Has anyone listened to this week's RFN? Jonny sums it up best:

 

'The emulation on XBO N64 games is better than the Wii U VC emulation. They have fewer issues, look incredible on HD screens and are significantly cheaper'.

 

And that's from a hardcore Nintendo fan

 

Yup. He didn't mention any issues and seemed to be having a great time with it.

 

Still can't believe that was his last show. I am keen to see how James does as host. His rule with an iron fist comment got a good laugh out of me, as did his antics on Doshin the Giant ( criminally overlooked game ).

[Sheikah]

 

The online on Wii U is phenomenal (and free). It may lack voice chat, but the online itself, nor the implementation in games, is not shoddy

Take notice, folks. Here is a sentence or two uttered by nobody ever before, and likely by nobody ever again.

[nekunando]

The downgrades in the physics engines of Smash, Mario and Mario Kart have left me disallusioned with them. I get it's because they want to simplify the gameplay for newcomers but gameplay should be pushed to the limit with a low skill floor AND a high skill ceiling; a low skill ceiling is not rewarding.

 

I prefer Super Smash Bros and, in particular, Mario Kart on Wii U to their Gamecube equivalents! I'd also argue that every Mario game released since Sunshine, regardless of physics, is superior

[Goron_3]

I prefer Super Smash Bros and, in particular, Mario Kart on Wii U to their Gamecube equivalents! I'd also argue that every Mario game released since Sunshine, regardless of physics, is superior

 

Yeah Sunshine is definitely the worst game overall. It's a shame because they nailed the engine but everything else was so poor

 

I'm sure others prefer those games too, but Brawl was too slow and boring for me. Smash 4 is a better step imo.

[Glen-i]

I prefer Super Smash Bros and, in particular, Mario Kart on Wii U to their Gamecube equivalents! I'd also argue that every Mario game released since Sunshine, regardless of physics, is superior

 

Agreed!

 

Funnily enough, @Dcubed and I played Double Dash recently.

Yeah, that game has kinda aged a bit.

The drift boost makes almost no difference to speed and don't even get me started on how much of a blatant padding All-Cup Tour is!

 

The only cool things it had going was the dual driver mechanic and the unique character items, which became completely pointless once you unlocked King Boo, who gets every item.

 

Smash Bros Melee drives me mental because of that BLOODY AIR DODGE! I keep forgetting it makes you helpless!

Also, it just isn't as mental as later installments, and I like mental!

[Fierce_LiNk]

Mechanically, I prefer Mario Kart on the WiiU to both the Wii version and Double Dash.

 

But, steadily, I think it's becoming apparent just how limited the game is in terms of modes. Battle mode is an absolute travesty and uncharacteristically broken. There's a real lack of single player modes or challenge, at least in my opinion.

 

It's not as random as the Wii version, which was truly awful at times. There's definite room for improvement.

 

Graphics, sound and mechanics are still outstanding.

 

Melee is untouchable.

[Dcubed]

Can't really agree with Glen-i on Double Dash there. I think it's still great! I actually like it a lot more now than I did when it first came out - the semi-realistic physics really make it stand out from the rest of the series!

 

I'd say it's up there amongst MK8, SMK and MKDS as one of the best (MK Wii is my least favourite BTW; don't like how it feels at all and I'm not a big fan of most of the track designs in there - plus it is very lacking in polish in many places that I can't be bothered to go into depth with right now).

 

Likewise, in hindsight I have a lot more appreciation for Mario Sunshine than I did when it first came out. While is does undeniably have its problems (Hotel Delfino is without a doubt the most poorly designed world/stage in all of Mario History), it's a game that is absolutely joyous to play! It has such fantastic game feel and mechanical depth! (belly flopping everywhere is great fun!) Mathew Matosis put it best by calling it "The best unfinished game ever made"

 

Melee is one that I find less fun than I did back in the day though. I actually prefer the slower pace in Brawl and (to a lesser extent, as it is a sort of middle ground) Smash 4 and I feel that they're just much more polished games overall (Brawl's horrible load times excepted of course, they were terrible!); which makes sense, considering that Melee was made in a very short amount of time in comparison. I also prefer the manic chaos that Brawl and Smash 4 provide (I've never been a hardcore competitive player - I'm definately a For Fun guy, even though I like 1 v 1 as well).

Edited August 12, 2015 by Dcubed

[Goron_3]

Agreed!

 

Funnily enough, @Dcubed and I played Double Dash recently.

Yeah, that game has kinda aged a bit.

The drift boost makes almost no difference to speed and don't even get me started on how much of a blatant padding All-Cup Tour is!

 

The only cool things it had going was the dual driver mechanic and the unique character items, which became completely pointless once you unlocked King Boo, who gets every item.

 

Smash Bros Melee drives me mental because of that BLOODY AIR DODGE! I keep forgetting it makes you helpless!

Also, it just isn't as mental as later installments, and I like mental!

 

Keep in mind that Double Dash was designed so that the power slide mechanic was high risk = high reward. One boost was worth a little but the whole point was that you could get several throughout one corner.

 

 

The tracks were generally much narrower too, much like SMK, MK:DS and Super Circuit.

 

Melee is god tier for me because of how bloody quick it is. It still blows my mind - I wish we could see a Smash game with Melee's physics engine but the content of Smash 4.

 

@Dcubed, your thoughts on Sunshine seem to be the same as mine. It lacks good level design but mechanically it's the peak of Mario games. I don't think any 3D platformer has matched it since.

[Serebii]

Wario: Master of Disguise this week

[Ike]

I've not actually played that, I heard it was bad. Worth checking out?

[Serebii]

I've not actually played that, I heard it was bad. Worth checking out?

It's held back somewhat by the fact that you have to draw to get his costume changes, and the detection for it isn't so great

[darksnowman]

I've not actually played that, I heard it was bad. Worth checking out?

 

I'm a fan of the Wario Land games so Master of Disguise was naturally on my radar... that was, until the reviews hit.

 

http://www.gametrailers.com/reviews/s2cvfp/wario--master-of-disguise-review

[Hero-of-Time]

They should have put Wario Land: Shake Dimension on the shop instead. Stunning game that deserved more attention from the public. Shame on all of you who didn't buy it!