Wii U VC

[Zechs Merquise]

I think the saves states is an interesting discussion.

 

You have to remember a lot of games were products of their time. They didn't have the ability to save the game due to in game saves simply not being invented!

 

What's more, game design was tied heavily to the arcade scene, which was governed by the desire for kids to pump more and more change into a unit to buy continues and lives. Hence, games were set up with a finite number of lives and continues. Also, arcade games were generally more difficult and played at a different pace to games these days.

 

If these games were created now, like Shovel Knight, there would be multiple save points during each level and the ability to save after each boss or level. Back in the NES days you often had to complete a game in one sitting - or at least clear a full level before a 'continue' would be of any use.

 

Whilst I don't like using save states for most games as I feel they ruin the experience, in some rare cases even I end up using them!

 

I recently completed Castlevania, Super Castlevania IV and Castlevania Dracula X on the Wii VC without any saves states (as there's only suspension points which are completely different and justified). I feel using save states would have prevented me from truly mastering the games.

 

However there are certain NES games like Castlevania III that are virtually impossible to complete without a save state. To beat Dracula you must go through the whole last level and defeat his three forms in one life! It's not strictly impossible, but it's pretty damn close.

 

So overall, I can see why using save states in some cases is justified, once you start using them regularly as a standard, you end up breezing through games but never truly mastering them. Back in the NES days mastering games was a huge part of the experience.

 

You might have only got a handful of games every year - and you made them last. Knowing every enemy, every stage and being able to walk through a game like a pro was a great feeling and something only achieved after hours and hours of play.

 

All of this is probably why modern gamers just don't have the skill levels that are present in those who cut their teeth on games like Ninja Gaiden, Blue Shadow, MegaMan, Probotector, Castlevania and other classics on the NES.

[Dcubed]

All well said! It's a concession that keeps everyone happy really. Even for us who played these games on the original consoles back in the day, you probably found yourself asking friends/family to help you through the tougher parts of these games growing up anyway.

 

Save States/Restore Points are basically the closest equivalent you can get to that with these classic titles; so it's no surprise that a lot of people really appreciate them being there. In this modern era, people just don't find the time that they had before; even many kids find themselves bombarded with heavy demands on their time and patience these days, be it through social demand or just the sheer wealth of entertainment/educational/social networking content out there - or if they do dedicate time to playing games, they often don't have older siblings who cut their teeth on those tougher titles back in the day to fall back on.

 

As long as you are rewarded for playing games in their intended way (the satisfaction of recieving no "Mark of Shame" for beating it without resorting to fall backs like Restore Points or Super Guide), these systems are fine by me!

[Wii]

Nothing released for VC again this week.

[Dcubed]

Probably because we've got the Amiibo Touch and Play thingy coming out this week...

 

which incidentally includes demos based off the US versions of Super Metroid, Zelda ALTTP and Kirby's Adventure; despite the actual games being 50hz only...

[Wii]

Yep just read that.

 

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Wii-U-download-software/amiibo-Touch-Play-Nintendo-Classics-Highlights-986009.html

 

Fairly annoying. We can have 60Hz demos but not for the full game that we pay for.

 

amiibo Tap is useless to me and even if I had amiibo it would still be useless. And it's no excuse for no VC releases. What was their excuse for the other weeks?

Edited April 27, 2015 by Wii

[dazzybee]

What ar you guys moaning about, there's Sin and Punishment (refuse to not lump Wii in with the rest of the virtual consoles)

[S.C.G]

What ar you guys moaning about, there's Sin and Punishment (refuse to not lump Wii in with the rest of the virtual consoles)

 

Refuse as you might, the digital Wii releases - welcome as they are - can't be classed as Virtual Console titles but you can pretend if you like.

 

I get what you mean though, it's a decent game so it at least fills a gap for those who haven't played it before or who want to play it again in digital form, at least it's 'only' £13.49 for the first week as opposed to £17.99...

 

Of course I'm not wanting to open the 'big price debate' again but for anyone wanting this, you can either buy it for £5 - £8 physically online or second hand but if you'd prefer it digitally then £13.49 isn't unreasonable if you're going disc-free. : peace:

[Glen-i]

Of course I'm not wanting to open the 'big price debate' again but for anyone wanting this, you can either buy it for £5 - £8 physically online or second hand but if you'd prefer it digitally then £13.49 isn't unreasonable if you're going disc-free. : peace:

 

I'm buying it partly for the convenience of disc-free, partly for faster loading times and partly to support the game because it's a fantastic little gem that I've been wanting ever since Wii games on WiiU was revealed.

 

(BTW Ninty, if you're reading this, and I know you are because you clearly have spies on me, I would happily pay full price for Disaster: Day of Crisis, and I'm sure many Americans would do the same)

[nekunando]

I'm buying it partly for the convenience of disc-free, partly for faster loading times and partly to support the game because it's a fantastic little gem that I've been wanting ever since Wii games on WiiU was revealed.

 

(BTW Ninty, if you're reading this, and I know you are because you clearly have spies on me, I would happily pay full price for Disaster: Day of Crisis, and I'm sure many Americans would do the same)

 

For me, the downloadable Wii titles on Wii U will remain unnecessary until they give us Excitebots in Europe.. then I'm totally in : peace:

[Wii]

What ar you guys moaning about, there's Sin and Punishment (refuse to not lump Wii in with the rest of the virtual consoles)

 

I've explained before why Wii games are not VC games. The biggest benefit for me would be restore points which Wii games don't have. Silly price again for Sin & Punishment. It's cheaper to buy it new on disc and after the first week discount it's even cheaper again.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Wii

[Glen-i]

I've explained before why Wii games are not VC games. The biggest benefit for me would be restore points which Wii games don't have. Silly price again for Sin & Punishment. It's cheaper to buy it new on disc.

 

I thought we were past this...

[Wii]

I thought we were past this...

 

Nope. It's alright for the likes of Metroid Prime Trilogy but games like Sin & Punishment and Punch Out are a rip-off.

 

And their Kirby "sale" is annoying. All the games are marked down by 50% and that includes the forthcoming deals this week except for Kibys Adventure, that's only reduced by 25%. That's the only Kirby game I want and I refuse to pay a cent over €10 for any Wii game. It's down in 8th place on the eShop charts behind the other Kirby games and with good reason. I don't believe it reached number 1 either when it first released.

[Glen-i]

Nope. It's alright for the likes of Metroid Prime Trilogy but games like Sin & Punishment and Punch Out are a rip-off.

 

Well, all I can say is "Buy the disc version then if you can get it cheaper"

 

I, however believe that S&P 2 has a perfectly OK price. The game is brilliant and deserves it.

[Serebii]

Nintendo specifically said they didn't want to make it so a game was classed as more valuable than another on the same platform. Deal with it

[Wii]

Well, all I can say is "Buy the disc version then if you can get it cheaper"

 

I, however believe that S&P 2 has a perfectly OK price. The game is brilliant and deserves it.

 

You see I don't need to because I already own them. The price gives someone like me no incentive to rebuy them. And even today on Ebay both Punch Out and S&P are half the eShop price. Owning them physically is far better than owning the eShop versions.

 

Nintendo specifically said they didn't want to make it so a game was classed as more valuable than another on the same platform. Deal with it

 

Nintendo can deal with crap sales so.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Wii
Automerged Doublepost

[Glen-i]

You see I don't need to because I already own them.

 

You ever considered the notion that you might not be the target audience then?

I'm pretty sure the majority of sales will be people who didn't own a Wii/Didn't buy the game when it originally came out.

 

The price gives someone like me no incentive to rebuy them. And even today on Ebay both Punch Out and S&P are half the eShop price. Owning them physically is far better than owning the eShop versions.

 

You see, I disagree.

I much prefer to have a game available digitally. I very rarely trade-in games. So having digital games makes a lot of sense to me.

It's great being able to jump into games like Monster Hunter, Metroid Prime and NSMB 2 whenever I feel like it.

[Wii]

You ever considered the notion that you might not be the target audience then?

I'm pretty sure the majority of sales will be people who didn't own a Wii/Didn't buy the game when it originally came out.

 

 

 

You see, I disagree.

I much prefer to have a game available digitally. I very rarely trade-in games. So having digital games makes a lot of sense to me.

It's great being able to jump into games like Monster Hunter, Metroid Prime and NSMB 2 whenever I feel like it.

 

I know that I'm not the target audience, that's why I said someone like me.

 

Well I never trade in ever but I still prefer having something tangible and it I ever want to sell a game or lend it, it's no problem. They've a greater chance of increasing in value. I can play the game on any Wii/Wii U. What happens in years to come when the hard drive dies and there's no servers anymore to redownload it? I often think about things just like Super Mario Kart which I still own over 20 years later and can still play it, what will be the scene in 20 years time?

[Glen-i]

I know that I'm not the target audience, that's why I said someone like me.

 

Well I never trade in ever but I still prefer having something tangible and it I ever want to sell a game or lend it, it's no problem. They've a greater chance of increasing in value. I can play the game on any Wii/Wii U. What happens in years to come when the hard drive dies and there's no servers anymore to redownload it? I often think about things just like Super Mario Kart which I still own over 20 years later and can still play it, what will be the scene in 20 years time?

 

Understandable, but wouldn't having some kind of backup solve the issue of hard drive dying?

 

I'm not saying that physical copies are worthless, I just think they have more benefits to me in particular.

It's the statement of "Owning them physically is far better than owning the eShop versions." that I just can't agree with.

 

Of course it all depends on how Ninty will tackle the current eShop games when the NX is eventually released.

If they're smart, they'll allow people to transfer NNID's and everything they contain over.

Of course, there's no way of knowing that now.

[Wii]

Ya and they'll probably charge us extra to convert to the NX version.

[Glen-i]

Ya and they'll probably charge us extra to convert to the NX version.

 

[Dcubed]

Personally, I think that the issue of longevity in terms of physical vs digital is a bit of a misnomer because the real problem is not really the lifespan of the game itself, but rather its the lifespan of the hardware it runs on.

 

Be it physical or digital, the game will still be completely useless once the hardware it runs on expires. Digital games can be backed up onto multiple storage devices, so even if the eShop went down before the discs succumbed to disc rot (which they will do eventually - not even physical games last forever), the digital games can be repeatedly backed up anyway.

 

That is why backwards compatibility is so important. THAT is what will really keep games alive. Be it through emulation, or through hardware means, the games will only last for as long as they can be run on hardware that is capable of running them.

 

Ya and they'll probably charge us extra to convert to the NX version.

 

Going by their current roadmap, it's very likely that the Wii U VC version IS the NX version...

 

I'd be very surprised if they make any changes at all to the currently available VC games when their next gen handheld and console come out. Everything points to them just running the Wii U VC games as they are on their next console and handheld (as in, literally running the exact same code; exactly as it is now).

 

With the Wii VC, they HAD to start again because there wasn't any real way that they could abstract any of the OS related functions (and they had a laundry list of features that they wanted to add that they simply couldn't); remember that the Wii didn't have a proper OS that ran in the background, so they couldn't do anything like running games from USB, or adding Miiverse support, or anything like that.

 

With the Wii U VC however, they have all that nuts and bolts stuff abstracted; with things like USB loading support and such being handled by a separate co-processor that handles all OS related stuff. This means that (assuming that the NX console/handheld is indeed effectively a turbo charged/underclocked Wii U as everything is pointing to), there will be no need for them to do any sort of re-coding/upgrading process to have everything run on the NX like a native game does (so there should be no need for any sort of "Wii U Menu" next time around)

[Mandalore]

Are Kirby's Dream Land 2 or 3 worth getting?

[Ike]

I probably wouldn't have bought S&P2 at full price, but it's pretty tempting at £13.49/

 

Techy speak

 

There's no way the NX will be able to emulate the Wii so it would have to be hardware based the same as the Wii U. But hopefully not at cost of the NX hardware. Which also potentially means the new handheld could play Wii games (although this is mostly wishful thinking on my part, not sure if that's feasible).

 

Since Nintendo are claiming to have proper accounts for the NX (this is one of the reasons I suspect they killed of Club Nintendo to aim towards this) I am expecting everything that's currently on the Wii U to be available right off the bat.

 

Nintendo are usually good at supporting backwards compatibility (not including the VC here as that's a different thing) so I'm not that worried.

 

This is Nintendo though so you never know.

[Dcubed]

There's no way the NX will be able to emulate the Wii so it would have to be hardware based the same as the Wii U. But hopefully not at cost of the NX hardware. Which also potentially means the new handheld could play Wii games (although this is mostly wishful thinking on my part, not sure if that's feasible).

 

Since Nintendo are claiming to have proper accounts for the NX (this is one of the reasons I suspect they killed of Club Nintendo to aim towards this) I am expecting everything that's currently on the Wii U to be available right off the bat.

 

Nintendo are usually good at supporting backwards compatibility (not including the VC here as that's a different thing) so I'm not that worried.

 

This is Nintendo though so you never know.

 

If the NX console can play Wii U games, then it will also be able to play Wii and GCN games natively by default; because the Wii U's hardware is a superset of the Wii (which in turn is also a superset of the GCN). Just like how the 3DS can play GBA games, because it has the DSi hardware inside it (and the DS/DSi just so happens to incorporate the GBA hardware inside it).

 

As for the handheld... With it supposedly being based on the Wii U's hardware architecture, as long as it has at least Wii level specs, it'll be able to play both Wii and GCN games technically (not that you'd actually be able to control most Wii games without a Wiimote though :p)

 

There's a good reason why Nintendo is investing so much into the Wii U VC and not into the 3DS VC service...

 

Are Kirby's Dream Land 2 or 3 worth getting?

 

Dreamland 3 is well worth your time. It's not exactly my favourite in the series, but it's really very underrated with some cool ideas and some great music! A bit sluggish in terms of control and pacing, but it has plenty of good ideas and interesting gameplay throughout : peace:

 

Dreamland 2 however is definitely my least favourite of the Kirby series (and I've played through them all). If you've played through all the other Kirby games and love them, then go ahead and give it a whirl, but every other Kirby game is better IMO.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

Personally, I think that the issue of longevity in terms of physical vs digital is a bit of a misnomer because the real problem is not really the lifespan of the game itself, but rather its the lifespan of the hardware it runs on.

 

Be it physical or digital, the game will still be completely useless once the hardware it runs on expires. Digital games can be backed up onto multiple storage devices, so even if the eShop went down before the discs succumbed to disc rot (which they will do eventually - not even physical games last forever), the digital games can be repeatedly backed up anyway.

 

That is why backwards compatibility is so important. THAT is what will really keep games alive. Be it through emulation, or through hardware means, the games will only last for as long as they can be run on hardware that is capable of running them.

 

 

 

Going by their current roadmap, it's very likely that the Wii U VC version IS the NX version...

 

I'd be very surprised if they make any changes at all to the currently available VC games when their next gen handheld and console come out. Everything points to them just running the Wii U VC games as they are on their next console and handheld (as in, literally running the exact same code; exactly as it is now).

 

With the Wii VC, they HAD to start again because there wasn't any real way that they could abstract any of the OS related functions (and they had a laundry list of features that they wanted to add that they simply couldn't); remember that the Wii didn't have a proper OS that ran in the background, so they couldn't do anything like running games from USB, or adding Miiverse support, or anything like that.

 

With the Wii U VC however, they have all that nuts and bolts stuff abstracted; with things like USB loading support and such being handled by a separate co-processor that handles all OS related stuff. This means that (assuming that the NX console/handheld is indeed effectively a turbo charged/underclocked Wii U as everything is pointing to), there will be no need for them to do any sort of re-coding/upgrading process to have everything run on the NX like a native game does (so there should be no need for any sort of "Wii U Menu" next time around)

Backwards compatibility can only go so far though. Eventually they will drop past systems because it's too expensive to make new consoles compatible with everything. It also makes no sense financially for them to make their new console compatible with games that are maybe 30-40 years old (talking about the future here).

 

If anything, the future is streaming. From what I hear from the guys here who trialled PS Now, the tech is definitely getting there, if not almost there. On demand streaming of any game that you want, where every play of a game gives them back money and they needn't role out the technology to every new console owner. Especially important given that only the minority will realistically want to play old games on their new console anyway. After all, that's not really why you buy a new system, and many such nostalgia vultures keep their old consoles and games anyway...

Edited April 27, 2015 by Sheikah