The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds

[Ramar]

 

Nope, fringe fits

 

Sorry Nintendo Defence Service.

 

I meant in my opinion Link doesn't look right. As in I personally do not like Link's design in this game.

 

Though to be fair Link looked nothing like that artwork in the original..

[Serebii]

Sorry Nintendo Defence Service.

 

I meant in my opinion Link doesn't look right. As in I personally do not like Link's design in this game.

 

Though to be fair Link looked nothing like that artwork in the original..

I'm just saying it matches how they intended Link to look in the original. Jeez

[RedShell]

Well I am loving the visual style they've got going on with this.

I reckon it brings the look and vibe of retro 2D Zelda into 3D perfectly. :awesome:

 

Gonna be nice to have another 3DS game that really makes use of the 3D effect as a gameplay device too, other than SM3DL there hasn't been much of that kind of thing on the system at all.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Oh, and agreed, it is heresay to claim any Zelda to be better than ALTTP, especially TWW.

Good man. Like Reggie this is my favourite game ever.

Nah, Wind Waker trumps all I'm afraid, especially ALTTP

"GET THE F**K OUT BEFORE I CALL PORICE!"

[Hogge]

Very nostalgic looking game.

Not quite my type of thing, for some reason I dislike the 2D-ish camera angles. For me, you somehow feel disconnected from your character in a top-down view.

[Ike]

I meant in my opinion Link doesn't look right. As in I personally do not like Link's design in this game.

 

Yeah, his hair isn't pink!

 

Looks amazing in the trailer on an actual 3DS-

[Cube]

Looks amazing in the trailer on an actual 3DS-

 

It actually does look better on the 3DS. In the screenshots/2D footage Link just kind of merged with the level (in a "hard to spot him" kind of way). Not as good as a Four Swords Adventures/Minish Cap look could have been, but still good.

 

However, when the Stalfos' throwing boned are deflected high up - such a pointless animation just for the 3D looks dreadful. That needs to go.

 

I'd also like to argue that WW is better than ALttP, but I haven't played ALttP.

[Grazza]

Best news about this game for me (not being into the 2D Zelda's)...

 

Is that it isn't using the Wind Waker graphics engine, which we though was a direction the Handheld Zelda's might continue to go... it's actually a more of an Adult Link game.

 

Makes me more hopeful of a Wind Waker 2 on Wii U, with the remake acting as the intro for those new to the series!

 

Yes, I wonder about that. Take this Eiji Aonuma quote from January 2012:

 

The long sailing time of creating Skyward Sword, a game to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Zelda series, has just come to an end. The voices of those who’ve played it from around the world reach us. We hear their admiration, comments and their criticism too. All those voices become energy for the next voyage. Well, to tell the truth, we’ve already set sail in a new voyage.

 

http://mynintendonews.com/2012/01/09/nintendo-working-on-new-zelda-game-for-nintendo-3ds/

 

At the time I took that as a blatant hint that Zelda 3DS = Wind Waker style. However, Aonuma also refers to Skyward Sword as having a "sailing time", so perhaps I was getting ahead of myself.

 

Assuming it was a hint though, I wonder what this means now. Did they shelve a Wind Waker-type Zelda for the 3DS, are they still working on one or was he just referring to the remake of the original game on Wii U?

 

Quote from @Serebii:

 

As reported by our friends over at 1Up, Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma recently stated that Miyamoto's intentions still haven't altered. "Well actually, even Mr. Miyamoto himself has been talking recently about going back to the 2D Zelda games," he said. "In particular the ones that were designed with multiple levels to the world like A Link to the Past, and taking those 2D graphics and recreating them in 3D so that you could get a sense for the depth of those worlds."

 

Aonuma went on to say, "That's something that might be interesting to do, so I would say there might be a possibility of something like that in the future." All focus will undoubtedly be on the original 3DS Zelda title for quite some time, but this proves the chances of us seeing an updated version of one of the greatest Zelda games of all time are very good indeed.

 

So, if we take a Link to the Past remake and a Link to the Past sequel as meaning the same thing (after all, it sounds like Nintendo were very undecided about which it would be), it sounds to me like there was another 3DS Zelda which Aonuma was more focused on. I hope it still exists.

[Agent Gibbs]

I'd also like to argue that WW is better than ALttP, but I haven't played ALttP.

 

 

GO PLAY IT

[Cube]

GO PLAY IT

 

I'm saving it for Extra Life.

[Jonnas]

Personally, I'm stoked. Awkward visuals aside, I'm just glad to see them revisiting the 2D Zelda formula again.

 

Oh, and agreed, it is heresay to claim any Zelda to be better than ALTTP, especially TWW.

 

I think LttP is one of the worst, and that WW is the best

 

(Though I do plan on replaying LttP to give it another chance)

 

Why would they say word for word "it features a new storyline and entirely new dungeons" if the overworld was different to ALTTP.

 

Considering the rumours were that this would be a LttP remake, I think they just wanted to say that no, this isn't a remake.

 

Seriously, all of this "same overworld" thing going around is based on some off-hand comment that can mean anything. It's likely to be quite similar, but remember that Oracle of Seasons also started out as a remake and ended up being much different.

[James McGeachie]

So....

 

What if there's stylus controls?

 

I liked them in PH and ST.....BUT....

[Agent Gibbs]

So....

 

What if there's stylus controls?

 

I liked them in PH and ST.....BUT....

 

I refer to my previous GIF if thats how its played.....

 

chances are it won't be given the contextual A button seen in the demo

[Dcubed]

I had absoultely no idea which direction they'd take for a 3DS Zelda game. Now I noticed Miyamoto and Aonuma's interest in revisiting ALTTP, when they were commenting on how the multilayer design of ALTTP was perfect for S3D; but I thought that they were considering a 3D Classics remake, not a full on sequel!

 

It makes perfect sense. The main gimmick behind ALTTP's gameplay was not the magic meter, the new items or even necessarily the light world/dark world mechanic (though that was a huge part of it of course) but was actually parallax scrolling. Thanks to the SNES' advancements over the NES, they could finally have multilayered environments and dungeons (with elevation playing a key role in environmental design).

 

So when it comes to seeing what S3D can offer to the Zelda gameplay, what better way to explore the 3DS' features than to revisit the core concept of the game that was all about multilayered depth in the first place and expand on it! They could actually have enemies that float over you that you can actually really fight in mid air! Or puzzles that require you to move from different heights!

 

The thing that's a bit weird about this is the fact that it takes place in the same world. That makes it the second sequel to ALTTP (after Ancient Stone Tablets for the BSX Satellaview), so I hope that they greatly expand the actual game world of ALTTP Hyrule!

[Fused King]

Yo yo yo!

 

I heard Windwaker getting critised in here.

 

Team ho!

 

 

@Ronnie

Me and my pals got yo back!

 

------

 

Regarding the new Zelda, I think they've done a fine job with the new art direction.

I especially love when Link gets catapulted in the air by those pink things and you can see him being all bad ass in 3D.

I like that they're going for old-school Link here.

[-Dem0-]

Me and my pals got yo back!

 

Me too! Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda. Can't say it's better than ALTTP as I hardly played that game.

[Ronnie]

I find it very hard to compare 2D and 3D Zeldas, they're very different. Having said that Wind Waker HD is game of the year for me without a doubt, can't wait.

 

As for this game, I really hope Nintendo don't continue their recent trend of doing things half-arsed. The same overworld as ALTTP is a major issue IMO. I can already see reviews talking about how once again Nintendo kill off exploration in a Zelda game because we all know the lay of the land already. At least it's marginally better than the Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks on rails overworlds, or the level select one from Skyward Sword.

[Captain Falcon]

 

I think LttP is one of the worst, and that WW is the best

 

(Though I do plan on replaying LttP to give it another chance)

 

Considering the rumours were that this would be a LttP remake, I think they just wanted to say that no, this isn't a remake.

 

Seriously, all of this "same overworld" thing going around is based on some off-hand comment that can mean anything. It's likely to be quite similar, but remember that Oracle of Seasons also started out as a remake and ended up being much different.

 

All I can say to the bolded is that it's a good job you like Fire Emblem son or things would be getting rather heated right now

 

Oracles didn't actually start out as a remake. Yes the original plan was to do a remake but they had plans for half a dozen Zelda games at the time which included the remake and the Oracle games and scrapped ideas. In the end, the remake was also ditched in favour of something brand new. As can be seen from the trailer, the bit they've shown was exactly the same and I don't have an issue with it personally as long as they bulk it out in other areas.

 

Clearly they wanted to do something with ALTTP, as they dropped enough hints in interviews, but they didn't want to be doing a straight remake - remaking MM seemed to be coming more from fans than from Nintendo. So this half-way house between new and old should tick enough boxes to entice all but now it just has to be good, as in really god damn amazing, if it's to live up to ALTTP.

 

 

It makes perfect sense. The main gimmick behind ALTTP's gameplay was not the magic meter, the new items or even necessarily the light world/dark world mechanic (though that was a huge part of it of course) but was actually parallax scrolling. Thanks to the SNES' advancements over the NES, they could finally have multilayered environments and dungeons (with elevation playing a key role in environmental design).

 

It was my understanding that Parallax Scrolling was when different layers are moved at different speeds to create the illusion of depth in an otherwise 2D composed image. And in that regard, ALTTP uses incredibly little PS - it's relagated to rain, fog, and for giving notice to which holes can be dropped through. It's never used for created depth within a multi-tier room itself.

 

Now if you are just referring to having multiple background layers that can be interacted with then sure it does that, but not as often as it appears. The vast majority of dungeon rooms take place on one tier within any given room and even those with multiple tiers are often drawn on a single background layer - some of the dungeons don't have any multi-tiered rooms full stop. The overworld has multiple height levels but that too is just one single layer with nothing else to either scroll against to create depth.

 

It uses multilayers to help with designing the levels from an pure design perspective so they can see where paths go but they always scroll at the same speed and Link in general is unable to interact with the other tier. You can't stand on one tier and affect anything on the other as you would in a 3D game and so the depth becomes a substitue for inpassable walls and one way doors - something perferectly replicatable on much simpler hardware and if drawn right, also capable of creating depth. ALTTP design for creating depth doesn't make sense when you break it down, it just happens to look right and is easy to understand as a player but it's all a giant fudge.

 

Link's Awakening managed to replicate a fair chunk of ALTTPs depth techniques because in both cases it could mostly be done on a single plane with one set of collision boundaries that worked regardless of what tier the player was on.

 

By their own admission, ALTTP wasn't a technical showcase outside the map zoom. The floating triforce pieces were the only other thing of note in terms of "effects". It was just more of everything.

 

Heck, even this remake uses the exact same trick because and can be seen when he walks past the narrow section near the entrance to Death Mountain. The terrain is supposed to be elevated here, and Link can "drop down" if he stands on the top part but his size never changes shape despite being further from/closer to the camera and nor do any other objects in the scene except for the crows who genuiely are closer to the camera when in the air. The dungeon, on the other hand, appears to be done in true 3D and not some hybrid.

 

So yeah, I can't say I agree that that was the trick to being a better game than previous entries. For me, it was because the world had more identity, more purpose, and more coherent rules that permitted it. It simply comes down to smarter design and again, these ideas were perfectly capable of being transposed to lesser hardware such as the GB and GBC.

 

There are plenty of reason why ALTTP was so good and whilst some of these could simply be labelled as doing it first, none of the other games have every managed to do it better despite the passage of time.

 

It was the improvements in Link's control - he handles horribly in the original game. The fact he swing his sword in an arch meant you covered more range and it made fight enemies easier and less fussy - plus he had the spin attack too for hitting enemies on all sides instead of the awful maneuvering he does in the first (it's like a three point turn). Walls that could be bombed looked as though they could be bombed instead of being another piece of repetative background tiles with no defining characteristics - OoT is just as bad as without the Stone of Agony, you would have to bomb/hammer every piece of the floor. The overworld and dungeons were packed full of items that could be interacted with and it was always immediately obvious which parts were for show and which could actually be manipulated. And that manipulated items could affect the level futher nails that greater sense of world that can be lived in. Every area has distinguishing features that set it apart from other areas which made it difficult to get lost and there were signposts dotted around as well, plus your map. Deadends were filled with treasure and not just blocks to prevent you from passing any further. Villagers gave genuine hints that helped but only when they should know what it is your doing. Once you go to the darkworld, they can't help and why should they as they don't know what's there. In that world you are on your own except for the maidens, and two coversations with Sahasrahla though perhaps there are other around who might be willing to help if you can find them. Plus there is the fortune teller if you still need help. The game is happy to tell you where you need to go but it never tells you how to get there. Items had more uses and it allowed you to come up with more strategies for fighting the better and more varied enemies, and certainly the bosses. No longer were items seperated into Weapons or Equipment with just one purpose - they were multi functional allowing for attacking and navigation at once. Dungeons were better because they had more variety in puzzle types and could populate them with more interesting gimmicks but depth was only a part of those gimmicks overall but certainly not the main one and not hardware dependent either.

 

Tranplanting ALTTP dungeon design, as in purely the multi-tiered layout, and keeping every element of of the original as was (wonky controls, bland graphics, unmarked passages, lack of direction), would still result in an awkward game that felt incredibly dated by todays standards (dated in terms of execution, not concept) but adding ALTTPs gameplay improvements to the originals overworld/dungeons would make for a much nicer experience which would still hold up today. It was refinements in ideas all around and almost every facet was not in anyway dependant on the host machine.

 

At least, that's my opinion.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Captain Falcon

[Jonnas]

Oracles didn't actually start out as a remake. Yes the original plan was to do a remake but they had plans for half a dozen Zelda games at the time which included the remake and the Oracle games and scrapped ideas. In the end, the remake was also ditched in favour of something brand new. As can be seen from the trailer, the bit they've shown was exactly the same and I don't have an issue with it personally as long as they bulk it out in other areas.

 

Oh, but the assets for the remake can still be seen in Oracle of Seasons. The first dungeon's entrance resembles the one in the original, plus the bosses are the same (in both name and appearance, at least)

 

Just saying, the logic that we're using to reach the conclusion that the overworld in this game... we could use it to reach the conclusion that Oracle of Seasons is a remake of the first game (considering a few screens in OoS do resemble the original game)

[Captain Falcon]

Oh, but the assets for the remake can still be seen in Oracle of Seasons. The first dungeon's entrance resembles the one in the original, plus the bosses are the same (in both name and appearance, at least)

 

Just saying, the logic that we're using to reach the conclusion that the overworld in this game... we could use it to reach the conclusion that Oracle of Seasons is a remake of the first game (considering a few screens in OoS do resemble the original game)

 

True. I guess the difference here is that a) we know they wanted to remake ALTTP anyway, b) they've said it takes place in the same world at the same time as ALTTP, and c) it looks the same too. So it has slightly more going for it than Oracles because despite them having some hangovers to the original remake, it was decided they should totally break free of it whereas here they are making it well known they are not. The Oracle games feature a few of the classic bosses like Aquamentus, Gohma and Dodongo but it's difficult to say whether they decided to use because they had already made them or because they were trying to generate three games worth of bosses at once and thought simply about bringing them back.

 

Oracle went from remake to original game whereas this appears to have gone from remake to remix and when positioned as taking place alonside it's inspiration (so no alternate timeline/dimension BS), it's not strange to think that it wouldn't feature the same world for the most part.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Captain Falcon

[Serebii]

From the 3DS event yesterday

 

 

Confirms for sure that it's not touch-screen control, and you can have multiple weapons prepped

[pratty]

I've mangaged to resist buying a 3DS with my mighty backlog of Wii, DS and GBA games still to finish. This ensures I will deffinitely be getting a 3DS at some point.

[bryanee]

Heres another video

 

 

Looks great.

[Retro_Link]

Oh ok yours is better! :p I'll delete mine!

[Agent Gibbs]

man @Captain Falcon, you really talk so pasionately and knowledgable about some games, games that i love too (deus ex and alttp specifically)