Posted March 20, 2013 @kav82 But couldn't you think similarly about this case as well? How did he end up using drugs? What was his personal history before getting tangled up in all of this? I mean there could be a plethora of factors influencing all this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 @kav82 But couldn't you think similarly about this case as well? How did he end up using drugs? What was his personal history before getting tangled up in all of this? I mean there could be a plethora of factors influencing all this... No... I shot two Onondaga County sheriff’s deputies inside the Town of Dewitt courtroom during a failed escape attempt, killing one and critically wounding the other. He was in court, he knew why he was there and knew he had done wrong and wanted to eacape punishment even if it meant killing people. He didn't give it a second thought. His life, in my eyes, should be forfeit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 What do you mean by 'forfeit', though? No one is saying he shouldn't be punished. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 What do you mean by 'forfeit', though? No one is saying he shouldn't be punished. Yeah I realise it looks very vague me saying forfeit. In regards to this case I just think that he should throw away his views on his punishment and should accept it, no matter how severe it may seem to him. He's still breathing and thinking clearly with a conscience... his victim isn't. He ended a persons life. His punishment fits. Never mind the sentencing, I think some are taking the issue of ending someone's life too lightly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 No... He was in court, he knew why he was there and knew he had done wrong and wanted to eacape punishment even if it meant killing people. He didn't give it a second thought. His life, in my eyes, should be forfeit. I was giving you more extreme cases so that you would see that the world isn't as black and white as you think and might consider other factors when looking at someone. Just because he knew what he did, doesn't mean his crime is a result of his innate cruelty. Many factors that I spoke of previously could still apply. He could still have the neural configuration that sees an opportunity for gain go through his mental processes without inhibition from a logical counterpoint. Just because his thinking is clear doesn't mean his brain is not flawed, that people don't make mistakes and can't make decisions that in hindsight seem terrible. When you are not taught to appreciate the life of others it is difficult for you to develop it yourself. If you're in an environment where you are told to be happy that people in your way are dead, having compassion for those you've never met is not going to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 I was giving you more extreme cases so that you would see that the world isn't as black and white as you think and might consider other factors when looking at someone. Just because he knew what he did, doesn't mean his crime is a result of his innate cruelty. Many factors that I spoke of previously could still apply. He could still have the neural configuration that sees an opportunity for gain go through his mental processes without inhibition from a logical counterpoint. Just because his thinking is clear doesn't mean his brain is not flawed, that people don't make mistakes and can't make decisions that in hindsight seem terrible. When you are not taught to appreciate the life of others it is difficult for you to develop it yourself. If you're in an environment where you are told to be happy that people in your way are dead, having compassion for those you've never met is not going to happen. He took a gun to court and decided to kill anyone trying to stop him getting away if need be. It was premeditated. This was no spur of the moment thing. He knew what his actions meant. I'm not saying everything is black and white but I find it laughable that people try to dress this up as something it's not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) [What do you think the ideal punishment for him should be, Kav? And he didn't bring a gun with him, he took one from a policeman. It wasn't a premeditated attack. It was a spur of the moment decision. And quite frankly, I think given the circumstances, trying to escape is something a lot of people would try to do (although they probably wouldn't kill the officer). It costs an average of $23,876 to keep someone in prison for a year in the USA. He's been in prison for a total of 25 years now, a total cost of $596900. I would much rather this man be put to work than staying in there draining money from the state. Think how much good you could do with that money. Edited March 20, 2013 by Charlie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 [What do you think the ideal punishment for him should be, Kav? And he didn't bring a gun with him, he took one from a policeman. It wasn't a premeditated attack. It was a spur of the moment decision. And quite frankly, I think given the circumstances, trying to escape is something a lot of people would try to do (although they probably wouldn't kill the officer). It costs an average of $23,876 to keep someone in prison for a year in the USA. He's been in prison for a total of 25 years now, a total cost of $596900. I would much rather this man be put to work than staying in there draining money from the state. Think how much good you could do with that money. My mistake then. I'm saying his punishment fits. That he feels it was "worse than death" is fitting. I do t think its too harsh a punishment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 My mistake then. I'm saying his punishment fits. That he feels it was "worse than death" is fitting.I do t think its too harsh a punishment. So it wasn't premeditated and it was a spur of the moment thing and no one was trying to make it into something it's not? Even premeditated crime is not black and white. There's a reason that man killed, why he thought it would make his life better without concern for the life of others, why he makes decisions the way he does instead of the way you do. You don't believe his brain works in the exact same way yours does but he chose it deliberately because he wanted an officer dead? Or what if a man kills a woman's family, should the woman then in turn be allowed to kill the family of the man? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 Dunno how relevant you guys feel this will be to your arguments, but it seems like a worthwhile read. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 EDIT: Yeah that's right, this thread on punishment needed a lolcat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 So it wasn't premeditated and it was a spur of the moment thing and no one was trying to make it into something it's not? Even premeditated crime is not black and white. There's a reason that man killed, why he thought it would make his life better without concern for the life of others, why he makes decisions the way he does instead of the way you do. You don't believe his brain works in the exact same way yours does but he chose it deliberately because he wanted an officer dead? Or what if a man kills a woman's family, should the woman then in turn be allowed to kill the family of the man? What's to say you're right? He may well have completely understood what he was doing. Just because we don't know you can't say "oh but maybe" or "what if"... I'm saying, irrelevant of that, I feel his time in solitary was a just punishment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 I'm not saying 'what if', I'm saying that there's a reason he decided to do what he did and he obviously doesn't think exactly like you. You seem to only counter the points you feel you have a counter to and just ignore all others. Then you return to the same notion and just repeat your own mantra that his punishment is just. This conversation is going nowhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) I'm not saying 'what if', I'm saying that there's a reason he decided to do what he did and he obviously doesn't think exactly like you. You seem to only counter the points you feel you have a counter to and just ignore all others. Then you return to the same notion and just repeat your own mantra that his punishment is just. This conversation is going nowhere. I'm repeating that I feel his punishment is just because I feel it is just, regardless of precisely how his brain works. I believe it to function well enough for him to have known that taking life is wrong which is why I believe it's a just punishment. I don't care to try and counter anything I see as not a noteworthy point. What's your point in striking up the conversation? I was simply stating that I thought his punishment was just given what I'd read and from what I felt from that. I was asked about thing to which I replied, I'm not here to debate, I'm here to simply give my view. Edited March 20, 2013 by Kav Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 It's obvious what the two choices should be. Death by shark. or DEATH BY MONKEY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 20, 2013 Death by shark. or DEATH BY MONKEY. You're clearly biased as to which it should be. If you can't be objective, then don't post at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
