Nintendo and Microsoft in light of the PS4 reveal (Th'rip)

[Cube]

With regards to the new Killzone, there's the following couple of things to consider:

 

- From the trailer, it seems like the war from the previous games is long over. This is the start of a new war.

 

- The name. It's not "Killzone 4".

 

From that short trailer, it seems evident that the game is designed to attract a whole new audience (whereas Halo is a second trilogy and aimed at Halo fans).

[Jonnas]

obviously much about the next box is conjecture and based on rumour so far, but one thing we can is that the remaining exclusives had dried up.

 

Yes, but quantity of exclusives matter little when it comes to marketing. I mean, the Xbox had very few exclusives when compared to the Gamecube, but which console sold better, and which brand became more well known to the masses?

 

Microsoft just need one exclusive (like Halo) or a keyword to get healthy sales, no matter what kind of console it is. It could be price... Countless companies have gotten away with selling an apparently cheap product, and then charging you for its individual features.

 

That said, I don't think Microsoft's next console will be successful as an actual gaming console, since that's not the direction they seem to be taking.

[Cube]

I think @Sheikah and @Zechs Merquise are having two completely different arguments. Zachs is talking about which one is more successful overall, Sheikah is talking about which one is more successful from the point of view of gamers.

[Sheikah]

Yes, but quantity of exclusives matter little when it comes to marketing. I mean, the Xbox had very few exclusives when compared to the Gamecube, but which console sold better, and which brand became more well known to the masses?

 

Microsoft just need one exclusive (like Halo) or a keyword to get healthy sales, no matter what kind of console it is. It could be price... Countless companies have gotten away with selling an apparently cheap product, and then charging you for its individual features.

 

That said, I don't think Microsoft's next console will be successful as an actual gaming console, since that's not the direction they seem to be taking.

 

Nada, having a few really good games will get people to buy your console initially, but then what? It gathers dust since you don't buy many more games, all the while your competitor seizes the market share by a long shot. Note Sony do have the majority market share.

 

Besides, as Zech's stats show, Sony has a title that sells as well as gears. It's just Halo then. You can't seriously believe that having a library of really neat and often strongly selling exclusives (recent favourite being Ni No Kuni) is worse than having 1 game that sells really well.

[Gio001]

If Microsoft has lots of money to throw around on the next console & Sony are struggling financially why don't Microsoft start by making online free on their nextbox?

[Sheikah]

I think @Sheikah and @Zechs Merquise are having two completely different arguments. Zachs is talking about which one is more successful overall, Sheikah is talking about which one is more successful from the point of view of gamers.

 

To be honest I don't see why people argue the first point. We're gamers, we want to game. Commercial success is stuff like Kinect.

 

Also even from an overall perspective, Sony does have the majority market share.

[liger05]

If Microsoft has lots of money to throw around on the next console & Sony are struggling financially why don't Microsoft start by making online free on their nextbox?

 

Because that is giving away free money. Why make it free when people will pay. People dont mind paying for live. Free would be nice but its not as if people are going to walk away from nextbox if you have to pay for Live.

[Jonnas]

Nada, having a few really good games will get people to buy your console initially, but then what? It gathers dust since you don't buy many more games, all the while your competitor seizes the market share by a long shot. Note Sony do have the majority market share.

 

Besides, as Zech's stats show, Sony has a title that sells as well as gears. It's just Halo then. You can't seriously believe that having a library of really neat and often strongly selling exclusives (recent favourite being Ni No Kuni) is worse than having 1 game that sells really well.

 

The Xbox 360 managed to have great staying power for the simple fact that it's the console you and your friends have ("you" being the regular customer, not actually you ). Similar to the reason Windows is still standard: it's what everyone uses.

 

I never said having more exclusives is worse. Just that it's not that big an advantage when it comes to commercial success.

 

Of course, if you were talking actual quality instead of success this whole time, then this discussion is moot

 

To be honest I don't see why people argue the first point. We're gamers, we want to game. Commercial success is stuff like Kinect.

 

Also even from an overall perspective, Sony does have the majority market share.

 

It's important, when Sony's financial troubles are so deep, it affects their strategy and potential survival in this generation to come.

[Cube]

Similar to the reason Windows is still standard: it's what everyone uses.

 

Isn't Microsoft messing up that side of things? They're alienating anyone who regularly uses a PC.

[Sheikah]

The Xbox 360 managed to have great staying power for the simple fact that it's the console you and your friends have ("you" being the regular customer, not actually you ). Similar to the reason Windows is still standard: it's what everyone uses.

 

I never said having more exclusives is worse. Just that it's not that big an advantage when it comes to commercial success.

 

Of course, if you were talking actual quality instead of success this whole time, then this discussion is moot

 

 

 

It's important, when Sony's financial troubles are so deep, it affects their strategy and potential survival in this generation to come.

 

But the downside of success in the casual area means a switch in focus and effort on producing more of these games.

 

Also I think we're being a bit dramatic. The PS3 did really well and like I've been saying, market leader. Sony might not be in a good financial situation but they've got good third party support and a good console coming.

[Zechs Merquise]

Whereas a few critics actually comprise the combined consciousness of two million people.

 

The number of people on this forum is a decent sample size, plus the critics I have seen have been very favourable about the PS4.

 

So out of the hundreds of millions of people who purchased a games console last generation you mean to say the few dozen people who regularly post on this forum are a 'decent sample size'. Not top of the class in math I guess?

 

The fact of the matter is people who frequent forums and make gaming such a large part of their life as those on forums like this do only make up a small proportion of those who buy consoles.

 

The are multiple sections of the gaming market. You can't start talking about statistics (as you have done when you quoted VGChartz) and then recoil in horror when other people do the same and write off their statistics as you don't count people who buy certain games as 'real gamers'

 

Not really, if you still have to stump up £30-40 a year for online. Everyone knows you win in terms of cost with Sony by a long shot. I imagine the Xbox will be cheaper but also lower spec.

 

But that's not how many people see it. There are loads of people who buy consoles based on the price on the box. I have friends who picked up an 360 to play COD because they saw one on offer at Asda. They didn't spend hours researching the matter and comparing exclusives and additional costs like Live or Plus.

 

You're not getting it: MS have only a small handful of decently selling exclusives left relative to Sony. For MS to be as secure as Sony in the respect of exclusives their titles should be selling far more to make up for the small number. Like you've shown, they're selling the same number or less than certain Sony exclusives. That's pretty bad.

 

No, you're not getting it. I've shown that MS and Sony both have a number of first party exclusives that are selling in roughly the same numbers. Gears and Uncharted match each other. Fable has out sold LBP. Forza does well, so does GoW. They trade blows over these titles but neither really comes out on top. Sony has GT and MS has Halo. It's down to preference.

 

Essentially your argument boils down to the fact that if you take a group of self selecting gamers who prefer Sony exclusives then they will favour the PS4 - well no shit Sherlock!

 

Yes - a NEW Killzone game that shows off the system capabilities! Old Killzone games were hardly special and didn't sell much, so why use the sales for these games? You're comparing one game that people like a lot to another that people have lukewarm feelings towards. Why not draw on several PS3 exclusives that people liked a lot and pool the sales of them, and compare those sales to the pooled exclusives on the 360. Sony are less 'all eggs in one basket' so the fact they don't have a 'Halo' doesn't really matter. They get a lot of sales over many exclusives, with Uncharted even matching the 360's second best selling exclusive.

 

Exactly, it's ridiculous. That was the effect I was going for to illustrate what you're doing is silly.

 

Er... were you living in a cave when Sony used Killzone 2 to showcase what the PS3 was capable of in 2005? This is the second time Killzone has been used to showcase the capabilities of a Sony machine.

 

And if you're confused to why I'm comparing Killzone to Halo I'll make it painfully clear one last time:

 

Sony have used KZ4 to show off the capabilities of the PS4. Sony have pushed this franchise twice now as a system selling game. Microsoft will use Halo to show off the capabilities of the 720. They use Halo to trumpet the capabilities of their machine. I am comparing the titles because the respective companies we are discussing use those titles to push their hardware and show off its capabilities in their reveals. Hence it is a valid comparrison.

 

If Sony had used GT6 to show off the PS4 and MS used Banjo Nuts and Blots Part 2 to show off the 720 then I'd be comparing those titles and I would be saying that MS had made a huge mistake show casing a game no one gives to shits for at their reveal event!!!

 

If Sony had shown other established franchises, I would obviously cite them. The point is, Sony used a franchise that doesn't have such a wide appeal to showcase the PS4. If MS use COD and Halo, the point is that will have a bigger and more positive effect because more people care about them. I can't see why that is so difficult to understand?

 

(Small niggle: always post your sources alongside any stats).

 

Would you like me to post the full lists of all PS3 first party exclsuives and all 360 first party exclsuives with the total numbers? I will if you wish, it would just have taken a long time to type it out - ah fuck it:

 

PS3:

 

Gran Turismo 5 8.74

Uncharted 2: Among Thieves 6.1

Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception 5.67

LittleBigPlanet 5.14

Uncharted: Drake's Fortune 4.54

God of War III 4.52

Gran Turismo 5 Prologue 4.12

Resistance: Fall of Man 4.12

MotorStorm 3.76

Sports Champions 3.47

Killzone 2 2.88

LittleBigPlanet 2 2.85

inFAMOUS 2.56

God of War Collection 2.52

Killzone 3 2.42

Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction 2.41

Resistance 2 2.35

Heavy Rain 2.28

Ratchet & Clank Future: A Crack in Time 1.68

Demon's Souls 1.67

Heavenly Sword 1.57

inFAMOUS 2 1.53

MAG: Massive Action Game 1.27

Resistance 3 1.27

MotorStorm: Pacific Rift 1.24

SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Confrontation 1.2

Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds 1.08

Warhawk 1.02

EyePet 1

ModNation Racers 1

Ratchet & Clank: All 4 One 0.98

SingStar 0.98

The ICO & Shadow of the Colossus Collection 0.9

MLB 12: The Show 0.86

White Knight Chronicles: International Edition 0.85

SingStar Abba 0.83

Buzz! Quiz TV 0.81

Buzz! Quiz World 0.81

Ghostbusters: The Video Game 0.76

SOCOM 4: U.S. Navy SEALs 0.76

SingStar Vol. 2 0.73

Genji: Days of the Blade 0.72

MLB 09: The Show 0.69

MLB 08: The Show 0.68

MLB 10: The Show 0.68

Formula 1: Championship Edition 0.61

Twisted Metal 0.6

Ratchet & Clank: Quest for Booty 0.57

White Knight Chronicles II 0.54

MLB 11: The Show 0.51

Start the Party! 0.51

The Sly Collection 0.48

The Fight: Lights Out 0.48

The Jak and Daxter Collection 0.47

Lair 0.47

PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale 0.44

SingStar Dance 0.43

LittleBigPlanet Karting 0.43

God of War: Origins Collection 0.4

Book of Spells 0.37

Bleach: Soul Resurreccion 0.36

DanceStar Party 0.35

MotorStorm: Apocalypse 0.35

SingStar Queen 0.34

The Eye of Judgment 0.33

MLB 07: The Show 0.3

Ratchet & Clank Collection 0.3

Buzz! The Ultimate Music Quiz 0.29

The Shoot 0.27

God of War Saga 0.27

NBA 07 0.26

Folklore 0.26

Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational 0.25

SingStar Take That 0.25

Tokyo Jungle 0.25

Siren: Blood Curse 0.24

Starhawk 0.21

Afrika 0.2

Sorcery 0.17

Medieval Moves: Deadmund's Quest 0.17

TV Superstars 0.17

Move Fitness 0.17

Kung Fu Rider 0.16

Buzz! Brain of the UK 0.16

SingStar Motown 0.14

NBA 09: The Inside 0.13

NBA 08 0.13

SingStar Pop Edition 0.12

PlayStation Move Heroes 0.12

The God of War Trilogy 0.12

Carnival Island 0.12

SingStar: Back to the 80s 0.12

EyePet & Friends 0.1

SingStar Latino 0.1

Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time 0.1

High Velocity Bowling 0.1

Ratchet & Clank: Full Frontal Assault 0.1

Beat Sketch! 0.08

Everybody Dance 0.08

Boku no Natsuyasumi 3: Hokkoku Hen: Chiisana Boku no Dai Sougen​ 0.08

ESA Game Pack 0.08

ICO 0.06

SingStar Guitar 0.06

Heavy Rain Director's Cut 0.06

SingStar Vol. 3 0.05

Start the Party! Save the World 0.05

Heavy Rain: Move Edition 0.04

SingStar: Made In Germany 0.04

Shadow of the Colossus 0.04

Aquanaut's Holiday: Kakusareta Kiroku 0.04

After Hours Athletes 0.03

WipEout HD Fury 0.03

The Last Guy 0.03

SingStar Mallorca Party 0.02

EyeCreate 0.02

Ape Escape 0.02

SingStar Apres-Ski Party 2 0.02

Toro to Morimori 0.01

Resistance Dual Pack 0.01

SingStar Chartbreaker 0.01

SingStar Fussballhits 0.01

Derby Time Online 0.01

MotorStorm Complete 0.01

 

360:

 

Kinect Adventures! 19.81

Halo 3 11.73

Halo: Reach 9.37

Halo 4 7.76

Gears of War 2 6.59

Halo 3: ODST 6.13

Gears of War 5.98

Gears of War 3 5.76

Kinect Sports 5.51

Forza Motorsport 3 5.34

Fable III 4.9

Fable II 4.1

Forza Motorsport 2 3.99

Forza Motorsport 4 3.87

Dance Central 2.95

Mass Effect 2.74

Halo Wars 2.29

Halo: Combat Evolved Anniversary 2.12

Kinect Sports: Season Two 2.11

Kinect: Disneyland Adventures 2.1

PGR4 - Project Gotham Racing 4 1.97

Dance Central 2 1.88

Crackdown 1.69

Viva Pinata 1.57

Kinectimals 1.37

Kinect Star Wars 1.27

Kinect Joy Ride 1.24

Alan Wake 1.19

Forza: Horizon 1.19

Crackdown 2 1.05

Blue Dragon 0.86

Lost Odyssey 0.84

Too Human 0.75

Perfect Dark Zero 0.74

Lips 0.74

Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts 0.72

Scene It? Box Office Smash 0.61

PGR3 - Project Gotham Racing 3 0.56

Dance Central 3 0.52

You're in the Movies 0.48

Lips: Number One Hits 0.48

Scene It? Lights Camera Action 0.47

Shadowrun 0.43

Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise 0.42

Kingdom Under Fire: Circle of Doom 0.33

The Gunstringer 0.32

Kameo: Elements of Power 0.31

Kinectimals: Now with Bears! 0.27

N3: Ninety-Nine Nights 0.27

Viva Pinata: Party Animals 0.2

Kinect Rush: A Disney Pixar Adventure 0.19

Vampire Rain 0.19

Fable: The Journey 0.15

N3 II: Ninety-Nine Nights 0.14

Lips: Party Classics 0.14

Fuzion Frenzy 2 0.14

Project Sylpheed: Arc of Deception 0.12

Lips: I Love The 80s 0.11

Xbox Live Arcade Unplugged Volume 1 0.06

Lips: Deutsche Partyknaller 0.03

Forza Motorsport 3: Ultimate Edition 0.03

Triple Pack: Xbox Live Arcade Compilation 0.02

 

(So then take Kinect out of the equation as that means little when gauging how the console fares for gamers like you and I. Screw the shareholder Zechs, we don't have a vested interest in these companies. We just want good games.

 

Don't be idiotic. I didn't take Move titles out of the Sony list, so why should I take Kinect out of the 360 list??? Again, you're distorting the argument. You stated PS3 first party titles had outsold the 360 ones, they haven't. Don't start doctoring the results because they don't fit your hypothesis.

 

This is nothing about being a share holder or having vested interests. You're the one stating that Sony are in some wonderfully better position than MS. When clearly they're not.

 

Sony exclusives haven't sold better than MS exclusives. Sony and MS have sold a very similar number of consoles and MS is still to show their hand with regards to the 720.

 

To be honest I don't see why people argue the first point. We're gamers, we want to game. Commercial success is stuff like Kinect.

 

Also even from an overall perspective, Sony does have the majority market share.

 

Sony doesn't have the majority market share. Sony sold more consoles than MS last year. As for market share, they both have a near identitical number of consoles sold in total. So their market share would be equal. MS sold more early on, PS3 has had more success later in its life.

 

You are making the mistake of twisting arguments, omitting figures and creating your own definition of a 'gamer' to win an argument, it's silly.

 

Kids who buy Kinect, teens who play just COD and FIFA, girls who play Just Dance, mums who play Wii Fit, PC gamers who play LOL and all manner of people who play games are 'gamers'. When you see sales figures you can't break down exactly who purchased what.

 

The fact is, when these systems do come out, the big differences in sales between them are much more likely to come down to price and advertising than anything else.

 

But gamers who do choose one system over the other based on exclusives have a tough choice either way. As I've shown, neither the PS3 or the 360 lacked good quality exclusive games that sold well.

 

I can't see how anyone would say otherwise!

Edited February 25, 2013 by Zechs Merquise

[Magnus]

I think the most hilarious thing about this discussion is that Zechs thinks that he can prove anything using VGChartz stats.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Magnus

[Sheikah]

I think the most hilarious thing about this discussion is hat Zechs thinks that he can prove anything using VGChartz stats.

 

Ironically I posted a chart from VG saying that said Sony have the majority market share for 2012, but he chose to ignore that. :p

 

They should really bottle whatever powers Zechs - 'the Zechs effect'. They could use it as a weapon to deteriorate brain function. Aight Zechs, let's trim the quote chain here:

 

- There are tens of people on this forum. That's a sample. Yes, a sample. The size doesn't have to be huge to yield important information. How do I know? I sample all the time during my PhD. We can get away with making valid conclusions based on less than 7 samples per any one group in scientific publications. So 'not the smartest in class?' Fuck you.

 

- If anything all you've shown is that Sony use Killzone in tech demos often, it doesn't mean it's a game for direct compare with Halo. It doesn't mean they consider it anywhere near as valuable as Microsoft do Halo. It's just you drawing comparisons where there are none.

 

- Typing out a long list of exclusives is completely pointless. By that merit the Wii could even look like it excelled itself in third party support. Let's just put this one down - sheer quantity is never a way to prove anything. As I say, from personal experience it seems that a lot of 360 owners aren't happy with the third party offering on the 360, at least not within the last few years and not compared to the PS3.

 

And lastly:

 

Sony doesn't have the majority market share. Sony sold more consoles than MS last year. As for market share, they both have a near identitical number of consoles sold in total. So their market share would be equal. MS sold more early on, PS3 has had more success later in its life.

 

Ooh you are talking absolute shiiit. You really must be proud.

 

Number of consoles out there does not equal market share. If that was true then the NES has still got one hell of a market share! Think about the drivel you are saying! Even VG Chartz, your muse, lists the PS3 market share for 2012 to be 45.1% and the 360 at 32.7%.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Sheikah

[Daft]

Gears of War: 5.98 million

Gears of War 2: 6.59 million

Gears of War 3: 5.76 million

 

Whilst the third has sold less than the second, I wouldn't call it a series in decline, it's quite clearly still selling strongly. And if Gears hasn't been that popular then how would you describe Uncharted:

 

Uncharted: 4.54 million

Uncharted 2: 6.10 million

Uncharted 3: 5.67 million

 

Now whilst I'm sure you wouldn't say Uncharted 'hasn't been that popular for a while now', I'd be interested to see how you would describe it bearing in mind it has followed the same sales pattern as Gears yet failed to outsell it?

 

Fable has consistently sold better with each main iteration - excluding The Journey which bombed. But the main series sold like this: 2.66, 4.10, 4.90 (million). So it's hardly a series that's unpopular. What's more, it's sold far more than the Killzone series which is a key focus of the PS4 reveal!

 

The only MS series that has declined dramatically is the Forza series. Forza Hoizon has only sold 1.19 million compared to the following numbers: Forza 2: 3.99, Forza 3: 5.34, Forza 4: 3.87 (millions). Still, I would hardly say Forza is in any toruble, they've just released too many on one system.

 

As for Halo, it continues to sell very well and put most Sony franchises to shame, with the exception of GT.

 

So in summary it is rather factually inaccurate to try and claim MS exclusives are in trouble/don't sell/Sony ones are doing better.

 

...This is so awkward because I get briefed by Xbox almost daily and I've written material for all those games. They consider Gears of War as a niche title, don't expect Judgement to set the world on fire. Also, it's not insignificant that The Journey bombed and as @Sheikah said, that comparison with Killzone is...well, it's bizarre. Likewise comparing GoW and Uncharted doesn't really work since they were released under different circumstances - Microsoft pushed GoW from the off and EPIC were easily much more established than Naughty Dog whereas Sony only threw considerable weight behind Uncharted for its second iteration. Tbh, I'm surprised Uncharted sells as well as it does - wouldn't be surprised if the reason the first one sold that much due to it being a launch game followed by a massive game drought and then being the first game to get trophies...and then picking up sales from the promotion of the second game...actually, I wouldn't be suprised if a crap load of those sales were from bundles, that where I got Uncharted from. So yeah, completely different contexts and I wouldn't say Uncharted was massively popular. I think it's fucking brilliant but I would never expect it to reach the heights of Halo and Gears...I mean, those two games predominantly focus on multiplayer, too.

 

It's one thing citing facts and a whole other thing knowing what you're talking about.

 

Also, I never mentioned Halo. I think it's a fantastic series. I hope it keeps selling well.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Daft

[Zechs Merquise]

Ultimately, if people are such blinded Sony fanboys that they can't accept that two FPS titles, both used to show off a systems capabilities and both trumpetted by their respect platforms as system selling games would be compared then it shows the true level of delusion present in this thread.

 

Also, if you're going to argue with people, get your facts straight:

 

To hold a majority you need 50%+, the PS3 had 43% of console sales last year, that's not a majority and it also doesn't mean they have 43% market share, market share is calculated by seeing the total nuber of consoles owned. It just means that's the percentage of consoles they sold last year.

 

For the last gen PS3/360 sales stand around 75 million each, Wii sales stand around 100 million. Hence out of the 250 million consoles sold that generation Sony has around a 30% market share, the same as MS, with the Wii having a 40% market share.

 

Secondly, when talking about figures in the hundreds of millions, a statistically meaningful figure would be far higher than 'dozens'.

 

Finally, @Sheikah don't dare now say I shoudl list games. You claimed MS had virtually no exclusive games and those games didn't perform as well as Sony exclusives. I have proved otherwise using the source you originally chose to cite.

[Daft]

Fanboy? I don't get it. I'm not claiming Killzone will sell the PS4, Halo is much better at selling Xbox (personally, and I've said this so many times now, I do not care about sales...beyond what I need to be aware for for work). However, you are an idiot if you can't understand that comparing them is nothing but armchair strategising. Your missing the whole spectrum of factors.

 

You do this all the time though, you make these arguments based on infantile ideas and then when challenged you never back them up. I'm still waiting to a real response to this post.

[Sheikah]

That's some quality bullshit in that link Daft, thanks for the read. :p

 

In the words of Kryten... Smeeee heeeeeeaaaa

[bob]

Well this thread went sour rather quickly.

[dazzybee]

Been a fun read, what's brilliant is you can see so clearly the people who have their favourites and twist everything in that direction and the people who are genuinely neutral and open minded about the whole situation. There is one person in particular who's agenda is so painfully obvious...

 

Fun though. I can't wait for Xbox to reveal what they have to offer and then all three going utterly mental at e3!

[Zechs Merquise]

http://www.videogamer.com/news/sonys_frustration_over_ps4_hardware_cynicism.html

 

The head of PlayStation UK has expressed his opinion over the backlash Sony received following its decision not to show PlayStation 4 hardware during its reveal last week, telling VideoGamer.com that "it's much more important to see what the damn thing does" than showing "the shiniest piece of black, green or purple plastic".

 

But perceptions of the PS4 were soooo positive from that reveal. As I said before, it was a lukewarm reception. Lukewarm isn't bad, but it's hardly glowing either.

 

This just adds weight to what I've already said - neither Sony or MS have this 'in the bag'. But from the reception Sony received from their reveal conference, MS can learn lessons that may give them an advantage and create a more positive buzz for the 720.

[Hero-of-Time]

This just adds weight to what I've already said - neither Sony or MS have this 'in the bag'. But from the reception Sony received from their reveal conference, MS can learn lessons that may give them an advantage and create a more positive buzz for the 720.

 

I think the only lesson Microsoft can learn and do anything about is show the console. The specs will be too far along to change now and if the games aren't ready to show then they are not just magically going to show up.

 

I think the biggest factor is whether the whole 2nd hand games/always online features turn out to be true. If they are true then Microsoft hasn't got a hope in hell.

 

Here's an opinion piece on whether the tides have turned in terms of Sony vs Microsoft.

 

http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/25/ps4-will-the-next-gen-start-when-microsoft-says-it-does/

[Lens of Truth]

I think the only lesson Microsoft can learn and do anything about is show the console. The specs will be too far along to change now and if the games aren't ready to show then they are not just magically going to show up.

 

I think the biggest factor is whether the whole 2nd hand games/always online features turn out to be true. If they are true then Microsoft hasn't got a hope in hell.

 

Here's an opinion piece on whether the tides have turned in terms of Sony vs Microsoft.

 

http://www.vg247.com/2013/02/25/ps4-will-the-next-gen-start-when-microsoft-says-it-does/

So that article speaks of Microsoft being puerile and then goes on to say:

PS4 is real. Microsoft can claim irrelevance, but the next generation has started. Sony said so. And Microsoft did not.

And pleeease, everyone should face the reality, whether they like it or not, that new generation stated with a fab little game called NintendoLand

[Hero-of-Time]

And pleeease, everyone should face the reality, whether they like it or not, that new generation stated with a fab little game called NintendoLand

 

The media doesn't factor Nintendo in to such things.

[Retro_Link]

Honestly why anyone should care about seeing the PS4 form factor 9 months from launch I don't know; it's only going to change. It's something that can easily wait until E3.

[Fused King]

I don't understand why the reaction has been 'lukewarm'.

 

The things Sony talked about, their console being developer-centric, self-publishing for indies and the social aspects all sounded incredible to me, and I'm more or less a NINTENDO fanboy for crying out loud!?!