Gameplay Vs Convenience

[Cube]

Like the old "graphics vs gameplay" arguments, it seems the Wii U (and to a certain extent, the Vita, due to PS3 ports and cross-platform purchases/saves) has brought a different argument into the equation: gameplay vs convenience.

 

I'm, of course, talking about off-TV play using just the GamePad and utilising the second screen and touch screen to enhance the gameplay.

 

When the touch screen was initially announced, I was quite excited about the uses of the screen. Admittedly, a lot were pretty much "stuff already in games but require you to pause it" - inventory, hacking minigames, using in-game computers and gadgets, a map you can manipulate as you explore. Some stuff like this was done in ZombiU.

 

Even the basic inventory could have bigger gameplay effects. For example: Zelda. With just the addition of the inventory on the screen, I think puzzles could be much more complex, involving having to use your entire arsenal of items without having to constantly interrupt gameplay to change item.

 

And then there's the pointer, for things like scanning without interrupting gameplay, helping with immersion and making some sections more tense. Or perhaps a section of a game where the power goes out, and the IR sensor is the GamePad, and you have to use that to navigate.

 

I think there's a lot of potential to explore with the GamePad-and-TV setup.

 

For off-TV play, I personally have zero use for it and it seems to be doing the job that a handheld console should be doing, and if it was that much of an issue that you can't access the TV, you could always get a cheap, small TV. If focus stays on this mode, it will start to feel like the GamePad may as well be an optional extra and not bundled with the console.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I'd much prefer to have the Gamepad affect the gameplay in a unique way, rather than just used as an additional screen for off-tv play. There will be games that will show the benefits of both, but the ability to use the touch screen and maybe use the screen as a "window" (like scanning a boss in Metroid Prime) is the exciting thing about it.

 

Gameplay should always come first. Convenience is important, but as long as the "comfortability" isn't being compromised by playing with unique features, it shouldn't really be an issue. The off-tv play sounds good, but to me it's not really a massive feature. It reminds me of DVD extras. It's there, but I doubt I'd ever really need it.

[Kav]

Like the old "graphics vs gameplay" arguments, it seems the Wii U (and to a certain extent, the Vita, due to PS3 ports and cross-platform purchases/saves) has brought a different argument into the equation: gameplay vs convenience.

 

I'm, of course, talking about off-TV play using just the GamePad and utilising the second screen and touch screen to enhance the gameplay.

 

When the touch screen was initially announced, I was quite excited about the uses of the screen. Admittedly, a lot were pretty much "stuff already in games but require you to pause it" - inventory, hacking minigames, using in-game computers and gadgets, a map you can manipulate as you explore. Some stuff like this was done in ZombiU.

 

Even the basic inventory could have bigger gameplay effects. For example: Zelda. With just the addition of the inventory on the screen, I think puzzles could be much more complex, involving having to use your entire arsenal of items without having to constantly interrupt gameplay to change item.

 

And then there's the pointer, for things like scanning without interrupting gameplay, helping with immersion and making some sections more tense. Or perhaps a section of a game where the power goes out, and the IR sensor is the GamePad, and you have to use that to navigate.

 

I think there's a lot of potential to explore with the GamePad-and-TV setup.

 

For off-TV play, I personally have zero use for it and it seems to be doing the job that a handheld console should be doing, and if it was that much of an issue that you can't access the TV, you could always get a cheap, small TV. If focus stays on this mode, it will start to feel like the GamePad may as well be an optional extra and not bundled with the console.

 

I love how ZombiU adds to the tension by using the Gamepad without pausing the game and I can't wait to see what else other games come up with... but I also think that off-screen play is amazing and I use this more than any other feature currently. I don't want to game on a small cheap tv, if I'm using a small screen I'll use one that's close to me and I'll be sitting comfortably... the Gamepad is absolutely perfect for this! Plus it allows my flatmate to watch his programs too... even if he gets pissed off that I'm talking with you guys whilst he's trying to watch something.

[Wii]

I think they'll use the Wii remote and nunchuk combination for Zelda in conjunction with the gamepad. They did say that this was the case before. I think it'll be a challenge to make it all work together seamlessly and effortlessly.

[Dcubed]

It depends on the game really. If it's a remake, a port or an exclusive game that really has no need for asymmetric play or motion controls and hasn't been designed around them (like say, a Rhythm Heaven game or a traditional Punchout Game), then I would absolutely expect Off-TV Play and I would condemn any game like this that eschews the option (I'm looking at you The Cave!).

 

Otherwise, if it is being designed around asymmetric play, Wii Remote/ Remote & Chuck controls or a combination of Wii Remotes/Gamepad/Balance Board controls, I don't want to see the game being compromised to allow for Off-TV play.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Dcubed

[Retro_Link]

The gaming industry needs new gameplay experiences in order to survive. In order for people to buy games consoles they need to provide reasons for people to not just game on their iPhone and iPad, which is where the current trend is heading.

 

For this reason bundling in the likes of Netflix, WiiTV etc... will never be an answer, they are convience, as is off screen play.

 

Gameplay is what matters, and why if Nintendo are to succeed with the Wii U they need to hurry up and get examples out there of games that can only be played on the Wii U.

 

At the moment the console only has one true example of this in Zombi U, and certain games within Nintendo Land.

What I was really getting at in the Mario Universe thread was Nintendo have to get off their asses and sell the unique features of the console through their games.

[dazzybee]

NIntendoland shows off the screen better than Zombi U. It actually changes the gameplay. Even mario does to an extent. Zombi U is more about atmosphere than gameplay. Both amazing examples.

 

For me, I'm just realistic, not every game will be an amazing use of the second screen, off tv play is also brilliant, I don't understand why the separation. Games like FIFA which use the second screen really well, also has off screen play, it does both!

 

I've downloaded Zen Pinball; challnges, the score, little screens of detailed sections show up on the screen, its brilliant, not essential, but neccessary. Pinball doesn't need some revolutionary use of the second screen. Off tv play on zen pinball is better than anything they could come up with to change the way the game has played. Nintendoland it's essential (though some of th egames could still be done off tv - donkey kong, fzero, zelda archery etc).

 

Why not just see both as amazing weapons in the wii u armoury!??

[Dcubed]

The gaming industry needs new gameplay experiences in order to survive. In order for people to buy games consoles they need to provide reasons for people to not just game on their iPhone and iPad, which is where the current trend is heading.

 

For this reason bundling in the likes of Netflix, WiiTV etc... will never be an answer, they are convience, as is off screen play.

 

Gameplay is what matters, and why if Nintendo are to succeed with the Wii U they need to hurry up and get examples out there of games that can only be played on the Wii U.

 

At the moment the console only has one true example of this in Zombi U, and certain games within Nintendo Land.

What I was really getting at in the Mario Universe thread was Nintendo have to get off their asses and sell the unique features of the console through their games.

 

Don't forget The Wonderful 101 and Game & Wario as well! Wii Party U will almost certainly join the list as well...

[Zell]

I'd obviously love to see unique and innovative uses of the gamepad, but that doesn't mean that developers should shoehorn in touch screen stuff for the sake of it, like motion controls were seemingly shoehorned into the majority of Wii games. For multi-platform games where the gaming experience isn't fundamentally designed around the gamepad, I'd much rather have the option of off-tv play than have touch screen features slapped on that ultimately add no value.

[Fused King]

I'm hoping that some day a game will come along in which you place your WiiU GamePad behind you, which basically places you inside the game.

[Retro_Link]

Don't forget The Wonderful 101 and Game & Wario as well! Wii Party U will almost certainly join the list as well...

Ah yeah that's true.

 

But the way I'm kind of looking at it is The Wonderful 101 could technically have been done with Pikmin 1 & 2 like controls I might imagine, and Game & Wario has been done successfully on every handheld and home console to date.

 

What the Wii U really needs is Nintendo to use what they've learnt from developing the console to create new IP's, that's what new console generations have always provided a great opportunity for! They help create the buzz and excitement!

[Fused King]

What the Wii U really needs is Nintendo to use what they've learnt from developing the console to create new IP's, that's what new console generations have always provided a great opportunity for! They help create the buzz and excitement!

 

So basically, Miyamoto's new IP will either make or break the console, perhaps even literally

[Dcubed]

Ah yeah that's true.

 

But the way I'm kind of looking at it is The Wonderful 101 could technically have been done with Pikmin 1 & 2 like controls I might imagine, and Game & Wario has been done successfully on every handheld and home console to date.

 

What the Wii U really needs is Nintendo to use what they've learnt from developing the console to create new IP's, that's what new console generations have always provided a great opportunity for! They help create the buzz and excitement!

 

Have you actually seen Game & Wario? It's nothing like the Wario Ware games. All of the games utilise the two screens for asymmetric play (though it does include a mode where you play Microgames on the Gamepad under your bed covers, while you have to watch out on the TV for your mum checking if you're sleeping!)

 

The Wonderful 101 also has plenty of parts in the game where you go inside buildings and the Gamepad display changes to show what's inside - Four Swords Adventures style! (while the TV shows your normal point of view)

[Grazza]

If Nintendo genuinely thinks that using a 2nd screen is the way forward to improve gaming, then the games should do so. I'm just not convinced that is actually the case.

 

We have to be realistic. The improvement of games isn't always the reason these "big" features make their way into consoles. Analogue sticks, rumble and analogue triggers, yes, but not others. With motion control, Nintendo saw an opportunity to be unique - not necessarily better, just different. They went for it, and it was a success, but that doesn't mean motion controls were the way forward. Many at Nintendo were apparently against the idea, but they went for it and it was a business success for them.

 

So as I say, if this "2nd screen" thing is genuinely the innovation that will improve gaming, great. But if it turns out to have been just another attempt to distinguish themselves from the competition, and it doesn't continue for more than one generation, we could be left with a collection of great games - Marios, Metroids, Zeldas - that don't work with future consoles.

[Retro_Link]

Have you actually seen Game & Wario? It's nothing like the Wario Ware games. All of the games utilise the two screens for asymmetric play (though it does include a mode where you play Microgames on the Gamepad under your bed covers, while you have to watch out on the TV for your mum checking if you're sleeping!)

 

The Wonderful 101 also has plenty of parts in the game where you go inside buildings and the Gamepad display changes to show what's inside - Four Swords Adventures style! (while the TV shows your normal point of view)

Maybe Game & Wario does have some novel ideas then, but whilst The Wonderful 101 looks amazing, features like being inside buildings being on the Gamepad screen is just something simply making use of that screen, not a use that shows off how great gaming on the Wii U can be.

[nekunando]

The Wonderful 101 looks amazing, features like being inside buildings being on the Gamepad screen is just something simply making use of that screen, not a use that shows off how great gaming on the Wii U can be.

 

While I'm not yet convinced that The Wonderful 101 looks anything more than OK, I do agree with your point about the use of the screen in that way not exactly being an exciting selling point of the Wii U. If anything, I find that looking down at the screen after focusing on the TV for a while makes the gamepad's screen seem a little dull and lacking sharpness

[Kagato]

Ive got to be honest, i love the off tv play as the WiiU is in the living room and without it i wouldnt be able to play the WiiU until late at night which would be fine but thats usually my mmo time. There are games i insist on playing on the TV though, Assassins Creed III for example uses 3d which i am enjoying though it does render the controller screen fairly redudant, i would love to see more utilisation of the controller screen but then id be playing the games less so throws up a bit of a dilema for me.

[Rummy]

I second the sentiments on wanting the second screen for added functionality rather than off-TV play; but if it was me 10-20 years ago as a kid then the idea of off-TV play would probably have made my entire world. The question is...which market do they stretch for? Really, the off-TV play isn't that needed/a broken thing - games already exist and people will still buy them. For people like us though focus on the convinience will most likely make us 'meh' about the lack of functionality and lose them sales. As Flink said, gameplay should always come first.

 

(it's a bit sad, but I really think of Nintendo in terms of appeal, sales, staying alive etc more now than whether or not their stuff is any good...)

[V. Amoleo]

For me it's a tricky question. I really like being able to play Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed on the gamepad while watching sports/music on the TV but I wouldn't dream of doing it for a game like ZombiU (if it had that as an option).

 

So basically I want to play engaging single player games on the TV while multiplayer and 'casual' single player games have the option to play on the Gamepad.

 

For single player games having the option to play off-screen:

• If they're having to force in Gamepad functionality, it'd probably be best to have the option to play off screen. Even though I wouldn't personally use it.
  
• If they're actually adding to the one way the game is experienced, then don't have the option to play off screen.
  

 

On a side note, why has this thread been moved to here? It's about Wii U games making use of the gamepad for new features or just for mirroring the TV screen.