darkjak

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Wii U / Switch

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It's pretty clear to me that this game was rushed out the door before history and things like that were added. It's part of the reason I think the sequel could be incredible.

 

They made a complete experience, but didn't have the time or budget to fill it to the brim.

 

I think this is really apparent in certain parts of the map that go nowhere. Such as the plains in the far north. Or yesterday, I saw a spot on the map and I'm still looking for the last Great Fairy. I thought she might be there. If you want to check this place out, it's called Tobio's Hollow.

 

The area looks like something should be there, but what do you get instead, some balloons to pop for a Korok seed.

 

There's basically nothing important to do in Faron. There's a village in the south east that has zero purpose. Most of the houses have nothing to interact with at all. People have quests with rewards that don't match the required effort.

 

I feel like the world was crafted to contain many things that were cut. Many of the ruins were probably originally huts with some character or lore inside them. Many empty paths and cliffsides probably had encounters or puzzles. The dungeons probably had more varieties of enemies planned. I really feel like there's a lot of evidence that this is the case. Unfortunately, like the Switch itself, they had a deadline to hit and did their absolute best.

 

To clarify, I absolutely adore this game but I've definitely had this slight niggling feeling more than once.

Edited by Shorty

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To clarify, I absolutely adore this game but I've definitely had this slight niggling feeling more than once.

 

It's only really ever in the back of my mind. It's a genuinely remarkable game but I think it's a fault worth bringing up.

 

 

I don't see at what point I ever tried to downplay or change your criticism of the story? You made a comment about the name of the series, and I made a comment about the naming of series. You joke, I joke, ya?

 

I was trying to steer the discussion back on topic.

 

You can have a LOL if you really need it.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

Edited by Daft

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I was trying to steer the discussion back on topic.

 

You can have a LOL if you really need it.

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

But it was on topic? :/

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Well, I'd say that the finality of Final Fantasy games are fairly well justified; they're high-fantasy games with limited runs. Every 'run' has wholly unique characters and worlds (as far as I'm aware – I've only played FFXV).

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It's pretty clear to me that this game was rushed out the door before history and things like that were added. It's part of the reason I think the sequel could be incredible.

 

They made a complete experience, but didn't have the time or budget to fill it to the brim.

 

I think this is really apparent in certain parts of the map that go nowhere. Such as the plains in the far north. Or yesterday, I saw a spot on the map and I'm still looking for the last Great Fairy. I thought she might be there. If you want to check this place out, it's called Tobio's Hollow.

 

The area looks like something should be there, but what do you get instead, some balloons to pop for a Korok seed.

 

There's basically nothing important to do in Faron. There's a village in the south east that has zero purpose. Most of the houses have nothing to interact with at all. People have quests with rewards that don't match the required effort.

 

I feel like the world was crafted to contain many things that were cut. Many of the ruins were probably originally huts with some character or lore inside them. Many empty paths and cliffsides probably had encounters or puzzles. The dungeons probably had more varieties of enemies planned. I really feel like there's a lot of evidence that this is the case. Unfortunately, like the Switch itself, they had a deadline to hit and did their absolute best.

 

To clarify, I absolutely adore this game but I've definitely had this slight niggling feeling more than once.

 

I wonder if the DLC campaign might fill in a few blank spots. Definitely not condoning being charged a second time for content that potentially should have been in the initial release, but it's certainly a possibility.

 

Speaking of the DLC, whenever I get depressed that this game will have to end at some point, it's exciting to know more content is on the way.

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Incidentally, audio logs are possibly one of the worst and most unimaginative ways to tell a story ever conceived. Oh right so you had something you wanted to say so you recorded it then left the recorder on the floor. Cool.

 

It works better than having a magic phone that can somehow figure out a load of information (including historical facts) on "unknown" and mythical creatures just by taking a photo of it.

 

Not that I mind it, but audio logs work better in-universe.

 

Incidentally, I would have loved a "locations" section for the compendium, taking photos of interesting buildings/ruins and getting a history there.

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It works better than having a magic phone that can somehow figure out a load of information (including historical facts) on "unknown" and mythical creatures just by taking a photo of it.

 

Not that I mind it, but audio logs work better in-universe.

 

Which is more fun though? Which to be fair is one of the main purposes of a video game.

 

Incidentally, I would have loved a "locations" section for the compendium, taking photos of interesting buildings/ruins and getting a history there.

 

That would be cool. I wonder what the 'new map feature' of the DLC will be. I really hope it's a way of tracking exactly where you've been, so you can visit the unexplored parts.

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It works better than having a magic phone that can somehow figure out a load of information (including historical facts) on "unknown" and mythical creatures just by taking a photo of it.

 

I think audio logs are lazy, overdone across many games and quite jarring. People don't tend to talk to themselves very much so it's weird to have a story projected to you this way. I also remember games like BioShock where it was annoying to try and listen to them while doing other things.

 

As for the point about it being better than a "magic phone", I disagree. :heh: The Sheikah developed it, who basically knew (and had probably archived) everything, so it essentially seems to function as a Pokedex, recalling information.

 

I'd even go as far to say it's one of the least magical things going in Zelda. My phone can take photos and I can use it to find out maps and information I don't know. I have the Amazon app which will look up the identity of anything I snap. Just an amusing parallel between this and reality I noticed.

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I think Im ok with audio logs when they are used sparingly. Mass Effect games I thought were OK because they were usually just small bits of information padding out the universe rather than important information.

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It just feels like Nintendo threw everything that prototyped quite well into a box and made sure nothing was especially broken. It's unfocused.

 

I think that's very true.

 

Anyway, last night I joined the club of those who have completed the game (dungeons + memories + final boss). My thoughts are somewhere between those who loved it, and those who were less keen. My instinct keeps coming to 9/10.

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I saw a video putting the fanboy battle between Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild and Horizon: Zero Dawn to rest once and for all, and because that video is available for Nintendo and consumers to see, which could influence their flow of throught, I couldn't leave it unchallenged so I've suited-up to contend with that YouTubers opinion.

 

I actually replied to him in email (as conversing mano emano with the source is how you potentially use them as a conduit to spread your own influence!) so I'll generally paste my message to him here so that I dont need to retype it all from scratch.

 

He was basically scoring each game based on graphics, gameplay, story plot, openworld features, framerate, combat, physics and overall.

 

But just to quickly put it out there, I'm a Nintendo fan, I personally own only Nintendo consoles as games on those consoles appeal to me (but not that they've been done the best, mainly since the Wii days in my opinion, that's why I skipped the 3DS, Wii u and waiting to see about the Switch!). But I have a big family so since I was knee-height I had the adventurous privilege of gaming on the Atari, NES, SNES, SEGA Megadrive, Gameboy (all of the Gameboys boi!), NeoGeo, PS1, N64, Sega Saturn, PS2, Gamecube, DreamCast, XBOX, PS3, Wii, 360 and the XB1. My siblings has grown and dispersed, so I dont have instant access to all of those consoles nor new ones such as PS4 haha.

Personally I'm not really too into the handhelds, because life is diverse and beautiful and I think that home consoles provide a reasonable amount of hours for gaming. When I'm outside, I'm immersed in the environment like I'm the star character playing the game of real life haha. So.... the portability of the Switch is greatly appealing (to play while crashing at someone's home or during prolonged commutes or during extensive calm moments in a park or what have you)! Although it would be appreciated if 3DS games also were to be playable on the Switch. So basically, although I 'prefer' Nintendo games, I still have equally had lots of fun on other consoles! Fanboyism is just ridiculous man. Negative comparison is the cause for killjoy!

 

I saw your opinion of Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild vs Horizon: Zero Dawn, I dont know if you 'mainly' did that video in a hurry just for a cool video idea, or/and because you're on pleasant terms with the N, but dude.... you know we're boys but I feel you were a lil biased my man haha just a bit my dude. You made some magnificent points though.

 

For starters, to my knowledge, you haven't even got passed the opening of the game yet, so it's very unfair to compare that little segment with a full-fledged completed game experience.

And second off, I feel like you defined 'gameplay' (climbing mountains/trees, cutting trees) the same as 'openworldness', thus giving Zelda 2 points.

 

Please consider this my dude....

 

Graphics

Zelda has a beautiful art style, but the level of the quality in the visual graphics in Horizon crushes Zelda. BoTW was intentioned for Wii u, that's why it looks super inferior to games such as Seasons of Heaven which is intentioned for consoles such as Switch, PC etc.Horizon gets the point hands down! 1-0

 

Gameplay

Dude I see you be playing both games hahaha and dude honestly you play in a linear and simple-minded fashion (not that anything's wrong with that), but my point is that in both games there are multiple ways to approach combat, I've had my own ideas aswell as seeing plenty of gameplay videos! And because you haven't yet discovered different creative ways to take down enemies in Horizon, you are judging from the slow stealthy method you keep resorting to, thus again giving Zelda a misguided score.

Dont get me wrong, Zelda has lots of ways (and creative/fun ways), like the lightning striking the metal weapon, or the bees attacking enemies, or home-running incoming rocks back at the enemy lol etc etc. However... Zelda employs those ideas from other games such as Assasin's Creed: Black Flag (lightning hitting ship), the bees attacking enemy (haha you know the game we spoke about last time), redirecting enemy projectiles (previous Zelda games, 3D Mario games and so on) etc etc. Nothing new here. And how often are bees and lightning around haha? But great all the same for combining all the awesome detail into the one game!

BUT.... the approaches in Horizon are amazing because the intelligence in A.I of the enemies which could be used to your advantage such as distraction while they inspect a fallen comerade or while they search out for intruders and so on. This far surpasses Zelda's A.I hands down.*At the very least I'd give them both a point. 2-1 to Horizon.

 

Story

It has to be said -- they're generally identical lol. Machines that has been corrupted thus disturbing the peace, so the hero/heroine needs to act as the peace-bringer. Just that Zelda is under a kinda anime/toon-style format, whereas Horizon is under a realistic/medieval-style format. They both do it good, none of them are groundbreaking in all of video game or movie history haha so I guess I'll give them both a point again. If I were to go deep, it prob would be given to Horizon for the level of story-telling and the way it unfolds throughout gameplay, the voice acting, cut-scenes -- all that jazz. But on average for fun, just basically throw them both a point my boi! So 3-1 to Horizon.

 

Openworldness

Dude, listen, you need to be openminded with openworlds or anything in life haha. Games creatively try various things, art is diverse! And I guess there are cons and pros to various methods! Consider this.... Horizon's 'beginning' is linear for the creative concept of having an 'interactive learning' process to have fun while getting to grips with the basics, rather than simply having you read a huge explanatory document. The con is that gameplay is temporarily linear. The pros are that you have fun whilst learning and also live the progressive life of the character, feeling her growth and the connection with her father (it was touching feeling like a little daughter following her father across the beautiful fields xD).

Zelda is open for exploration from the getgo, but what exactly does it offer?.. Doodling around by chasing squirrels haha? Climbing mountains for what?.. Perhaps potentially finding arrows in a treasure chest? Is that really fun or 'very relevant'?

If... you could explore and say, bump into some hidden master who teaches you forbiddon magic or some cool skill, so you have a higher chance to defeat stronger enemies early in the game so that you can level up quicker/easier.... then THAT would be a sincere joy to do.

If you came across a tribe or kingdom with high surveilance, and you 'strategized' AND used 'stealth' to sneak passed security (similar to that little segment in Ocarina of Time in the Hyrule Castle area with the guards, elaborate the bouncing funk out of that idea!) to infiltrate to steal a forbiddon magic scroll or some traditional armour or weapon or something.... THAT would be a spontaneous joy which would be relevant to gameplay!

Even sidequests like meeting a random character from a village who had a loved one taken captive by such a kingdom/tribe with high security, and you had to break that person out of captivity and return him to that character to get a heart in return or something... THAT would be epic!

But just doodling around being a bit silly with bokoblins or whatever... come on dude haha you may aswell just get on with the story. So.... I would give this point to Horizon because I've seen some amazing things, such as crafting and sidequests, the way you randomly see a type of enemy attacking another type of enemy, the way you just see huge glorious machine just randomly walking around (and you can interact with it, climb up it and hack it and stuff)... the openworld in this game just has more relevant things going on, not just going into a random house for the hell of it haha so Horizon gets this point in my honest opinion. 4-1

Or should I be more thoughtful and split the point? Okay 4-2

 

Framerate

As long as framerate isn't severe so as to hinder gameplay then I'm not too fussed. But I take your same opinion that people are fault-finding every little thing even if it's a minor framerate drop. And I generally think that Horizon and Zelda are cool enough so I'd give them both a point. However, if for the sake of comparison (for point distribution purposes) we were to give the point to the game that technically suffers less from framerate issues, then as you said Horizon gets that point I guess. 5-2 to Horizon.

 

Combat

Dude... you know my stance on Zelda. Nintendo is known for having tight responsive controls across their games, so no doubt BoTW has that blessing. But in my opinion, Zelda's combat is very simplistic. Generally just repetitively smashing the attack button, jump back, side dodge, jump in and repeatedly press the attack button until the enemy is defeated. The illusion is that weapons break easily and enemies can take a whooping haha so the battle drags on super long. The A.I isn't smart in my opinion, the enemy robotically dodges simple attacks (if it identifies say a bomb in its path for a while, it 'may' walk around it). Other times, enemies like bokoblins will side dodge spontaneously, 'some of the time' probably dodging your attack 'accidentally.'

In Horizon, there is clearly smart programming in the enemy A.I, and fast intelligence too (quick reactive reflexes for *dodging our attacks for example). Combat in games such as Horizon and For Honour and maybe even some of the Assasin's Creed games, combat (especially with conventional controlpads) is taken to higher levels than what is commonly done. Yeah Zelda is good for using the gyroscrope sensors for bow & arrow aiming, but I think that if the developers refuse to commit to motion controls (perfecting Skyward Sword ideas like I've previously explained in other conversations), then they should make 'actual combat' a bit more technical on the conventional controlpad and also increase enemy A.I so that technical battles are 'also' strategic (not childsplay strategic, warrior swordplay kinda strategic haha!).

So Horizon wins in terms of 'actual combat' in my opinion. 6-2 to Horizon

 

Physics

Dude haha... again, we cant restrict the term 'physics' only to 'varying weights of weaponry', there are other aspects of physics such as solid obejects not phasing through other solid objects (Zelda gets a +1 for this because of its boomerang not phasing through walls for example. I haven't studied much of this in Horizon so I cant yet judge), enviornmental interactions (for example; fire from a torched piece of wood transfering onto leaves, trees, flowers, grass, enemies, clothes, curtain materials on display etc; wind direction influencing hair, grass, tree leaves, clothes etc and so on), unique persona movement animations (walking, running, climbing, attacking, gesturing, posing etc) and so forth.

I honestly dont quite know which of these 2 games is superior in most of the criterias within the physics department, so I'd prob award both games with a point, but you can make the necessary calculations to give the point to the one whom you think is more deserving. And please let us know! But for now you best believe it's 7-3 to Horizon.

 

Overall

I'd personally give the point to Zelda because, though this is on an objective basis (motivated by my own perception), Zelda is simply more imaginitive and charming in my opinion. Perhaps this is the advantage of fantastical games, the creativity can be played around with in unreal ways. Like the part in the Lost Woods with the mist and the sparkle particles, and the direction of the sparkle particles leading you to the legendary Master Sword, where Princess Zelda sealed it into the grounds before the Great Deku Tree a century ago, and the Hero of Time needs the Power of Courage to wield the blade or else he would fall to his death..... classic stuff! Small details which is just immersive. Mind you it could've been done more better (better cutscenes, voice acting, dialogue/scripts, more witty/challenging gameplay [like pressing a button super fast to remove the sword, like in Mario Party 4 when tapping the button super fast to free yourself from the slime, before your health fully depletes]), better visuals and so forth. But generally it was just sublime.*So overall, adding everything into the equation such as physics, combat and all that jazz -- for me, BoTW probably gets the point as it probably is more fun to play, which is what games are all about. That being said, if a game is too easy, it might not feel fun, so probably Horizon's technicality and compelling graphics (visuals and NPC A.I) might be more fun. But on average, generally, I'd prob give it to BoTW. A small fragment of my fanboyism may have influenced that decision, but hey, I've been as fair as possible.

 

So Horizon: Zero Dawn honestly wins with an owning 7:4

 

The lesson to be learnt here is that if, by sheer fanboyism, I just sunk into delusion and was biased by saying Nintendo's Zelda wins 7-0, or try to be smart by making it look sincere by making the victory 7:5, then Nintendo will feel confident that they never need to treat their fans to genuine awesomeness, because they'll know that we'll just accept any old software that is whipped up. And then we might all become delusional to worship such mediocrity as a masterpiece. None of which is healthy for the never-ending developing minds of human beings nor the advancement of the gaming industry.

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Well I'm sold.

 

 

What am I buying again?

 

You have terrible memory for somone who has been named such a numerical name by their mumma. :laughing:

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Fighting a Lynel is pretty terrifying tbf, even the bog standard red ones! Once you know how to beat them it's easier, but still :o

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Fighting a Lynel is pretty terrifying tbf, even the bog standard red ones! Once you know how to beat them it's easier, but still :o

 

Yeah, I beat a White maned Lynel yesterday but it took everything I had. I found another one today and decided it would be best to just leave it be lol

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http://uk.ign.com/articles/2017/03/17/the-legend-of-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-is-secretly-an-incredible-multiplayer-game

 

A nice write up about multiplayer in this single player game. Some choice quotes:

 

Breath of the Wild’s social success probably stems from its uncanny ability to make you feel like the things that happen in game are happening exclusively to you, on your save file. There are plenty of games that let you explore a world at your own pace, and a smaller handful that let you choose what order you want to approach main quests in, but very few that give you an overwhelming sense of ownership over a world like Breath of the Wild does, and that ownership of discovery constantly encourages us to share what we’ve found.

 

Breath of the Wild actively encourages experimentation, and lets us be the community of scientists, offering peer-reviews and building upon each other’s ideas, instead of telling us how the game should be played from the start.

 

It honestly might be the perfect combination of tools in a video game, given to anyone who wants to buy it, to promote conversation and discovery. In that, a single-player game has quickly become one of the best multiplayer experiences I’ve ever had, and I think I’ll remember the constant elation I’ve felt this month for the rest of my life.

Edited by Ronnie
Automerged Doublepost

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That's why I'm glad I didn't wait too long to get this. I fell I missed out quite a bit the first couple of weeks, but hearing people talk about their play through is a lot more engaging now. I'm left wondering what a lynel is.. and thinking maybe I don't want to know just now :D

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That's why I'm glad I didn't wait too long to get this. I fell I missed out quite a bit the first couple of weeks, but hearing people talk about their play through is a lot more engaging now. I'm left wondering what a lynel is.. and thinking maybe I don't want to know just now :D

 

You'll know when you see one!

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I saw something that looked big and... a bad idea to attack :D but I don't think it was a lynel. more like a giant bokoblin... any ideas what it may have been?

I found the step up from red bokoblins to blue one's pretty big, dropped a sheikah slate bomb or two and the blue bokoblin pretty much just shrugged it off and came right on at me!! I hate to imagine much stronger than that, but I would be surprised if there isn't. Actually climbing up that mountain on sunday I saw plenty of nasties that I suspect are far stronger!!

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I saw something that looked big and... a bad idea to attack :D but I don't think it was a lynel. more like a giant bokoblin... any ideas what it may have been?

I found the step up from red bokoblins to blue one's pretty big, dropped a sheikah slate bomb or two and the blue bokoblin pretty much just shrugged it off and came right on at me!! I hate to imagine much stronger than that, but I would be surprised if there isn't. Actually climbing up that mountain on sunday I saw plenty of nasties that I suspect are far stronger!!

Some enemies come in red, blue and black varieties, black being the hardest.

Moblins are bigger than Bokoblins, but you may have encountered a Hinox, which towers even over Moblins (which are roughly twice as tall as Bokoblins).

 

Hinoxes are pussies compared to (the much smaller) Lynels though.

 

Was practicing against a (red) Lynel yesterday (using proper tactics, no ancient arrows ;)). Wasn't focussing that hard, but couldn't beat it, and moved on to where I was actually going. I came close though, parrying his attacks was getting easier, so I should be able to take them on soon. Can you actually dodge his horizontal slash? Even in a video I watched where some guy literally beat a Lynel with a stick, he never dodges those attacks, only parried. Also annoying is that he sometimes slashes with both his weapons, for which the timing seems to be different. I also hear people about mounting a Lynel, but I never got the option, even when he was stunned.

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Hinoxes are good fun to attack, as long as you've a wide open space to do so!

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Hinoxes are good fun to attack, as long as you've a wide open space to do so!

 

I noticed the blue ones have shin guards made out of barrels they've stood in. I found out you can make them catch on fire by hitting it with a fireweapon, which makes him try and stomp it out, which of course gives you loads of time to attack him lol

 

The black Hinoxes have leather shinguard though, so it won't work on them.

 

Edit - Just found out they're made of metal not leather...so you can electrocute them!

Edited by Helmsly

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Speaking of Lynels wtf is up with them. Some of them have utterly insane attacks. Met one in the South West recently with a huge club that could take 12 or so hearts in one swing and I have 38 armour. They do way more than any proper boss I've met so far. One of these things could've taken over Hyrule by itself.

 

I could just make my way to the end of the game now but I'm determined to find the last fairy fountain. It'll probably turn out to be inside Death Mountain or the Castle, the only places I haven't been. Actually... I bet it's in DM, as a callback to OoT. Damn.

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I did my first Guardian yesterday. The Rito one. It was short and the boss wasn't too hard. Enjoyable all in all. More like a big set-piece than an actual dungeon.

 

Could someone explain to me what the number on the armour you wear means? I'm running around bare-chested with a combined armour rating of 10. And even though I'm topless I can run around in the frozen areas no problem, which amuses me endlessly.

 

 

Also, where the flying fuck is Hestu? I have about 25 seeds I need to trade in.

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