Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens

[EEVILMURRAY]

I have to say that the film does hold up well on a second viewing (went to see it again a few days ago).

Agree to a degree, mainly because I knew what was going to happen and nothing new was going to surprise/disappoint me. After reading the IMDb trivia after watching it the first time (a tradition I do after nearly every film I watch now) and random news articles, it was nice to notice some of the quirky things I missed first time/didn't know (ie Daniel Craig.)

 

However I only went to watch it a second time because I had to take the missus with me, who had been most displeased that I had been to see it without her - even though I hadn't exactly said I would go with her in the first place. The things I do for love.

But in this film, when the characters are so much more complex, he stands out a mile.

They're not really though.

 

Poe: Best Pilot. No other information given. Gives jacket away.

Finn: Bred in a lab. Complete pussy. Gets free jacket.

Rey: Freelance young Anakin Skywalker (in the sense that she messes with fucked up old machinery). Yes she has things unexplained, but things shrouded in mystery do not equal "complex".

 

Chewie: Raaaarrrghh.

Han Solo: Han Solo.

Princess General Leia: Doing the same thing even though it appeared to be abolished 30-or-whatever years ago - effectively pissing on the whole efforts of the original trilogy.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Agree to a degree, mainly because I knew what was going to happen and nothing new was going to surprise/disappoint me. After reading the IMDb trivia after watching it the first time (a tradition I do after nearly every film I watch now) and random news articles, it was nice to notice some of the quirky things I missed first time/didn't know (ie Daniel Craig.)

 

However I only went to watch it a second time because I had to take the missus with me, who had been most displeased that I had been to see it without her - even though I hadn't exactly said I would go with her in the first place. The things I do for love.

 

They're not really though.

 

Poe: Best Pilot. No other information given. Gives jacket away.

Finn: Bred in a lab. Complete pussy. Gets free jacket.

Rey: Freelance young Anakin Skywalker (in the sense that she messes with fucked up old machinery). Yes she has things unexplained, but things shrouded in mystery do not equal "complex".

 

Chewie: Raaaarrrghh.

Han Solo: Han Solo.

Princess General Leia: Doing the same thing even though it appeared to be abolished 30-or-whatever years ago - effectively pissing on the whole efforts of the original trilogy.

 

I guess it's all perspective.

 

Poe: Best pilot. Counted on by many in the rebellion. Stands up to interrogation and can withstand immense pressure. A leader. We don't know an awful lot about him except that he's respected and well-liked.

 

Finn: No family, bred to do one task and sometimes freezes in pressure situations. Doesn't even have a name, there's a whole slavery story there if you want to go down that route. Usually looks for the easiest way out and doesn't really want trouble; a strong parallel to Han in A New Hope. Is kind to those that has helped him and wants a purpose in life.

 

Rey: No family, a parallel to Finn. Waits expectantly for her family to return, even though she probably knows that they won't be coming back. A scavenger, someone who holds her own on a planet that isn't hers against scum who pay her very little for her efforts and who try to rob and attack her. A quick learner, but also someone who learns to adapt, as she did to her powers when her senses to the force were "awakened"

 

Chewie: Loyal towards his friends and dependable. Considering that the character is one we can never understand, I think the films (this one in particular) does a great thing of making you feel for the character. Same sort of reason why Wall-E was so loved.

 

Han Solo: A father who has lost his son. A man afraid of his own demons and won't go back home to see his own wife/family...a stark contrast to the character we are left with in Return of the Jedi. He's a war veteran and, at times, appears to have had the life sucked out of him.

 

Leia: A leader, but an aged one. Weakened by the loss of Han and her son, but still has the power to gather troops together and is dependable in must-win situations.

 

At least, that's what I think. Although the film did a great job with the new characters, they did an awesome job with Leia and Han, imo.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Taking one just as an example.

Poe: Best pilot. Counted on by many in the rebellion. Stands up to interrogation and can withstand immense pressure. A leader. We don't know an awful lot about him except that he's respected and well-liked.

You could assume the same about Admiral Ackbar who has spent little time in the film series (except the pilot bit [although to get to such a rank he must have some semblance of piloting skills] and the interrogation bit [which Poe failed at], because it hasn't been attempted against him yet). That doesn't make him a complex character.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Taking one just as an example.

 

You could assume the same about Admiral Ackbar who has spent little time in the film series (except the pilot bit [although to get to such a rank he must have some semblance of piloting skills] and the interrogation bit [which Poe failed at], because it hasn't been attempted against him yet). That doesn't make him a complex character.

 

I never said Poe was a complex character. I only elaborated on the characters that you mentioned. The complex characters were the new ones introduced: Finn, Rey and Kylo Ren. I'd also argue that they added more depth to Han and Leia, which I touched on at the end of that post.

[EEVILMURRAY]

The complex characters were the new ones introduced: Finn, Rey and Kylo Ren. I'd also argue that they added more depth to Han and Leia, which I touched on at the end of that post.

Poe wasn't a new character introduced?

 

I do agree your second point though. Han, Leia at al weren't really there to reinforce their own character development, it has already been firmly established, instead to aid the bringing in of the new crew. All that "handing over the baton" shizzle they keep mentioning.

 

I do hope Finn dies though. I don't think I can deal with the whole self-doubt thing before going balls deep with sucking up the courage to do the right thing at the very end. Vader did it perfectly. It doesn't need repeating by some shit-cleaning-Stormtrooper. CAN I GET A HELL YEAH.

[Daft]

Finally saw this the other day.

 

It's a bit all over the place. The characterisation was...the worst part of this for me. You can criticise the writing in the original three but the characterisation was on point, at least; those films did a lot with very little. TFA though, was just a non-starter; all the characters were in the right positions but they just weren't doing enough half the time.

 

For example, Hux was just a shit Grand Moff Tarkin – Peter Cushing did so much with so little, which sums up a lot of the original trilogy for me whereas TFA did very little with so much at its disposal.

 

It's actually really knocked my confidence in Abrams as a director. Still, better than Colin Trevorrow – I really hope Jurassic World was a product of studio interference because it was diabolical.

 

I had a pretty easy time dismantling the film but I really really enjoyed it. It doesn't do anything wrong for me, it just could have done quite a few things better. I'll happily sit through it again – I hope I get a bit more out of it – and I can't wait to see what the future brings.

[dwarf]

Still, better than Colin Trevorrow – I really hope Jurassic World was a product of studio interference because it was diabolical.

 

I think JW went through 3 or 4 different screenwriters - no wonder it didn't make a lick of sense.

[flameboy]

What do people think about Rogue One's release? I have been left wondering if it's a mistake. People are psyched for Star Wars right now and want answers to all the questions from Force Awakens and may turn up to Rogue One expecting such answers. Over the years we've grown accustomed to a few things Back to Back sequels airing one year after the next, the Marvel movies developing a yearly story over multiple franchises. So is it a mistake to now go backwards in a way that is extremely unlikely to shed any light on events way into the future. Is the fact it's not called Episode 8 enough to ensure understanding from the more casual movie goers?

 

Also we have the genuine worry of the prequel curse....argh. Well it's not far off now in reality.

Edited January 5, 2016 by flameboy

[Agent Gibbs]

What do people think about Rogue One's release? I have been left wondering if it's a mistake. People are psyched for Star Wars right now and want answers to all the questions from Force Awakens and may turn up to Rogue One expecting such answers. Over the years we've grown accustomed to a few things Back to Back sequels airing one year after the next, the Marvel movies developing a yearly story over multiple franchises. So is it a mistake to now go backwards in a way that is extremely unlikely to shed any light on events way into the future. Is the fact it's not called Episode 8 enough to ensure understanding from the more casual movie goers?

 

Also we have the genuine worry of the prequel curse....argh. Well it's not far off now in reality.

 

There is potential that it could introduce characters who are related to TFA - parents to Finn , Poe and/or Rey and have background to others such as that lady from the golden girls who's a thousand years old, it's highly likely that Max Von Sydow's character will be features to give him background and meaning

 

So I think it will tie in reasonably well, and I think Disney's marketing machine will ram it down our throats it's not a continuation so casual people won't go in expecting episode 8

[Cube]

There is potential that it could introduce characters who are related to TFA - parents to Finn , Poe and/or Rey and have background to others such as that lady from the golden girls who's a thousand years old, it's highly likely that Max Von Sydow's character will be features to give him background and meaning

 

Rey's parents will be revealed in the trilogy. I think the same will happen to Finn - they focused a bit too much on both of their parents for them to be revealed elsewhere.

 

Poe's parents were both in the rebellion, though, and were both at the Battle of Endor - his mum was an A-Wing pilot and his dad was one of the ground troopers on Endor, so they could appear elsewhere.

 

I think that Mads Mikkelsen will be playing a young Max von Sydow in Rogue One.

[EEVILMURRAY]

I think the same will happen to Finn - they focused a bit too much on both of their parents for them to be revealed elsewhere.

I did a search because I was going to refute your point (thought that Finn was home grown like a clone), realised I was wrong but came across this laughable piece of information:

 

"He was considered one of the group's best stormtroopers before he deserted"

 

and other ass-kissing history, but didn't Finn say Jakku was his first battle? Or d'yall think he was bullshitting and acting like a complete pussy throughout the film?

[Eddage]

I did a search because I was going to refute your point (thought that Finn was home grown like a clone), realised I was wrong but came across this laughable piece of information:

 

"He was considered one of the group's best stormtroopers before he deserted"

 

and other ass-kissing history, but didn't Finn say Jakku was his first battle? Or d'yall think he was bullshitting and acting like a complete pussy throughout the film?

 

It was probably his entire group's/unit's first battle, not just his and I imagine he was top of his unit in terms of simulations, etc. If you consider that before Jakku none of them had been in a live fire situation then it's not hard to see how someone who was so good during training/simulations could crumble when faced with the real thing.

[Cube]

It was probably his entire group's/unit's first battle, not just his and I imagine he was top of his unit in terms of simulations, etc. If you consider that before Jakku none of them had been in a live fire situation then it's not hard to see how someone who was so good during training/simulations could crumble when faced with the real thing.

 

Yes, he had top marks in lots of areas and did extremely well in simulations. He was considered the best stormtrooper in his unit, not in the whole army (although he was an extremely promising one). I should also note that the "group" he was in consisted of four people.

 

The only problems he had in simulations is that he kept helping a friend of his, who was slipping behind (and had to be rescued in a few simulations). This friend is the one that died at the start of the film.

[Daft]

I think JW went through 3 or 4 different screenwriters - no wonder it didn't make a lick of sense.

 

I really hope that was the issue. I'm ever so slightly more optimistic.

[Charlie]

Did anyone else think that the final battle was a bit disappointing? That's 3 films out of 7 that they've 'destroyed' a large planet shaped space station using only X-Wings (although there was a ground movement this time).

 

A little bit of imagination there would've been nice.

 

 

[dazzybee]

I'm the same, Jurassic World was horrific, but Safety Not Guaranteed was amazing so there's something to be excited about.

[flameboy]

There is potential that it could introduce characters who are related to TFA - parents to Finn , Poe and/or Rey and have background to others such as that lady from the golden girls who's a thousand years old, it's highly likely that Max Von Sydow's character will be features to give him background and meaning

 

So I think it will tie in reasonably well, and I think Disney's marketing machine will ram it down our throats it's not a continuation so casual people won't go in expecting episode 8

 

Yeah you're right actually I'm sure plenty of the marketing will focus on the deathstar and what not your probably right. As for Max Von Sydow's character I'm not so sure I wonder if that will be fleshed out in the Aftermath novels but I'd love to be wrong. Apparently Aftermath completely fleshes out the Battle of Jakku even as far as naming ships that are on the planet.

 

I did a search because I was going to refute your point (thought that Finn was home grown like a clone), realised I was wrong but came across this laughable piece of information:

 

"He was considered one of the group's best stormtroopers before he deserted"

 

and other ass-kissing history, but didn't Finn say Jakku was his first battle? Or d'yall think he was bullshitting and acting like a complete pussy throughout the film?

 

This is how I think Finn's career went;

 

Sanitation on Starkiller -> stationed on Star Destroyer and trained in simulations -> attended first fight on Jakku and somehow snapped out of his conditioning

 

Apparently one of the young adult books does flesh out Finn's story to the point where some people thinking the "traitor" Stormtrooper may actually be a character within that fiction.

[somme]

Rogue One will have Vader in it surely? They'll be missing a trick if they leave him out. Also the set design, if on point, will look exactly like A New Hope.

 

Also if, after seeing a trailer or even a poster, a 'casual' movie fan is confused, then well, they deserve to be. It's really not that difficult.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Yes, he had top marks in lots of areas and did extremely well in simulations. He was considered the best stormtrooper in his unit, not in the whole army (although he was an extremely promising one). I should also note that the "group" he was in consisted of four people.

 

The only problems he had in simulations is that he kept helping a friend of his, who was slipping behind (and had to be rescued in a few simulations). This friend is the one that died at the start of the film.

All these delightful questions explained out of the film... Great job by those guys. Most of these other-media-things normally offer some form of backstory and "justification" for some things. Not explaining things which left gaping holes in the films.

 

One of my favourite comics was the Jedi Robot, who felt the Force and sacrificed himself. He was the droid with the "bad motivator" in the first film.

[Cube]

One of my favourite comics was the Jedi Robot, who felt the Force and sacrificed himself. He was the droid with the "bad motivator" in the first film.

 

You probably won't find crazy stuff like that in the new comics. Disney are being much more mindful of what gets made. Unlike the older stuff (which could always be rewritten), the comics, books and even rubbish mobile games (well, the stories from them) are as canon as the films.

[somme]

Well you didn't really need these extra tidbits for the story to make sense they just fill it out a bit if you care enough to read/watch other stuff from the universe.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Well you didn't really need these extra tidbits for the story to make sense they just fill it out a bit if you care enough to read/watch other stuff from the universe.

Exactly.

 

 

[Eddage]

Exactly.

 

 

 

I can't tell what you're complaining about anymore...

 

The fact that the characters weren't fleshed out more in the movie, or the fact that you have to read other stuff to get the backstory?

 

If we're just talking about Finn, his story was fine for the movie. It didn't need extra padding which would've made the movie drag. The fact you can then find out more is just a nice extra bonus - especially for people who can then have their theories confirmed.

[Ashley]

I imagine this year's film will tie into TFA (let's face it, Disney love universes at the moment) but it might have been clearer if they kept the episode title in marketing for TFA.

 

Oh well, one for Disney's marketing team to worry about!

[flameboy]

Rogue One will have Vader in it surely? They'll be missing a trick if they leave him out. Also the set design, if on point, will look exactly like A New Hope.

 

Also if, after seeing a trailer or even a poster, a 'casual' movie fan is confused, then well, they deserve to be. It's really not that difficult.

 

See there were rumours about Hayden Christensen having a fitting for the Vader suit....and some had thought this might be part of Force Awakens awhile back...that obviously came to nothing so perhaps this is it? I mean I've nothing against him being in the suit but as long as we don't have to see him with helmet off or if we do it's brief. I mean most Chewie in Force Awakens was not Peter Mayhew as he can barely walk.