Apple vs Samsung Trial

[Nintendohnut]

Can anyone find a link to quotes from the Jurors? I've seen a couple on certain websites, but is there a story somewhere in which all the comments are gathered together in one place?

 

You're saying that a grid layout of applications and a taskbar of quick links is something new though :/ Look at your desktop.

 

Did you look at the document I linked to in my post above? It was about more than just the grid system. Samsung went to great efforts to make the UI look as similar to the iPhone's as possible.

[Carmaiserik]

i still unable to understand the controversy between apple and Samsung. why Samsung paid 1 billion$ to apple its not recognizable?? can i get feedback's related to this topic and the major reason for taking away the rights of Samsung and providing it to apple

[Ashley]

Can anyone find a link to quotes from the Jurors? I've seen a couple on certain websites, but is there a story somewhere in which all the comments are gathered together in one place?

 

 

 

Did you look at the document I linked to in my post above? It was about more than just the grid system. Samsung went to great efforts to make the UI look as similar to the iPhone's as possible.

 

I tend to use The Verge. They have a section dedicated to the verdict (with the juror's quote I referenced here).

[Diageo]

Can anyone find a link to quotes from the Jurors? I've seen a couple on certain websites, but is there a story somewhere in which all the comments are gathered together in one place?

 

 

 

Did you look at the document I linked to in my post above? It was about more than just the grid system. Samsung went to great efforts to make the UI look as similar to the iPhone's as possible.

Did you read the whole thing? They looked at things that the iphone did right, and saw how the equivalent on their phones could be improved. There's a few where they point to problems on the iPhone too. I'm sure every company does this.

[Cube]

I'm pretty sure there's a similar Apple document, pointing out things like Android's notification system, voice recognition, front facing camera, shortcuts on lock screen, music controls on lock screen, multitasking and various other stuff.

[MoogleViper]

Benchmarking. Look it up.

[heroicjanitor]

I'm pretty sure there's a similar Apple document, pointing out things like Android's notification system, voice recognition, front facing camera, shortcuts on lock screen, music controls on lock screen, multitasking and various other stuff.

 

There is, I remember some iphone documents which were out to copy Sony stuff too I think, was even called a Jony. All companies see where others do minor things better and improve them.

[Nintendohnut]

I tend to use The Verge. They have a section dedicated to the verdict (with the juror's quote I referenced here).

 

Okay, so in that the juror is quoted as saying that the jury were pretty much in agreement on the first day of diliberations... why is that such a bad thing? They had all heard the evidence given, they went into the deliberation room to share their thoughts on the whole thing... Surely the fact that they all agreed almost immediately suggests that the evidence and cases made were much stronger for Apple, rather than suggesting that they were just shit at what they did?

 

The thing that got me was one of the jurors has said "we made up our mind on the first day". How was that been allowed to slide? He admitted he's (and implies everyone else) pretty much not bothered with week(s?) of the court case, basing it purely on one day. Yes, that day did have damning evidence but it wasn't the end. Many other things transpired following that, which should have been taken into consideration.

 

This is where the misunderstanding comes from, I think. According to the story on the Verge:

 

Now that the jury has made its decision in the Apple vs. Samsung trial, some members of the nine-person jury have spoken out about why they decided in favor of Apple. According to juror Manuel Ilagan, it was clear after the first day of deliberations that the jury was mostly in agreement. Speaking to CNet, Ilagan cited specific pieces of evidence that helped sway the decision Apple's way, including internal Samsung emails. "The e-mails that went back and forth from Samsung execs about the Apple features that they should incorporate into their devices was pretty damning to me," he explained. "It was clear there was infringement," he added.

 

That is referring to AFTER the trial, when the jury went away to deliberate. They were all in agreement on day one of the deliberations , not of the trial itself.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Nintendohnut
Automerged Doublepost

[MoogleViper]

Okay, so in that the juror is quoted as saying that the jury were pretty much in agreement on the first day of diliberations... why is that such a bad thing?

 

So you get accused of murder, and the jury decide that you're guilty on the first day, before you've had a chance to present your whole defence?

 

Hey, they're just really good at their job, right?

[Cube]

Well, it would have taken legal experts and people in the industry at least three days to fully understand the 700 questions. They skipped some of the questions because they were taking too long, they made mistakes, they didn't read the jury instructions.

[Nintendohnut]

Samsung have a great case on dismissing the Jury's ruling because of how quick they answered all 700 questions, and some comments from the jury including

 

- Some of the "someone else did them first" arguments/evidence was taking too long to decide on. So they skipped those parts.

- They made some mistakes, including $2 million they told Samsung to give Apple over a device that didn't infringe any patents (this, along with another mistake has been fixed).

- They didn't read the Jury instructions given to them.

- One of the jury said that the money amount was a "punishment". One of the things in the instructions was that any money decided would have to be what money Apple would have made if Samsung didn't infringe the patents and to not punish Samsung.

 

There are also other inconsistencies and comments from the jury. This thing is far from over.

 

Do you know where you read the bits I've picked out in bold? I'd like to find out more about this part of the case. I'm going to be writing a news story on this whole thing tomorrow and it needs to cover all the facts fairly, so it would be good if I can find out more about this bit of the case. At the moment everyone just seems to be focusing on the amount Samsung have to pay and the fact that they're (apparently) worrying, internally.

[Ashley]

Okay, so in that the juror is quoted as saying that the jury were pretty much in agreement on the first day of diliberations... why is that such a bad thing? They had all heard the evidence given, they went into the deliberation room to share their thoughts on the whole thing... Surely the fact that they all agreed almost immediately suggests that the evidence and cases made were much stronger for Apple, rather than suggesting that they were just shit at what they did?

 

 

 

This is where the misunderstanding comes from, I think. According to the story on the Verge:

 

 

 

That is referring to AFTER the trial, when the jury went away to deliberate. They were all in agreement on day one of the deliberations , not of the trial itself.

 

Ah fair enough, I misinterpreted the article as you pointed out

[MoogleViper]

I'm going to be writing a news story on this whole thing tomorrow and it needs to cover all the facts fairly,

 

Somehow I highly doubt that's going to happen.

[Nintendohnut]

So you get accused of murder, and the jury decide that you're guilty on the first day, before you've had a chance to present your whole defence?

 

Hey, they're just really good at their job, right?

 

No, I think you're misunderstanding as well. The deliberations took place after the entire trial had ended. Both sides had made their cases, all the evidence each way had been heard, and then the jury went and started to discuss/deliberate upon the trial. After the first day of the deliberations, they all seemed to have the same general idea.

 

In the situation you suggest, the jury would have made their decision after the prosecution had made their case, brought witnesses and evidence, and after my defence lawyer had done the same. Both sides had finished everything they had to say, and then deliberations started.

[Cube]

Do you know where you read the bits I've picked out in bold? I'd like to find out more about this part of the case. I'm going to be writing a news story on this whole thing tomorrow and it needs to cover all the facts fairly, so it would be good if I can find out more about this bit of the case. At the moment everyone just seems to be focusing on the amount Samsung have to pay and the fact that they're (apparently) worrying, internally.

 

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2012082510525390

[Nintendohnut]

Somehow I highly doubt that's going to happen.

 

I have a qualification from the National Council for the Training of Journalists that suggests you are wrong, but you are welcome to your opinion :wink:

[Ashley]

No, I think you're misunderstanding as well. The deliberations took place after the entire trial had ended. Both sides had made their cases, all the evidence each way had been heard, and then the jury went and started to discuss/deliberate upon the trial. After the first day of the deliberations, they all seemed to have the same general idea.

 

In the situation you suggest, the jury would have made their decision after the prosecution had made their case, brought witnesses and evidence, and after my defence lawyer had done the same. Both sides had finished everything they had to say, and then deliberations started.

 

Even so, they did have 700+ questions they were supposed to deliberate. A 'proper' job would have been to sit down, read them out, discuss them then note it down. It sounds like the foreman just went "so we're all in agreement, right?" and then they just breezed through the questions.

[Cube]

You write for an Apple magazine, so the editor would fire you if you wrote a fair article.

[Nintendohnut]

Even so, they did have 700+ questions they were supposed to deliberate. A 'proper' job would have been to sit down, read them out, discuss them then note it down. It sounds like the foreman just went "so we're all in agreement, right?" and then they just breezed through the questions.

 

Agreed. The article Cube just linked to is incredibly interesting and well worth a read in that regard. They basically said 'Oh, it breaks the design patent? Right, well let's flick through all the phones and tick off the ones that match the patent's description.' Pretty sure it shouldn't work like that.

 

You write for an Apple magazine, so the editor would fire you if you wrote a fair article.

 

...that's really not how it works at all. And I certainly couldn't be fired for writing an article that covered facts! In fact the only way I could really be fired for writing about this story is if I say something libellous about one company or the other, which is exactly why I'm trying to find out as much as I can now.

 

The article you've linked to shows that the jury didn't do their jobs properly, which means it's likely this isn't over. However, that also doesn't prove that Samsung did or didn't copy. We'll have to wait and see, I suppose, but there's a lot more to come here I'm sure.

 

One other thing - the design patent for the front of the iPhone wasn't for 'a black rectangle with rounded corners' - it was for the bezel design. The article you linked to talks about it a little, it's more about the area at the edge of the phone that doesn't receive touch inputs, and the silver border that's been on every iPhone. Admittedly, that's a pretty stupid patent to hold, however - it's not only Samsung that have made phones that look like that, so based on this decision Apple could just sue every single phone manufacturer, which is ridiculous.

[Cube]

Google have released a statement:

 

“The court of appeals will review both infringement and the validity of the patent claims. Most of these don’t relate to the core Android operating system, and several are being re-examined by the U.S. Patent Office. The mobile industry is moving fast and all players — including newcomers — are building upon ideas that have been around for decades. We work with our partners to give consumers innovative and affordable products, and we don’t want anything to limit that.”

 

The phones Apple want banning (multiple models of some of them)

 

 

[Nintendohnut]

Hmm, those ones all seem to break Apple's design patent based on the fact they have bezels that don't include touch-sensitive areas, and have a silver edge when looking at them front-on.

 

Now, I'm not saying the patent is correct (in fact I think the fact they can patent that is ridiculous), but I can see why the decision was reached. Ultimately this is a problem with the US patent system more than the jury I think.

 

I don't think we know which Apple want banning yet, do we? I thought the injunction hearing was set for September 20th. Or have they already announced the models they want banned?

 

EDIT: I see they have.

[Ashley]

Minor side note: all this talk of bezels just keeps getting this stuck in my head.

 

This motherfucker is the exact motherfucker I wanted!

Even with the bezel! This is the motherfucker I wanted

 

But yes, stupid thing to be allowed to be patented.

[MoogleViper]

[Nintendohnut]

Edited August 29, 2012 by Nintendohnut

[Cube]

So the girl is a whore who shows off her breasts to the teacher to get away with stuff, Samsung is checking out the breasts and Nokia is in distress?