Ronnie Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 What would make this game more Super Mario World 2? The interconnected map obviously is a good start. The map music from the SNES game applied to this would be next! But we'll probably just get the same old rehashed bland tunes from all the other NSMB games.
Retro_Link Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 The 2D style is aiming towards the simplicity that appeal to people from 5 yrs old to 85yrs old. The most detail we are ever going to get out of these series are background details, the simplicity of the characters will always be the same no matter how bad you want it to change. Nintendo will put all the stuff you want in a 3D mario, it's obvious they put more effort into the 3D mario cause it's aimed at a different audience (Mostly gamers and semi casuals) It's just the way things go. You don't think Nintendo could improve the 2D levels to the quality of the example I posted... the Mario Galaxy 2 2D sidescrolling sections... without the game loosing appeal? If anything I'd say the beauty of such environments, vibrancy and animation would appeal to people more. I don't understand, by that logic Kirby's Epic Yarn, or Donkey Kong Country Returns should never have happened!
killer kirby Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 You don't think Nintendo could improve the 2D levels to the quality of the example I posted... the Mario Galaxy 2 2D sidescrolling sections... without the game loosing appeal? You mean the dull boring beggining bit where it's all flat, yep, would really appeal if they just focus on graphics and just give us flat land. If anything I'd say the beauty of such environments, vibrancy and animation would appeal to people more. I don't understand, by that logic Kirby's Epic Yarn, or Donkey Kong Country Returns should never have happened! Let me know when Kirby Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns makes half the sales of what NSMB sells then perhaps I would listen. Also yeah lets make the next mario game like Super Mario World, that game was vibrant and full of creative level design Looks much better then this...
Retro_Link Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) You mean the dull boring beggining bit where it's all flat, yep, would really appeal if they just focus on graphics and just give us flat land. Let me know when Kirby Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns makes half the sales of what NSMB sells then perhaps I would listen. Also yeah lets make the next mario game like Super Mario World, that game was vibrant and full of creative level design Looks much better then this... Which in turn looks shit compared to this... My God. I'm not saying make a purely flat game based off the Intro from SMG2 am I!!! I'm talking about utilising the same style of beautiful visuals and backgrounds FOUND in that Intro... [You could take any examples from the 2D sections found in the Galaxy games]... with which to build the NSMB levels! And I've never once said make the next Mario look like SMW. Why would I have said that when I've been talking about wanting to see the games progress? Edited September 18, 2012 by Retro_Link
Ronnie Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 You mean the dull boring beggining bit where it's all flat, yep, would really appeal if they just focus on graphics and just give us flat land. Let me know when Kirby Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns makes half the sales of what NSMB sells then perhaps I would listen. Also yeah lets make the next mario game like Super Mario World, that game was vibrant and full of creative level design You've totally missed the point. Some cringeworthy statements there
Jamba Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 No they haven't. They have left the universe well alone and instead made a subset of the levels into these incredibly tightly scripted on-rails music levels. There is no other way to play them and they're not there on top of the standard levels, as they're part of the levels. and And if you absolutely want to look at it from the "extend the game" perspective, the challenge/rush mode in NSMBU is actually the addition that offers more content in comparison. That's because it adds content on top of the 80+/- levels you can expect from NSMBW, instead of taking out one level per world and changing the core mechanics invariably. You see I completely disagree with you here. You have said that these are independent levels or new sections in Rayman right? Good stuff to me as it means more content. My argument is that replaying the levels in a sped up mode will add very little for me to the point where I might not even bother. Looking at the on-rails section in shooters is a more than apt analogy. At the core of the shooter mechanics is moving and shooting. The on-rails sections are removing the running aspect in favor of the shooting. The core of Jump'n'Runs is jumping and running. They're removing the running aspect in favor of the jumping and synchronize it to the music. In both cases one of the core mechanics remains intact. So you agree with me that they use completely different mechanics? I don't even understand why you are arguing with me about this? I value the fact that I get different gameplay in the middle of the game and despite the fact that there is this change in gameplay, you are somehow saying that the core mechanics stay in tact in Rayman? That's just flat out incorrect. And yes, I think the musical levels in Rayman:L are far more exciting, but building your value argument on them simply doesn't work. Yes, thank you for your amazingly patronising take on judging the way I perceive value.
Zechs Merquise Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 I really like the look of NSMBU. It just looks like Mario - which I like. I'm pleased DKCR, NSMB and KEY all have different graphical styles. It'd be boring of they were all the same. I think this looks lovely and still retains the charm of the Mario games from the SNES and NES days.
Burny Posted September 22, 2012 Posted September 22, 2012 You have said that these are independent levels or new sections in Rayman right? Good stuff to me as it means more content. The bolded part is what I've been trying to argue about: variety does not equal content. Yes, thank you for your amazingly patronising take on judging the way I perceive value. I'm sure the next time you walk into the canteen and tell them you "don't think" their menu is "worth full price", as you've already had it several times before, they're going to be enchanted with the way you perceive value.
Dcubed Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) New trailer! Looks as fun as ever, even though the level designs don't really look mind blowingly original (though I did smile when I saw the Baby Yoshi eat the fire enemy and the waterfall mechanic looks fun). Still not a fan of the new theme though. Edited October 4, 2012 by Retro_Link
dazzybee Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Something Ive been thinking for a while with this series is it needs to change its reward system. I used to hunt down every coin and try and get every life I could; but now you get so any extra lives I'd even go as far to say I wouldn't even bother with extra levels - though the one up mushroom is iconic I suppose. But it's utterly meaningless. So much I don't really give a fuck about collecting coins, or the red coins, or the new utterly pointless blue coins. I have over 100 lives after a ocuple of hours play and you don't get anything else. I really feel more reward needs to be given collecting all the red coins, or coins in general. Maybe, like in mario games of old you get an additional STAR for collecting 100 coins per level (but make this hard!!) or something new entirely. It's changed the way I play mario games slightly and now just bomb through the level, when there is a lot of fun to be hard getting the coins; but there needs to be a point.
david.dakota Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 @dazzybee the problem is Nintendo are catering for both gamers like us who relish the challenge, but also people with barely any hand-eye co-ordination and deformed fingers; I think we all understand it'd be near impossible to balance. However, I've recently suggested to Lindsey that a way of trading lives to unlock meaningless features would be an excellent way to deal with the issue - perhaps unlocking new title screens etc. I'd happily trade my 1,000 lives for something. Back to the video: I feel underwhelmed - its again too similar to the previous versions and seems to have little creative flair to it - there are some little bits where you do think 'Ooo, thats new for a Mario game' but then soon realise that they're pretty established ideas in every other platformer series. I am sure it will be fun, and I suppose that's what counts, but it doesn't look like any effort has gone into it at all.
dazzybee Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 @dazzybee the problem is Nintendo are catering for both gamers like us who relish the challenge, but also people with barely any hand-eye co-ordination and deformed fingers; I think we all understand it'd be near impossible to balance. However, I've recently suggested to Lindsey that a way of trading lives to unlock meaningless features would be an excellent way to deal with the issue - perhaps unlocking new title screens etc. I'd happily trade my 1,000 lives for something. Yeah great, because then it gives them value and gives you a reason to actually collect coins and extra lives. It's like in NSMB 2, it has bit where if you stand somewhere more coins arrive, I quite like this IDEA, the blue coins are a nice IDEA, the problem is I couldn't give a fuck. But I want to. But I don't get a few coins? So what I don't need them. Even with NMSB 2's game mechanic it doesn't work, when you're collecting a million coins, missing the odd few is meaningless. It's the basic essence of drama. Stakes. Nintendo have lowered the stakes so much you don't care! Now I love the game, I'm talking about this apsect of it. Though don't even get me started on the bosses... Fuck me. NSMB2 is embarrassing. Those Rhinos. What is the point?!?!
Ronnie Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Underwhelmed. Looks like the same old thing we've had in the three previous games. Graphics that would have suited the Gamecube perfectly. Just lazy and lacking any creativity. Though don't even get me started on the bosses... Fuck me. NSMB2 is embarrassing. Those Rhinos. What is the point?!?! Yes they were piss easy to beat, but I LOVED seeing them return. Iconic boss from SMBW
Serebii Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 This is what happens when you go with 3D models over sprites. With sprites, you can be more artistic, the style can change much easier. With 3D models, you end up being more and more limited
Ville Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 Yes they were piss easy to beat, but I LOVED seeing them return. Iconic boss from SMBW Yes, good to see them again, but in every fucking subcastle? Talk about lazy...
Grazza Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 This is the New Super Mario Bros series all over... its strength is its weakness! They are very good - excellent, even - but they are basically the same formula polished to perfection, which means they are good every time, but there's not much chance of any of them becoming a "classic". For example, I love New Super Mario Bros 2 on the 3DS, but it supersedes the original DS game so much I have no regrets that I no longer own that. Not really a problem, but it does make me not bothered if I miss out on some of them. Considering this is not making me want a Wii U (not at current prices, anyway) and the fact the game itself will probably never have a price cut, I can see myself sticking to the handheld iterations.
dazzybee Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 It wouldn't take much to bring much more creativity in the design and enemies and especially the bosses. Or even some different styled levels. They just take the laziest way and completely unnecessary and anyone saying if it isn't broke, or this is just what mario is, you're a moron if you think this. There is no excuse. Yes they are good games, but this is mario we are talking about, and it should breed creativity.
lostmario Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 I don't know about everyone else but I thought the Super Mario Bros series on a HD console would look something like this: No doubt the game will be really fun but it looks like a HD remake of New Super Mario Bros Wii and nothing more.
Captain Falcon Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 This is what happens when you go with 3D models over sprites. With sprites, you can be more artistic, the style can change much easier. With 3D models, you end up being more and more limited Once upon a time when 3D was such a drain on resources and you had limited graphical instructions maybe but we are long past those days. There is nothing stopping anybody being just as artistic with a 3D model as they are with sprites. Secondly, shader routines can completely change the look and appearance of an entire game with even touching any of the existing assets. It will never really be easier... quicker, sure, since you probably are dealing with less assets but quick doesn't make for easy.... and not always then. What if you don't like an animation - you'd have to draw all the frames again whereas with 3D you just moving the bone mesh around until you happy with the new result. And that's a beauty of pic Lost - but even if you hate it, you can't deny a game that looked like that would on the surface appear to be of higher production values than this would seem.... regardless of whether you thought it was worth it.
Lens of Truth Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 I can't really side with the overwhelming disappointment. This was always on the cards to be what it is, a polished up HD cousin to the Wii version. Visually I think it's pleasing enough with hints of creativity here and there. For me, these games shouldn't be as good as they are - I originally didn't intend to get the 3DS version, but I've ended up have a load of fun with it and collecting everything. This looks better than NSMB2 by some distance, so it's a no-brainer. We'll have to wait for 3D Mario, Yoshi and Kirby before we see anything more daring. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Van Gogh World though..
nekunando Posted October 4, 2012 Posted October 4, 2012 NSMB 2, it has bit where if you stand somewhere more coins arrive, I quite like this IDEA.. I don't.. I actually hate that and didn't enjoy seeing it in the latest trailer for New Super Mario Bros U
Zechs Merquise Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I hope I never get so jaded that I don't look forward to a new home console 2D mario game! Whilst I think the pic that @lostmario posted up is gorgeous, it's basically someone's vision of Super Mario World on a more powerful machine. Nintendo have their vision - and it's to create an accessible game that can be loved by all. Afterall, 2D Mario games are an important birdge title that bring everyone to the party. I think NSMBu looks great. I love the look of it, I love the waterfall level especially, and I think it looks significantly different from the Wii version. I'll be getting it day one!
dazzybee Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 I hope I never get so jaded that I don't look forward to a new home console 2D mario game! Whilst I think the pic that @lostmario posted up is gorgeous, it's basically someone's vision of Super Mario World on a more powerful machine. Nintendo have their vision - and it's to create an accessible game that can be loved by all. Afterall, 2D Mario games are an important birdge title that bring everyone to the party. I think NSMBu looks great. I love the look of it, I love the waterfall level especially, and I think it looks significantly different from the Wii version. I'll be getting it day one! But it's not as simple as NIntendo have their vision and it needs to be accessible.... mario is always accessible. Them being more creative in their levels, enemies and bosses have nothing to do with accessibility. It's such a cheap get out. It's painful to see Nintendo being so uncreative with their games. And their most important games too. Now I hope this is amazing and has ingenius level design, visual design and bosses; but I'm not hopeful after playing NSMB 2 (though that was created by their new young members so you never know)
Burny Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 It's painful to see Nintendo being so uncreative with their games. And their most important games too. And there you have it: Their most important Mario games last generation were NSMB(W) whose whole hook was the "back to the basics" design.
david.dakota Posted October 5, 2012 Posted October 5, 2012 @Burny, I think @dazzybee means Mario in general. Poor fella is farmed out to prop up any old rubbish nowadays. The first NSMB was great, it was a nice little throwback, i'd even go so far to say that the Wii version showed promise but the lack of online is a major set back for the series; I actually think had NSMB2 and Wii had online components you'd forgive some of the weaker aspects to the games, but as it stands they're enjoyable but forgettable romps.
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