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DC Cinematic Universe Discussion

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55 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

 

Man, I'm very hyped for this, both trailers so far have been stellar. Going for a similar feel feel to Year One? Sign me the hell up! Even the marketing feels very distinct from the rest of the DC film trailers put out today, which I'm happy about, because I think some of their other stuff simply isn't up to snuff when you think of the quality of what's come before from DC. 

In a way I think the unfortunate mess with Affleck's Batman (not just his fault, of course) and the DC stuff in general over the last decade has lowered expectations to where just a decent take on Batman would be great. 

1 hour ago, Cube said:

Why do DC always skip too far ahead? We barely know this version of The Flash or Batman as neither have had their own film, we need a bigger build up to give the event a bit more meaning. 

I mean, they're doing Flashpoint with Keaton's Batman instead of a dedicated Flash movie after that movie reportedly had numerous script issues, but mainly because of the mess the earlier DC films have cornered them into. It's risky, because it's basically In Case of Emergency Hit This Big Red Button: The Movie in a pretty desperate attempt to course correct. 

Them jumping to that point in the marketing has to be done because it's going to be a huge part of the film and their marketing strategy: bringing Keaton back to get fans onside, and to some extent soft resetting with Flashpoint to potentially explain a new Superman (if not just a different take on Superman from the one Cavill has had to portray so far) and some other changes in their cinematic universe. 

I'm much more nervous that this is a year out and that's all they had to show for The Flash. Whole production has been a mess, but yikes, likely reshoots and a very short tease doesn't exactly instill confidence! 

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3 hours ago, Cube said:

Why do DC always skip too far ahead? We barely know this version of The Flash or Batman as neither have had their own film, we need a bigger build up to give the event a bit more meaning. 

Because the guys making the decisions are retarded. Only able to plan for the short term. They see the Marvel successes, all the Avengers films, and they try to replicate it by immediately bringing the big guns, their equivalent.. Failing to understand you need to build hype with the smaller films before it. Avengers was the big hit, but was big because Iron Man, Hulk, Thor and Captain america came before it. But they see "Avengers == $$" so they bring out Batman vs Superman.

I'm not a comic guy. At all. Why do I like the Marvel films? it went like this:

Hulk? I know him, sure I'll watch it.
Iron man? Vaguely familiar, but seems cool, I'll give it a go.
Thor? Comicy version of greek myths? No thanks, hard pass.
Captain America? Seems dumb, no thanks.

.. Avengers? They all come together? Ok, I kind of want to watch that, and I'll give Captain America and Thor a chance afterall.

And it should have gone like that with DC, if they had any idea what they were doing.

Batman with Ben Affleck? Sure, he's cool, I'll watch that.
Superman? I'm not super into superman, I kind of forgot to watch this one.
Wonder Woman? Not super familiar, but she's super hot, so sure, why not.
Robot man? No.
Flash with Ezra Miller? Hmm, vaguely familiar with the Flash, I like Ezra Miller, so sure.

.. Oh they all come together? Ok cool, I'll watch that, and I'll catch up on the other films as well.

No one at DC knows how to build up to something. I'm now a huge fan of Marvel films, despite not having any interest in any of the comics. Since Avengers, I haven't missed a single one in the cinema. Are they all great? No, definitely not. But even the worst are still somewhat entertaining, and it's cool when they finally show up in other films like the Avengers.

I'm familiar enough with the Flash to know Flashpoint is a big thing.. Huge even. So that's ridiculous premise to start with, because what are they're going to do next? (we all know the answer, they'll reboot it next time with another actor).

And the DC universe in general, what remains of it anyway.. Hype is long lost (or to be precise, never gotten). I even forgot to watch Justice League, and with all the stuff I heard about it, I'm not sure I still want to. I may go see the Flash, or I may not, I'll decide when it's out. The sneakpreviews aren't doing it for me. I have no interest in Black Adam whatsoever, so I'll skip that. The Batman.. Ugh. I don't know. I like Batman, I like Robert Pattinson, but that trailer isn't doing it for me either, and I'm tired of all the DC rebooting stuff. And Joker was terrible.

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

They're pretty much the same as the countless versions we've seen before so no need? 🤷‍♂️

I have not seen a single thing of The Flash, except the bit in Batman vs Superman.

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Yeah but my point is people generally know the flash's deal; he runs fast. And then some of those people will know more details about his backstory but you can jump into a film about the flash knowing nothing if they do it well (if). 

I don't quite understand why all superhero films need to start with an origin story according to some because Marvel did it well. X-Men never did and it did well for a while (then got worse but not because of a lack of origin stories). And Marvel only started with lesser ones, rather than the big guns, because they were limited by what rights they still owned. They did a good job in building that franchise sure, but it's not the only way. DC films have been a mixed bag because of bad filmmaking and a lack of a coherent plan.

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Batman looks really awesome. I'm looking forward to watching that.

I couldn't stand looking at Ezra Miller in that "trailer". So when they finally showed something from the movie, it was so vague. Nothing of interest but will probably watch it as I generally like Flash as a character.

Black Adam - will catch it on streaming when it's avaiable there.

8 hours ago, Sméagol said:

Thor? Comicy version of greek myths? No thanks, hard pass.

Greek? :D Other than that, I agree with you. Either DC just needs to have films not being connected, or they need to build a universe far better.

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2 hours ago, MindFreak said:

I couldn't stand looking at Ezra Miller in that "trailer". So when they finally showed something from the movie, it was so vague. Nothing of interest but will probably watch it as I generally like Flash as a character.

"We don't have enough footage for a trailer, but see you next year" doesn't fill me with confidence. I'm not a fan of this version of Flash though so not sure I'll make an effort to see it.

14 hours ago, Cube said:

Why do DC always skip too far ahead? We barely know this version of The Flash or Batman as neither have had their own film, we need a bigger build up to give the event a bit more meaning. 

The (Flashpoint?) scene in Justice League doesn't make sense, there's no explanation, no build up. I doubt non-comic fans understood what it was about, I'm only vaguely aware from Injustice 2.

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10 hours ago, Ashley said:

Yeah but my point is people generally know the flash's deal; he runs fast. And then some of those people will know more details about his backstory but you can jump into a film about the flash knowing nothing if they do it well (if). 

Doesn't mean a current version of a character doesn't need a proper introduction. Doesn't need to be an origin story no, but prefarably it's a solo film with a good enough story. Wonder Woman googling some meta humans wasn't a proper introduction. We doneed to get to know the characters. So start with something easy, then build up. Again I forgot to watch Justice League, so don't know if Flash got some proper screentime there, but having Flashpoint as his first solo film isn't good. This is using Batman (and as I understand, Keaton's Batman even) as a crutch, to make a character they properly fucked up look interesting.

10 hours ago, Ashley said:

And Marvel only started with lesser ones, rather than the big guns, because they were limited by what rights they still owned. They did a good job in building that franchise sure, but it's not the only way. DC films have been a mixed bag because of bad filmmaking and a lack of a coherent plan.

No with Big guns I mean the actual first Avengers film. Sure, they were limited by what characters they could use, but it doesn't really matter. If they could use bigger characters like Spider-man right away, they would have had more success with the solo films from the start, but having them come together in an Avengers film was the plan. They would have build up hype regardless of which characters they chose, to some extent. I actually do think it's the only way to build a shared universe like the MCU. But you're right, there are a few other factors, Marvel has almost godly casting choices, although I don't actually think DC does much worse in that regard. But yeah, bad filmmaking is a problem. Though I suspect that's mostly due to studio medling. They don't have a good plan, but also abandon their failures way to quickly. At this point I seriously think it's too messed up anyway, and the only way to recover from this is to stop making universe films for at least 5 or even 10 years, and then try again from scratch. The potential is there, there's no reason they can't make it work as long as the people making the decisions think long term rather than short term. I would love to see a proper DC universe.

9 hours ago, MindFreak said:

Greek? :D Other than that, I agree with you. Either DC just needs to have films not being connected, or they need to build a universe far better.

I was too busy ranting. May also indicate I don't associate Thor with the myth he's based on at all. Probably a good thing.

Edit:

And those sneakpreviews look desperate. I think they're actually so bad they were better off not showing anything at all.

Edited by Sméagol

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I just don't get the "he needs a proper introduction and his own film isn't the place for it" angle. 

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17 minutes ago, Ashley said:

I just don't get the "he needs a proper introduction and his own film isn't the place for it" angle. 

Look, it can work, Black Panther in Civil War worked fine, because it made sense in the overall story. But The Flash's introduction in Batman vs Superman was just shit. And I have no expectations of his solo film being a good one either. I want to care about the character, probably being the most interesting character for me in the DC universe I don't know about.. But they haven't given me anything. Maybe in Justice League, but they didn't convince me hard enough to go watch that one.

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Maybe DC would have been served better by doing Solo movies first, who knows, but that wasn’t the reason why their Universe has failed to to take off like Marvel’s. Shite movies is why DC is lagging, and will continue to lag.
 

Also Ezra Miller is terrible casting. Want to give him a chance but he has no relation to the characters in the comics (Allen or West), and the jokey persona they’ve given him instead was insubstantial in a team up movie, let alone in a solo. 

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